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Old August 24, 2020, 04:19 AM   #1
Xerovi
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scope or open sight for deer hunting

Do most people use a scope for deer hunting? I have a 7 mm rem mag with a scope but was thinking I might step down a notch and take my 7mm Mauser, but it does not have a scope. Thanks for advice.
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Old August 24, 2020, 08:18 AM   #2
7.62 man
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If you have a chance to shoot at a distance keep the scope.
If all you have is short distance shots change to open sights.
But if your eyes are bad like mine the scope is the only way to go.
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Old August 24, 2020, 10:35 AM   #3
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It all depends on you. For most of us of a certain age, iron sights are just not suitable.
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Old August 24, 2020, 11:44 AM   #4
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Have you shot the gun without the scope and hit the target in the kill zone? If yes, you don't need a scope. If no or even sometimes, then you need a scope.
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Old August 24, 2020, 01:20 PM   #5
jmr40
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A scope does everything better than iron sights. Close and far. The military doesn't even use irons anymore even for close combat. Just don't make the mistake of using a scope with too much magnification.

A variable with 1-3X on the low end is faster to get on target up close than iron sights. They are only a disadvantage when using too much magnification. Something with 4-6X on the upper end is enough magnification to hit big game farther than most people have the skills to shoot.

Most states allow shooting 30 minutes prior to sunrise until 30 minutes after sunset. Those 30 minute blocks are when most game animals are shot. Even at 10-15 yards you can't hit a deer if you can't see the sights. A scope makes shots during those times possible.

But, even with all of their advantages scopes just don't look right on traditional lever actions and traditional muzzle loaders so I think they have their place if nostalgia is important. And they can be very effective. In good light someone who knows how to shoot irons can be effective at surprisingly long range.

If you want to use your 7x57 and don't want to spend the money for a scope, then go for it. Just understand there are no advantages to using the irons, and some disadvantages.
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Old August 24, 2020, 04:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmr40
The military doesn't even use irons anymore even for close combat. 
This is not true, I retired from the Army in 2017 and BRM (Basic Rifle Marksmanship) is still done with sights. Did we have optics? Yes we did, we had ACOG scopes, Aim Point red dots, and a whole lot of different Night Vision optics. However, qualifying was always done with good old iron sights. We also did a lot of MOUT/CQB training without optics.

The majority of the time we went out to train all the optics were left in the arms room, in my unit we also didn't have enough optics to equip every rifle. So while the military has optics we didn't use them exclusively. From what my buddies who are still in say this hasn't changed.
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Old August 24, 2020, 05:03 PM   #7
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The military doesn't even use irons anymore even for close combat.
I am fortunate to work with the local college ROTC cadre and teach out of their Gym. The cadets and officers all qualify at my local conservation club annually with old M16A2 rifles, and all have iron sights.

Back on track with this thread, JMR40 summarizes it all up nicely. There is no advantage to iron sights over the correct power scope when hunting.
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Old August 24, 2020, 06:43 PM   #8
reynolds357
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Originally Posted by Xerovi View Post
Do most people use a scope for deer hunting? I have a 7 mm rem mag with a scope but was thinking I might step down a notch and take my 7mm Mauser, but it does not have a scope. Thanks for advice.
Scopes seem to be much more popular than open sights for hunting. The average person can shoot a scope much more accurately than sights. Scopes offer a low light advantage as well.
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Old August 24, 2020, 07:41 PM   #9
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A scope does everything better than iron sights.
If obscuring peripheral vision is desirable , and thus "better" ......um ....OK. Also, I doubt any scope is faster than a ghost ring- The added weight would make handling slower, I would think. ... It'd have to raining/snowing REALLY hard to obscure irons ...... I've had fog, rain and snow make scopes unusable until wiped clear ....... absolute statements are always disprovable. Every sighting system has features and drawbacks. TANSTAAFL.

Last edited by jimbob86; August 24, 2020 at 08:37 PM.
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Old August 24, 2020, 08:34 PM   #10
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Depends where you hunt. If you can see deer from a distance a scope is a great accessory. If you are in a wooded area or high brush where a quick shot and short distance are very likely to happen iron sights are the way to go. If your sight is failing a little still, than a scope with a fixed power of of 1X or 3X is all you need. Pretty much a personal preference kind of thing.
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Old August 24, 2020, 08:37 PM   #11
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If I'm Still Hunting the bush. I preference open barrel sights as I've shot game on a full out run more than once using the point and shoot method. Can't do that, having a optic tube cloaking the sight plane. Such quick shooting skills are acquired with practice and more practice never a born with gift.
As I see. More hunters go home skunked year after year who's rifles are equipped with only a scope as opposed to those whom choose less powerful sporting firearms equipped with open barrel sight and they too having more than one hunting tactic to increase the odds in their favor. (Such hunters using open barrel sights make things happen) as oppose to those using a scope perched in the air waiting hour after hour for a chance.
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Old August 24, 2020, 08:48 PM   #12
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If I'm Still Hunting the bush. I preference open barrel sights as I've shot game on a full out run more than once using the point and shoot method. Can't do that, having a optic tube cloaking the sight plane. Such quick shooting skills are acquired with practice and more practice never a born with gift.
Last November, I shot two deer jumped from a plum thicket .... both on a dead run, with a 3-9x32 scoped 24"barreled 10+ pound bolt action rifle .... in less time than it took for you to read this ..... skills with the equipment that you are intimately familiar with are what matter at crunch time .... the particulars of the equipment much less so .... I see so many people that jump from one gun to another, to another, all in a vain effort to gain some small advantage, when we all know that the biggest variable in the system is the shooter ...... run one gun until it using it becomes automatic ....like walking or breathing .....
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Old August 24, 2020, 09:18 PM   #13
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At 127 yards, my 2019 deer looked small at 4x. If you can keep ALL shots in 6" at 200 yards, fine.
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Old August 25, 2020, 12:35 AM   #14
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answers and questions

Yes, it is my observation, now for many years, that most folks use a scope for deer hunting. Quite honestly, I cannot recall seeing another hunter, at a check station, public land or private club, hunting with iron sights (on a cartridge rifle) of any kind, in a long, long time.......maybe 20-30 years or more.

Up to a decade or so ago, I occasionally hunted with a GI M1 Garand, or iron sighted (leaf and blade) Remington Model 14, just for kicks. My eyes are to the point now that any optic is a real boon, and I would have to have very ideal circumstances and lots of time to break a shot with much certainty with either rifle. I'd likely need my glasses as well. I can still shoot my peep sighted Mossberg 44US or the Garand, especially with spectacles...in perfect light and lots of time to press off the shots.....not what one gets when hunting whitetails.

I doubt if even a ghost ring peep sight is as fast as a low powered scope. Note too that any decent scope will gather a bit of light and allow shots in dawn and dusk conditions where iron sights will be unusable. Also, the aperture of a peep can indeed be clogged with mud, sleet or snow, and be rendered unusable till cleared. I'd say that a peep sight poops out about 10 minutes before one looses shooting light with the proper scope rig. How that dovetails with your states hunting regs is another matter......

As far as hunters with open barrel sights "making things happen", I suppose that refers to human drives and traditional still / stalk hunting, perhaps even tracking. I'd agree that those skills are becoming lost arts, but I cannot equate some higher success rate to those that still practice them, howsoever few. A lot depends on circumstances. Hard to organize a drive if you are a lone wolf. Hard to still hunt if the cover is so darn thick you have to crawl through it. Hard to stalk or push public land if there are others present not part of your group that take deer out of your drive. There seems a veiled reference that hunters with open barrel sights are more successful than hunters using scopes and using stands. If legal, I think how one decides to hunt is their own business.

Exactly what are "open barrel sights" anyhow? Never heard it before, much less seen it in print. Open sights maybe?
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Old August 25, 2020, 01:26 AM   #15
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if the 1903a1 was capable of shooting an enemy soldier in the chest at 1200 yards with iron sights in the war, it can STILL shoot a deer in the chest at 200 yards with minimal fuss provided the shooter learns to shoot the rifle.

and the fact that the amount of factory rifles that ONLY come with scope mounting capability, dont mean scopes be better
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Old August 25, 2020, 07:04 AM   #16
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if the 1903a1 was capable of shooting an enemy soldier in the chest at 1200 yards with iron sights in the war, it can STILL shoot a deer in the chest at 200 yards with minimal fuss provided the shooter learns to shoot the rifle.

and the fact that the amount of factory rifles that ONLY come with scope mounting capability, dont mean scopes be better
A Richmond Rifle was capable of shooting a man in the chest at 1200 yards in the War Between The States. It would not be my choice for a hunting rifle today. Because something can do something does not mean it is ideal for the task. I could be wrong, but my take from O.P. was that he was looking for the easiest, most user friendly option. IMO, thats a scope.
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Old August 25, 2020, 04:49 PM   #17
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Trying to make shots with open sights in the low light of dusk and dawn {when deer are most active} is difficult past 50yds.
If your hunting from a treestand I'd say a good aperture sight would be just fine.
We have to use open sights on muzzleloaders here in Colorado, makes a modern in-line with all the improvements into a 50yd gun instead of a 150-200yd gun.
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Old August 25, 2020, 06:21 PM   #18
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I dont know how long your shots could be but if less than 150 or so, look around and find an old Weaver K4 or a 1.5-4.5 variable they made and go w/ that. Would be deadly at those ranges.

There are some good Weavers available. Try ebay.. Any other 4x would do just fine also.

I say 4x cause they have quite a wide field of view and the target is easier to pick up w/ 4x than a stronger scope.
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Old August 25, 2020, 06:23 PM   #19
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Just noticed the op is in London! He doesn't say if he's traveling here to hunt or if this is for hunting in his native England.
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Old August 25, 2020, 09:17 PM   #20
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if the 1903a1 was capable of shooting an enemy soldier in the chest at 1200 yards with iron sights in the war, it can STILL shoot a deer in the chest at 200 yards with minimal fuss provided the shooter learns to shoot the rifle.
The rifle wasn't the one making the shot ..... it was the user, and likely as not, one man in 10,000 couldn't make that shot consistently, in field conditions, under time pressure. Without proper corrective lenses, most people can't even SEE a man's chest at 3/4 of a mile, unless he's wearing bright colors contrasting to the colors to his background.
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Old August 26, 2020, 01:29 AM   #21
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long range

Formal, iron sight long range shooting (1000 yds) is done on a white target face, 6x6 FEET square, with an aiming black approaching 4 FEET in diameter. They are that size so you can see the darn things. As noted, seeing an enemy at that distance without a magnifying optic would be no small feat. Hitting one would be even more spectacular. The '06 cartridge can no doubt deliver a fatal blow at that range, but locating the target and hitting it with iron sights in combat from improvised positions would be VERY difficult. I've read accounts of the Garand being used to make such shots, in some instances, the enemy would foolishly expose themselves intentionally across wide rivers or open spaces at static positions along the line. Eventually somebody would hit the guy, but it might take several shots, or as much as a week. Charles Askins describes such shooting in his book "Unrepentant Sinner".

Sure, iron sights can work for deer, but doing so brings limitations. Some folks enjoy hunting vintage rifles and accept the handicaps irons bring with them as part of the challenge. Some folks like the cleaner lines and lighter weight of some iron sighted rifles. But I am steadfast in believing that the right scope contributes to getting all the accuracy from a rifle that can be obtained, overcomes vision and eye problems and allows one to shoot farther, under more varied conditions for longer periods of time.
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Old August 26, 2020, 04:06 AM   #22
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ive had many scopes fail me when it comes to low light gathering. have had 300$ scopes turn black before dusk.

but have a 20 year old barska that when the leaves are off the trees, is good for 20 minutes past sundown.
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Old August 26, 2020, 10:07 AM   #23
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ive had many scopes fail me when it comes to low light gathering. have had 300$ scopes turn black before dusk.

but have a 20 year old barska that when the leaves are off the trees, is good for 20 minutes past sundown.
At $300 you are usually not getting into bright glass.
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Old August 27, 2020, 12:09 AM   #24
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and that barska scope cost 130 on sale, originally 270.


also need to realize that MOST people are happy with 1" tube diameter and a 35mm objective lens. i feel 52mm objectives are SMALL.
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Old August 28, 2020, 09:01 AM   #25
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Have a post 64 M70, bought when I was working in WA state.
resently in MI and I load the 7MAG down to 7X57MM by using a differnt powder.

Presently the rifle is getting a barrel change as the orignal barrel require me to 'long" load tthe bullet over an 1/8th" longer thtan SAAMI, to engae the "leade" and get five shot to group on a picnic plate @ 100.

It has a scope and iron sights.
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