Is hunting just for the rich now? - Page 3

SfcMac · November 16, 2010, 04:19 PM

BlueTrain I merely offered a suggestion. If you are not bothered by the problem of where to hunt, then God Bless. Hunt where you will, and lots of luck

dodge · November 18, 2010, 07:32 AM

Here in Pa. there's a lot of public land on which you can hunt. State forest, national forest and the most interesting is game lands bought and paid for through the sale of hunting licenses. Leases for hunting on private land probably do exist but I'm not aware of it but you do need to ask permission before hunting there.

markj · November 18, 2010, 05:03 PM

I do have access to lots of private ground, just not where we used to hunt as that county went money hungrey. On one hand it is better for their community as the guys can afford that type of hunting also spend lots of cash at the eat um up joints, gas stations etc. Alas I am not of their income.
Pheasants forever also has some good benifits like club land you can hunt. There are 3 or 4 PF places close by my place, join up and a person can hunt them.

Iowa also has a lot of public land, there are 1700 acre fields close by that hold birds. Lots of places to hunt, not pen raised planted birds, but wild as the dickens birds that are cagy, smart.

Dads place was never posted when I was growin up in the 60s. We still hunt it, still find pheas and quail.

hunting wasnt about greed, farmers used to tell us where to hunt on their land. Would sit and visit for hours afterwards, just for the company. Tasted some of the best schnapps in an old farm house, he was in a wheel chair, I would sit and talk to him all afternoon just to hunt his place. Was 35 years ago and would like to have a good conversation with him once more. Young farmers got no time for talk, always in a hurry....

I still fix their tractors and farm trucks. Weld up broke things. Going hunting this weekend with my son.

youngunz4life · November 18, 2010, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Is hunting just for the rich now?

"Hell no."

TX Hunter · November 21, 2010, 01:11 PM

Im glad that I am on the other end of the state, We have the Angelina National Forrest, the Sabine National Forrest, The Davy Crocket National Forrest, Corps of engineer land, All open to walk in hunting, and several leases that cost less for the whole season, than a weekend hunt in West Texas.
I do believe that Trophy hunting is what has screwed it up for the average hunter, It comes down to who can pay more.
Im afraid that it wont get any better, You would be well served to just take out a loan, and buy yourself some land to hunt on.
Good luck.

hooligan1 · November 21, 2010, 02:45 PM

An old friend has contacted me about sharing some of the price of a 1300 acre lease for next year, it's in a good area, but hell money is still pretty tight at my ranch, but it is still an oppurtunity to put me an my huntin crew in some good private land.

Year in and year out we still manage to put the meat in the freezer on public ground!!

TMackey · November 21, 2010, 11:46 PM

Quote:

I wouldn't belong to any organization that would have me as a member.

It's been a looooong time since I heard that.

L_Killkenny · November 22, 2010, 10:38 AM

It really depends where you are at. Being a predator caller I constantly am hearing about guys talk about lack of land in Texas. Seem's odd but it's true. Here in Iowa we have a good bit of public land but to tell the truth my success rate for deer, pheasant, coon and coyote has been dismal on public land. When season comes it doesn't take long for hunters to push the game onto closed private land surrounding the public land. It's a matter of numbers. On the other hand, Nevada, Wy, Idaho, Montana, Wisc, etc etc have more than enough public land to legally hunt on. For now that is until the federal and state governments deem hunting unacceptable on the lands they control.

But I do see the concern in the OP. Timber land here in my part of the state has been gobbled up by developers during the housing boom. This not only closes off those lands but also invites suberbanites out to the country that really have no idea about hunting and country life in general. Lord forbid I hunt or trap the land adjacent to theirs. Don't get me started on these folks. In other parts of the state timber land has been bought up by rich hunters wanting their own private spot and by groups that are turning it into leased hunting land.

This is why I don't throw a blanket over poaching. If you look at the history of hunting in Europe, 90% of the population was/is unable to hunt legally because the land is controlled by only a few wealthy people. The poor souls left out had/have to poach to get their meat. Are we to that point here in the US? Not by a long shot. Will it get that way in the future. You're dang straight it will. Only a matter of time.

LK

golfballshootr · November 22, 2010, 12:03 PM

For the rich, gradually being turned that way, yes, I think so.

As Art pointed out, they had a lease for some time before some well-to-doers from Houston pooled their money and drove out the previous hunter(s).

I have seen it go that way from fishing private ponds as well, 30 years ago, all I had to do was, knock on a door and get to hunt or fish. Now some of those same ponds are secured by fishing clubs. Part of it does have to do with the decline in sheer respect that others have for someone's land. I've read the quads tearing up land, beer bottles and refuse in general. I too have witnessed the same type of behavior. Now I'm sure these same people like/love to hunt or fish, but their disregard for another person's property leaves that bitter taste in the mouth of the landowner. So, that landowner decides he would rather lease his property for an income and know who to "boot" from the land if the land is abused.

As for the extra income to repair fences and the like. I don't know if I can buy into that reasoning, because as a private landowner, I do not depend on others to help me with the cost of my own land. I feel that it is done as income in general, not maintenance income. But with it being their land, they are free to do with it as they see fit. Do I let other hunters hunt on our land? You dang right. But, there are requirements of mine that must be met. I want it to be a young hunter who has not gotten to hunt, or the adult that is just getting started. I think it is a wonderful thing for the fellowship and camaraderie to get to hunt together and see someone harvest their first turkey or deer. Now, with that said, I generally don't let these same individuals hunt after they have taken game because I want to extend that opportunity to another person such as them next year. Have I ever charged for a hunter? Nope.

It has become more and more everyday, a market that is driven by the "hunting" channels and the marketing wiles of the add-ons from the scent killers to the newest camo pattern, to the newest camera, so on and so forth. And with this marketing, it has made it more difficult to obtain good hunting land for many people. The good/bad of this is, it helps bring more people to the sport, but, it helps bring more people to the sport.

Some of it is the "trophy" idea. I know of some guys that go hunt fenced game to get 160" or better white tail, or 340" or better elk. They want those "horns" on the wall. This is not hunting. Then you have the "guided" hunts that cost from $1,800 to $2,500 fair chase, but beware, that if you happen to get lucky while hunting and get that big bruiser, some of these, (most), charge a trophy fee of so much an inch above 140-150. Now, we are really getting geared towards the rich in that aspect!! Come hunt, and if you happen to see ole' big boy, you can take him, for a "nominal" fee. This fee can extend up to an extra $8,000 on top of the initial fees!!! I don't think there are too many average income people that can afford to pay that.

I think it is a great thing when someone such as KraigWy helps out others. That is the sportsman. Cleaned, loaded their deer and gave away his own deer. And I assume, so forgive me, but I feel pretty good assuming so, he did that out of kindness, not looking for accolades.

And I do understand the legal concerns for landowners. Hate to say it, but, it has become a "sue happy" society and there are a great many people out there that look for a free dollar.

Just my thoughts...

Art Eatman · November 22, 2010, 12:34 PM

I may have gone over this elsewhere, but some facets to this: Seventy years ago, half the population either lived in the country or had parents or grandparents with farms or ranches.

Far fewer farms and ranches nowadays, with far fewer city people having any direct or familial connection with rural lands. And double the population of seventy years ago. Concentrated populations in cities; far fewer folks "out there" with family connections to towns.

The overhead for landowners is far higher now than it was even forty years ago. Ad valorem taxes, income taxes, costs of feed, seed, fertilizer and fuel.

Add all that up and it gets rough on a city fella's billfold.

Poodleshooter · November 22, 2010, 01:17 PM

Hunting isn't necessarily for the rich. It's for the landowners,and those wealthy enough to lease from the landowners.
Around here, most farms are either hunted by the farmer and his friends/relatives, or leased out to someone. There's no particular incentive to allow someone to hunt it.
Public land here is typically logged over garbage woods with no food potential. Deer and turkeys are usually found on the margins with farm property, or are found in very,very low density with no centralized food sources, making hunting them a difficult prospect for someone with a 40hour+ work week. I hunted public land for years in MD and VA before I realized that a small plot of tended clover/oats/beans brought in 10x as many deer as I ever saw in even the most fertile oak groves on public land. There are some nice deer way up in the hills,but your odds of ever seeing them are slim to none w/o weeks of scouting time available every year.

Tomas · November 22, 2010, 03:26 PM

I think the question we all may have to answer is "If I bought, was able to buy, or inherited, a nice big plot of primo land with a bunch of game on it, would I allow guys like you (and me) hunt it?"

Let's keep the question rhetorical...

Tom

Rembrandt · November 22, 2010, 08:05 PM

A couple of fellow Iowan's are under the impression we have ample public lands for hunting.....in reality, Iowa has the least amount of Public land of any state. Part of the reason for this is the high quality and value land has for crop production. It's fast becoming difficult for CRP land to compete income wise with crop prices at an all time high. Farmers are planting everything they can from ditch to ditch and fence to fence.

"Is Hunting for the Rich now?"......no, just that the cost to play has increased as land values and crops have. Smart hunters can beat the system by buying their own land and renting to farmers. There are also a number of tax advantages and landowner programs to help offset the investment. In the end you can hunt, own the land, and make money at the same time.

Art Eatman · November 23, 2010, 09:33 AM

Another way to put it: Economics 101. There are approximately 14 million deer hunters, nationwide. (I won't swear to that number, but I vaguely recall it from articles about the hunting population.)

A much higher percentage of them live in a city, now, compared to "the good old days". As I said before, far fewer with direct connections to rural hunting lands.

That means increased demand for hunting space on the part of these "outsiders". But there is no more hunting land, today, than in the past. Much has been lost, in fact, to some sort of development.

So, demand goes up, supply is in slight decline, the price must go up. Pick the commodity; Economics 101 always wins.

November 21, 2010, 02:45 PM	#56
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,585	An old friend has contacted me about sharing some of the price of a 1300 acre lease for next year, it's in a good area, but hell money is still pretty tight at my ranch, but it is still an oppurtunity to put me an my huntin crew in some good private land. Year in and year out we still manage to put the meat in the freezer on public ground!! __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry.

November 22, 2010, 10:38 AM	#58
L_Killkenny Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 2,676	It really depends where you are at. Being a predator caller I constantly am hearing about guys talk about lack of land in Texas. Seem's odd but it's true. Here in Iowa we have a good bit of public land but to tell the truth my success rate for deer, pheasant, coon and coyote has been dismal on public land. When season comes it doesn't take long for hunters to push the game onto closed private land surrounding the public land. It's a matter of numbers. On the other hand, Nevada, Wy, Idaho, Montana, Wisc, etc etc have more than enough public land to legally hunt on. For now that is until the federal and state governments deem hunting unacceptable on the lands they control. But I do see the concern in the OP. Timber land here in my part of the state has been gobbled up by developers during the housing boom. This not only closes off those lands but also invites suberbanites out to the country that really have no idea about hunting and country life in general. Lord forbid I hunt or trap the land adjacent to theirs. Don't get me started on these folks. In other parts of the state timber land has been bought up by rich hunters wanting their own private spot and by groups that are turning it into leased hunting land. This is why I don't throw a blanket over poaching. If you look at the history of hunting in Europe, 90% of the population was/is unable to hunt legally because the land is controlled by only a few wealthy people. The poor souls left out had/have to poach to get their meat. Are we to that point here in the US? Not by a long shot. Will it get that way in the future. You're dang straight it will. Only a matter of time. LK Last edited by L_Killkenny; November 22, 2010 at 10:48 AM.

November 16, 2010, 04:19 PM	#51
SfcMac Member Join Date: June 24, 2010 Posts: 66	BlueTrain I merely offered a suggestion. If you are not bothered by the problem of where to hunt, then God Bless. Hunt where you will, and lots of luck

November 18, 2010, 07:32 AM	#52
dodge Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2001 Location: ridgerunner from Northern PA Posts: 291	Here in Pa. there's a lot of public land on which you can hunt. State forest, national forest and the most interesting is game lands bought and paid for through the sale of hunting licenses. Leases for hunting on private land probably do exist but I'm not aware of it but you do need to ask permission before hunting there.

November 18, 2010, 05:03 PM	#53
markj Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2005 Location: Crescent Iowa Posts: 2,971	I do have access to lots of private ground, just not where we used to hunt as that county went money hungrey. On one hand it is better for their community as the guys can afford that type of hunting also spend lots of cash at the eat um up joints, gas stations etc. Alas I am not of their income. Pheasants forever also has some good benifits like club land you can hunt. There are 3 or 4 PF places close by my place, join up and a person can hunt them. Iowa also has a lot of public land, there are 1700 acre fields close by that hold birds. Lots of places to hunt, not pen raised planted birds, but wild as the dickens birds that are cagy, smart. Dads place was never posted when I was growin up in the 60s. We still hunt it, still find pheas and quail. hunting wasnt about greed, farmers used to tell us where to hunt on their land. Would sit and visit for hours afterwards, just for the company. Tasted some of the best schnapps in an old farm house, he was in a wheel chair, I would sit and talk to him all afternoon just to hunt his place. Was 35 years ago and would like to have a good conversation with him once more. Young farmers got no time for talk, always in a hurry.... I still fix their tractors and farm trucks. Weld up broke things. Going hunting this weekend with my son.

November 21, 2010, 01:11 PM	#55
TX Hunter Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2010 Location: East Texas USA Posts: 1,805	Im glad that I am on the other end of the state, We have the Angelina National Forrest, the Sabine National Forrest, The Davy Crocket National Forrest, Corps of engineer land, All open to walk in hunting, and several leases that cost less for the whole season, than a weekend hunt in West Texas. I do believe that Trophy hunting is what has screwed it up for the average hunter, It comes down to who can pay more. Im afraid that it wont get any better, You would be well served to just take out a loan, and buy yourself some land to hunt on. Good luck.

November 22, 2010, 12:03 PM	#59
golfballshootr Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2010 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 185	For the rich, gradually being turned that way, yes, I think so. As Art pointed out, they had a lease for some time before some well-to-doers from Houston pooled their money and drove out the previous hunter(s). I have seen it go that way from fishing private ponds as well, 30 years ago, all I had to do was, knock on a door and get to hunt or fish. Now some of those same ponds are secured by fishing clubs. Part of it does have to do with the decline in sheer respect that others have for someone's land. I've read the quads tearing up land, beer bottles and refuse in general. I too have witnessed the same type of behavior. Now I'm sure these same people like/love to hunt or fish, but their disregard for another person's property leaves that bitter taste in the mouth of the landowner. So, that landowner decides he would rather lease his property for an income and know who to "boot" from the land if the land is abused. As for the extra income to repair fences and the like. I don't know if I can buy into that reasoning, because as a private landowner, I do not depend on others to help me with the cost of my own land. I feel that it is done as income in general, not maintenance income. But with it being their land, they are free to do with it as they see fit. Do I let other hunters hunt on our land? You dang right. But, there are requirements of mine that must be met. I want it to be a young hunter who has not gotten to hunt, or the adult that is just getting started. I think it is a wonderful thing for the fellowship and camaraderie to get to hunt together and see someone harvest their first turkey or deer. Now, with that said, I generally don't let these same individuals hunt after they have taken game because I want to extend that opportunity to another person such as them next year. Have I ever charged for a hunter? Nope. It has become more and more everyday, a market that is driven by the "hunting" channels and the marketing wiles of the add-ons from the scent killers to the newest camo pattern, to the newest camera, so on and so forth. And with this marketing, it has made it more difficult to obtain good hunting land for many people. The good/bad of this is, it helps bring more people to the sport, but, it helps bring more people to the sport. Some of it is the "trophy" idea. I know of some guys that go hunt fenced game to get 160" or better white tail, or 340" or better elk. They want those "horns" on the wall. This is not hunting. Then you have the "guided" hunts that cost from $1,800 to $2,500 fair chase, but beware, that if you happen to get lucky while hunting and get that big bruiser, some of these, (most), charge a trophy fee of so much an inch above 140-150. Now, we are really getting geared towards the rich in that aspect!! Come hunt, and if you happen to see ole' big boy, you can take him, for a "nominal" fee. This fee can extend up to an extra $8,000 on top of the initial fees!!! I don't think there are too many average income people that can afford to pay that. I think it is a great thing when someone such as KraigWy helps out others. That is the sportsman. Cleaned, loaded their deer and gave away his own deer. And I assume, so forgive me, but I feel pretty good assuming so, he did that out of kindness, not looking for accolades. And I do understand the legal concerns for landowners. Hate to say it, but, it has become a "sue happy" society and there are a great many people out there that look for a free dollar. Just my thoughts...

November 22, 2010, 12:34 PM	#60
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	I may have gone over this elsewhere, but some facets to this: Seventy years ago, half the population either lived in the country or had parents or grandparents with farms or ranches. Far fewer farms and ranches nowadays, with far fewer city people having any direct or familial connection with rural lands. And double the population of seventy years ago. Concentrated populations in cities; far fewer folks "out there" with family connections to towns. The overhead for landowners is far higher now than it was even forty years ago. Ad valorem taxes, income taxes, costs of feed, seed, fertilizer and fuel. Add all that up and it gets rough on a city fella's billfold.

November 22, 2010, 01:17 PM	#61
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	Hunting isn't necessarily for the rich. It's for the landowners,and those wealthy enough to lease from the landowners. Around here, most farms are either hunted by the farmer and his friends/relatives, or leased out to someone. There's no particular incentive to allow someone to hunt it. Public land here is typically logged over garbage woods with no food potential. Deer and turkeys are usually found on the margins with farm property, or are found in very,very low density with no centralized food sources, making hunting them a difficult prospect for someone with a 40hour+ work week. I hunted public land for years in MD and VA before I realized that a small plot of tended clover/oats/beans brought in 10x as many deer as I ever saw in even the most fertile oak groves on public land. There are some nice deer way up in the hills,but your odds of ever seeing them are slim to none w/o weeks of scouting time available every year.

November 22, 2010, 03:26 PM	#62
Tomas Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 1999 Location: Blue State Posts: 441	I think the question we all may have to answer is "If I bought, was able to buy, or inherited, a nice big plot of primo land with a bunch of game on it, would I allow guys like you (and me) hunt it?" Let's keep the question rhetorical... Tom

November 22, 2010, 08:05 PM	#63
Rembrandt Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2002 Posts: 2,108	A couple of fellow Iowan's are under the impression we have ample public lands for hunting.....in reality, Iowa has the least amount of Public land of any state. Part of the reason for this is the high quality and value land has for crop production. It's fast becoming difficult for CRP land to compete income wise with crop prices at an all time high. Farmers are planting everything they can from ditch to ditch and fence to fence. "Is Hunting for the Rich now?"......no, just that the cost to play has increased as land values and crops have. Smart hunters can beat the system by buying their own land and renting to farmers. There are also a number of tax advantages and landowner programs to help offset the investment. In the end you can hunt, own the land, and make money at the same time.

November 23, 2010, 09:33 AM	#64
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Another way to put it: Economics 101. There are approximately 14 million deer hunters, nationwide. (I won't swear to that number, but I vaguely recall it from articles about the hunting population.) A much higher percentage of them live in a city, now, compared to "the good old days". As I said before, far fewer with direct connections to rural hunting lands. That means increased demand for hunting space on the part of these "outsiders". But there is no more hunting land, today, than in the past. Much has been lost, in fact, to some sort of development. So, demand goes up, supply is in slight decline, the price must go up. Pick the commodity; Economics 101 always wins.