9mm PCC opinions please

[chemcal]

anyone shooting one of these? I'm thinking about Ruger; pros/cons

[Model12Win]

The Hi-Point is well thought of an inexpensive. A 9mm carbine makes a sorry defensive weapon anyway so no need for more than a 10 round mag, neither. I'd get the Hi-Point

[Scorch]

The Ruger is in a different class than the Hi-Point carbine. It looks like a beefed up 10/22. It will accept Ruger, S&W or Glock mags (available in 30-rounders). It is designed for police work, so it is heavy duty. Having said that, it is also heavy. I shot one of the new PCCs a few months ago. For the money, I would opt for an AR (in some states that is not an option) or a good pistol (more user friendly).

[weblance]

Scorch beat me to the weight comment. I have 3 9mm PCCs, and all of them are lighter than the Ruger. The Ruger does get good comments from owners as far as its operating abilities. I would research what it takes to break it down and clean it. I have a CMMG AR-9, a Kel-Tec Sub2000, and a Just Right Carbine. The AR and the Keltec are a snap to clean, the JRC WAS a pain until I added the Quick Release buffer tube kit. Make sure whatever you buy, its easy to clean, because the 9mm blowback style that all these carbines utilize, run VERY dirty.

[TruthTellers]

Depends on what your use is. If it's plinking the Hi Point is great and cheap. If you want something more for home defense or property defense, the Ruger, Kel Tec, or a 9mm AR is better. Not saying that the Hi Point can't do it, but those others are better fit for the role.

The Beretta Cx4 is a good choice... if you have a Beretta Px4 pistol. Beretta is really shooting themselves in the foot not offering that carbine in other magazine options.

Personally, when it comes to 9mm, I'd rather have it in an AR with a 10 inch barrel than a rifle with a 16 inch barrel. Thanks to the NFA, rifles have to have 16 inch long barrels, which are longer than what modern powders in pistol cartridges need. With good drop in AR triggers and other parts being so available, it beats anything that Kel Tec or Ruger have to offer in the way of customization.

You can get a bare bones 9mm AR pistol from PSA for 550.

The Kel Tec is a nice, light rifle that folds up, that makes for a great rifle that you want to put in a backpack, a briefcase, under the car seat, etc, but once it's in firing configuration, it's not the most comfortable to shoot and the trigger sucks.

The Ruger is basically a takedown 10/22 in 9mm. Whatever use you have for a takedown 10/22 you now have available in 9mm.

A 9mm AR tho, you have bump stocks, binary triggers, pistol braces, drop in auto sears... it's the closest thing you can get to a submachine gun these days.

[M4BGRINGO]

I have a Ruger PC9, using it for competition, works great! Put a Sig Romeo5 dot on it, had aluminum spacers made to raise the stock sights up 1/2" so they co-witness with the red dot. Bought a few aftermarket pieces for it, but the muzzle brake was a waste. I used the Glock mag adapter, that is nice.

I also have a Beretta CX4, but in .40cal, sold the 9mm versions I had. The CX4 is a lot lighter and shorter than the Ruger, taking either of them apart to clean them isn't difficult to do, the CX4 is easier to maintain.

Very nice trigger on the Ruger though compared to the CX4.

[tahunua001]

pros
Ruger is very cheap.
can take either glock mags or SR series mags so if you own either of those types of handguns you have ammo and magazine compatibility with each other.
it's fairly compact so it is easy to pack on a hike, or use as a truck gun.

cons
It's new
it's ruger
it's a new ruger
a recall is probably 2 months away.
it's probably about to be recalled because most new rugers require recalls.
trigger sucks... like all PCCs.

I built myself a 9mm AR15. it's heavier than most other PCCs, but it's very accurate, very reliable, has a better trigger than most(still sucks), and since I've used it to successfully hunt deer, I can claim it's effective.

[JohnKSa]

Moving to semi-auto rifles.

My advice is to shoot at least one PCC before buying one. If you've never shot one, it might surprise you and it's best to be surprised before you spend your money in case you find the surprise unpleasant.

The Beretta Cx4 is a good choice... if you have a Beretta Px4 pistol. Beretta is really shooting themselves in the foot not offering that carbine in other magazine options.

Beretta offers conversion kits to allow CX4 carbines to take the Beretta 92/96 and Beretta 9000 series magazines in addition to the PX4 mags.

[TruthTellers]

^ But they're all Beretta mags, I was thinking more along the lines of Glock, S&W, etc. That's something I wish PCC makers would do, and I'm glad Ruger did it by offering a Glock adapter but they kind of had to if they wanted to make money on their PC9, but most won't make a carbine that uses pistol mags that aren't for THEIR pistols.

News flash: Not all handguns work for everyone. Someone, somewhere is crying because he can only shoot a H&K VP9 well and he can't find someone who makes a carbine that uses the VP9 mags. Won't someone make a carbine that uses VP9 mags to ease his pain?

Certainly not Beretta.

[JohnKSa]

It's pretty rare for any major gun manufacturer to make a proprietary firearm that takes accessories from another major gun manufacturer. Offhand, the Ruger carbine is the only example I can think of.

You do see smaller companies trying to cash in on very popular pistols by making carbines that take other manufacturer's mags, but even then, the mag selection is very limited.

For example, people who want a PCC that takes mags made by S&W, H&K, XD, Walther, FN, are pretty much out of luck.

Not all handguns work for everyone.

Interchangeability with a handgun one owns is only one reason to have a PCC that can be converted to take a variety of mags. Widely available, reasonably priced and proven mags is another reason--maybe even the most important one.

It is certainly true that if a person wants a PCC that takes mags for a pistol they own, they had better own one of a very few types of pistols or they're going to be disappointed.

[TruthTellers]

It is certainly true that if a person wants a PCC that takes mags for a pistol they own, they had better own one of a very few types of pistols or they're going to be disappointed.

Which is why I bought Glock and haven't looked back since. They're not perfect, but they're perfectly adequate.

[Don Dayacetah]

I have the Hi-Point 995TS, and the CX4.

While the 995 is a decent value for the money, it's consigned to plinking
based on mag issues, and dependability thereof.

For light weight, balance, dependability, ease of maintenance, and accuracy the CX4 is the go to.
While no doubt the Ruger may be a decent gun, Beretta has set the bar
rather high.

[jetinteriorguy]

I've been shooting my Just Right Carbine for six years now and love it. Check out their website, a lot of available options for both calibers and what type of mags they can use. They are modular so you can get the mag well of your choice any time and switch, and they use AR type triggers and stocks. Mine has been 100% reliable, and is built like a tank. If there was one thing that could be considered a negative is the fact they don't lock open after the last round is fired. One last thing, both the safety and bolt handle can be mounted on either side for whatever configuration you prefer. I've looked pretty close at all the various 9mm PCC's over the years and other than a decent AR version I haven't seen anything to make me switch from what I already have.

[MagnumWill]

I built an AR-9 pistol from a Quarter Circle 10 lower, with Colt SMG magazines. So far it's been great, and naturally gives you flexibility on a lot of things since it's an AR derivative.

But to John's point, you may be surprised. I was surprised that the recoil (to me) feels almost identical to 5.56. Other than that, I've been pretty impressed. I'm going to try it suppressed on Saturday, something it should do well with.

[weblance]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

For example, people who want a PCC that takes mags made by S&W, H&K, XD, Walther, FN, are pretty much out of luck.

Both the Kel-Tec Sub2000, and the Just Right Carbine have versions available in 9 and 40 that take S&W mags, and the Multi-Mag model Sub2000 can be easily adapted with a $13 factory mag catch to take mags from S&W, Beretta, CZ, Sig, and Canik

[pblanc]

Well, I own a Hi-Point TS995 9 mm PCC. I just ordered a Ruger PC Carbine from Kentucky Gun Co. on sale for just under $445.

I haven't shot the Beretta CX4 Storm carbine. Nearly everything I have heard about it has been good (I have never heard 100% good about any firearm) but they are kind of hard to find and considerably more expensive than the Ruger.

I have not shot the Ruger PCC either, but it has been out for a while and the reviews have been generally good. I have confidence in Ruger's customer service if I experience reliability issues with the carbine.

The Ruger appealed to me primarily because it accepts Glock 9 mm double stack magazines which are widely available in a variety of capacities, and are decently priced. I doubt I will get a whole lot out of the take-down feature, but I could be wrong. It will make storage a bit more convenient. The Ruger is a little over 1/2 lb heavier than the TS995 which I don't expect to be a big issue. Heavier rifles are often easier to shoot freehand. I also think I will like the adjustable length of pull feature of the Ruger stock. I often have to put butt stock recoil pads or spacers on long guns to increase the LOP.

Regarding the TS995 I will agree that it is fun to shoot and it is significantly less expensive than the Ruger PCC. It is also quite reasonably accurate when it works, which is not always IME. I have had feed issues with mine which I think are primarily magazine-related. Unfortunately, with that carbine you are largely stuck with 10 round, single-stack Hi-Point magazines, which I have found are hit and miss. The feed lip geometry is not consistent and I have had to send at least one magazine back and work on the feed lips on a second. Rounds tend to nose dive in those magazines to a variable degree magazine-to-magazine. Red Ball does make a workable 20 round magazine but it has a weird configuration and sticks way out below the pistol grip.

Although the magazine limitation is the biggest gripe I have with the TS995, there are some other things about it I really don't care for. The design is pretty crude. The charging handle is basically a bolt that looks like it came from Home Depot with a little aluminum collar around it. It is always unscrewing itself. Unfortunately, you have to remove it to field strip the carbine so I am reluctant to use strong Loctite on it.

There are no sling loop studs on the TS995. You can buy some sling swivels from Hi-Point for it, but they mount only on the right hand of the carbine and they only accept a 1" diameter sling. Also, like the carbine, they are very crude in appearance and manufacture.

The charging handle on the TS995 is very awkward to use. The bolt does lock open on an empty magazine, but if you need to lock the bolt open after removing the magazine, you must try to pull it back, then maneuver it down into a cut out on the receiver. When locked in this cut out, pulling the charging handle back to release the bolt is also awkward. And the charging handle is on the left side and cannot be moved to the right. I prefer the charging handle to be on the right side. And unlike the Ruger, you cannot switch sides if you so desire.

The safety lever design on the TS995 is also crude. It is a thin piece of stamped metal on the left side of the receiver above the trigger. It is so thin, it is not easy for me to locate it quickly if I am not looking at it, and I cannot deactivate the safety without partially releasing my hand from the pistol grip. The Ruger utilizes the same type of cross-bolt safety as the 10/22 which I find easy and intuitive to use.

Oh, and the trigger on the TS995 is pretty bad. I don't know what the Ruger trigger is like, but if it is no worse than the stock 10/22 trigger, it will be better than that of the TS995. The reviews of the Ruger PC9 that I have read suggest that it should be much better than that of the TS995.

And field stripping the TS995 is a bit of a pain. If you have the correct little tool (another piece of stamped metal that comes with the gun) it is not horrible, but it is much more involved than the disassembly of any other firearm I own.

The TS995 sights are also quite crude in design and are a bit difficult to adjust to zero, but they are reasonably effective once zeroed.

I do not agree that a 9 mm pistol caliber carbine is an ineffective home defense weapon. If that were the case, all 9 mm pistols would be ineffective as well. Long guns are not as quick or easy to maneuver in close quarters as a handgun, but many people (including myself) shoot them much more accurately. And although a 9 mm is loud indoors, it is not even close to a Rem 223/5.56x45 or a 7.62x39.

But given the very limited magazine capacity of the TS995, the feed issues that I have experienced (probably due to poorly designed magazines), the awkward function of the safety lever and the charging handle, I would not consider the TS995 for personal defense, unless no other option was available.

I will wait until I have thoroughly tested the Ruger, but if it performs to my satisfaction, I will be selling my TS995.

[dean1818]

PCC

Plinking ? - Absolutely
Fun ? - Absolutely
This is enough

Home defense - MUCH Better Choices
Hunting - MUCH better choices

2 cents

[44 AMP]

My PCC in 9mm is a Calico.

While there is a lot of plastic, and the trigger is only "fair", there are several good features which include ambi safety in a ergonomic location, ejecting out the bottom, sights adjustable by hand (with clicks) adjustable stock with several positions, including fully collapsed, nothing sticking down so you can take a low prone position if needed, plus the fact that you can have 50 or 100 shots before needing to change magazines!


Not as common, or as cheap as the Hi-Point, but I consider mine money well spent.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by dean1818

PCC

Plinking ? - Absolutely
Fun ? - Absolutely
This is enough

Home defense - MUCH Better Choices
Hunting - MUCH better choices

2 cents

Totally disagree when it comes to home defense. Rifles are way too loud for the task and overpenetration is a big concern, but a pistol carbine with its higher velocity will make hollow points expand much more and cause penetration to decrease, which is a good thing for inside a dwelling.

Shotguns have a lot of recoil and you have to account for every pellet.

Carbines are great for home defense. Handguns are still king, but if you can't shoot handguns well or can't have them where you live, a PCC is your next best option.

[pblanc]

In a recent review of the Ruger PC9 I just read, the reviewer chronoed a bunch of different ammunition. The 16" Ruger barrel was pushing 115 grain ammo at up to 1490 fps, 125 gain ammo at up to 1202 fps, and 147 grain at up to 1117 fps.

That is better than the performance of +P ammo in similar grain weights shot from a 3.5" pistol barrel and is starting to approach the performance of 357 SIG. And the longer barrel will make the report much less loud to the shooter.

[9x19]

I have three semi-auto PCCs, all 9mm, all AR pattern, two are Lone Wolf lowers, one is PSA. All perform well for me.

[Sharkbite]

Rifles are way too loud for the task and overpenetration is a big concern

A 223 rifle with proper SD ammo will penetrate less then a pistol bullet from
either a PCC or a handgun

[aimtrue]

I am absolutely satisfied and pleased with my Ruger9 PC Carbine for these reasons:
It is reliable.
It is accurate.
It is easy to disassemble for travel.
It is easy to maintain.
It is reasonably priced.

The fact that it allows for other pistol model magazines to be used is an added plus.

I purchased mine for recreational target shooting and for home defense replacing a Bernetta 12ga shotgun and Bushmaster XM-15.

After installing a Vortex Crossfire Red Dot Sight, SuperComp Muzzle Brake and bipod, zeroing was a cinch. Shots for effect at 75 yards were in the 10 ring.

Could not be happier with my purchase.

[pblanc]

That is some impressive shooting for 75 yards (it was yards, not feet, right?).

Just kidding. I hope mine shoots like that.

[aimtrue]

This carbine is a real shooter!