.41 Special

jsummers · March 22, 2009, 09:08 PM

I cut down some cases to reload .41 Special loads. I'm having trouble figuring out how to get the RCBS decap/case mouth expander die adjusted. I can't seen to be able to adjust the expander plug, so that it can slightly "bell" the case mouth to accept the bullets. Whatever I try, the decap plunger assembly hits the inside bottom of the case, before the taper of the expander die can expand the case mouth. Any ideas ? Thnx

hivel37 · March 22, 2009, 10:56 PM

What do you have chambered in 41 spcl?

Maybe move the decap operation to the resizing die.

Sport45 · March 23, 2009, 01:03 AM

Get the upgrade kit from RCBS that puts the decapper in the sizing die. Or buy a universal decapping die and take the decapper out of your belling die.

Don't tell RCBS you're loading .41 special since there's really no such thing. Why are you cutting your .41mag brass down? Is the mouth starting to split and you're just trying to salvage the brass? The only advantage to the short brass I can think of would be better ejection for speed loading a DA revolver.

crowbeaner · March 24, 2009, 05:49 PM

I cheat a bit and use a 10mm expander so the case neck tension is as high as possible when using cast boolits. Just my humble $.02. CB.

jsummers · March 26, 2009, 08:25 PM

The .41 Special is simply a .41 Mag trimmed down to 44 special length (1.16). The ballistic research showed better results, better patterns for these low powered (plinking loads- 900fpm) in a shorter case. Read Rocky Raab & John Taffin on this new round. I have read plenty of folks shooting low powered rounds out of reg length .41 mag brass, but I wanted to try the "special" length loads and compare them to regular length (reduced power) loads myself. So I cut down 25 rounds to try it. You read my problem. I think the best suggestion is to remove the decapping pin & allow the bell/taper down a little lower in these shorter cases. I did talk to RCBS. At first "somebody" told me .41 Special was different dimensions and my reg .41 Mag dies wouldn't work. I got real technician who knew his job and recommended some procedures that he thought might work. RCBS doesn't have a taper die for this short round yet-maybe they never will. If it catches on, who knows. Thnx for the suggestions. Results -to follow.
jims

Sport45 · March 26, 2009, 10:14 PM

We knew what you meant by .41 special. It's just not an officially recognized round. You've identified the problem with it. They don't make dies in .41spcl/.41mag like they do for the .44 and .38 siblings. Another problem you'll find is many of the .41mag crimp/seating dies are too deep to let you crimp the shorter case, just like you can't crimp .38 special in a .357 dedicated crimp/seating die. I suppose you could grind the bottom of the .41mag die to work with the shorter cases. It would still work with the unaltered case.

For your particular problem you could order a Lee expander and factory crimp die from Midway for $25 or so. Since there's no decapping pin on the expander/funnel you should have no trouble belling the case. You may still have trouble crimping. A Lee Factory Crimp die might adjust down far enough to crimp the shorter case. If not you can grind the bottom down enough to make it work.

Lee .41Rem Mag at MidwayUSA

jsummers · March 27, 2009, 02:08 PM

After I got your post about a conversion kit, I talked to RCBS. Those guys are great. They sending me a "kit" to move the decap pin assembly to the sizer. They even concur-this will allow the .41 expander to go down to a depth to "bell" the 41 Special cases for me. Thnx for the tip. I anxiously await the arrival of the kit. I'll report back afterwards. regards-

jsummers · April 13, 2009, 01:31 PM

If anyone's keeping up, I received the RCBS conversion kit Sat April 10. I have an old 3 die straight wall RCBS die set. I put the new decapper assembly into the old # 1 die and now it full length resizes & decaps. I removed the decapper pin assembly from the # 2 expander die. The expander plug now is able to open up the case mouth sufficient to get the lead cast bullets to sit down in the mouth, with no problem. The old # 3 die (the one I had reduced in length 1/8 inch) seats the bullets and crimps the case fine. Still experimenting w/ exactly -how much crimp to use.
On Easter I put together the 1st test loads. First 10 reloads are 6.5 grs of unique, CCI #300 large pistol primers & a 210 gr cast Keith style bullet. Report back when the range opens.

SP Shop Foreman · April 13, 2009, 01:55 PM

You're still using a .41 mag revolver to shoot the shorter cartridges? Same cylinder length? Isn't that a lot of freebore?
I think I missed something.

SP

Sport45 · April 13, 2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

You're still using a .41 mag revolver to shoot the shorter cartridges? Same cylinder length? Isn't that a lot of freebore?
I think I missed something.

It makes sense if he's using the revolver for competition. The shorter "special" brass will eject more reliably for faster reloads.

It also makes sense for getting a few more loads out of brass that has started to show mouth splits. Otherwise, no reason I can see not to just load down the .41mag cartridge to whatever plinker power level you want.

jsummers · April 14, 2009, 07:19 PM

from "www.rockyraab.com". I quote
The simple answer is that the shorter, less powerful versions of magnum cartridges are more pleasant to shoot, easier on firearms, are often more accurate, and are more ballistically efficient at lower velocities. Less recoil, better accuracy and more shootable are three pretty powerful reasons for popularity. OK, but why not simply load reduced charges in the longer case? Because that approach doesn’t often work out as well as we’d hope. Small charges in large cases have been suspected to cause extreme pressures and even burst firearms. No one has definitively explained the phenomenon yet as far as I’m aware, but it has happened. It’s also quite easy to get double or even triple charges into a case. At best, such reduced loads often prove inconsistent, giving wide velocity variations and less-than-stellar accuracy. end quote
Anyway, I thought I'd try cutting down 25 rds & see what it's like. Alreay I like the idea of my plinking rds being visually shorter. No range data yet.

apr1775 · April 15, 2009, 09:13 AM

My question is why is this not a factory round. I think the lack of a 41spec is a big reason why the 41mag never got a popular as the 357mag or 44mag; you lack the ability to chamber the shorter/lighter special rounds. A short barrelled 41spec revolver would be my carry gun of choice.

jsummers · April 15, 2009, 07:51 PM

the answer to that very good question seems to be answered in thisTaffin Test. Interesting reading. enjoy-

http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt41spec.htm

ddixie884 · May 17, 2009, 01:04 AM

If you would like to have some real .41 spl brass contact me at [email protected].

MADISON · May 17, 2009, 10:46 AM

I have been loading the "Old Police Load" of a 210 grain Bullet with 8.0 grains of UNIQUE for many years.
I do not trim my cases!

ddixie884 · May 26, 2009, 12:59 AM

RAR ammunition, in Oklahoma City, is loading, and selling .41SPL. Reeds Ammunition & Research.

41special · May 26, 2009, 03:18 AM

Good choice !

Dare to be different !

March 22, 2009, 09:08 PM	#1
jsummers Member Join Date: March 11, 2009 Location: Palmer, AK. Posts: 16	.41 Special I cut down some cases to reload .41 Special loads. I'm having trouble figuring out how to get the RCBS decap/case mouth expander die adjusted. I can't seen to be able to adjust the expander plug, so that it can slightly "bell" the case mouth to accept the bullets. Whatever I try, the decap plunger assembly hits the inside bottom of the case, before the taper of the expander die can expand the case mouth. Any ideas ? Thnx

March 24, 2009, 05:49 PM	#4
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	I cheat a bit and use a 10mm expander so the case neck tension is as high as possible when using cast boolits. Just my humble $.02. CB. __________________ If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk. Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it. I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.

March 26, 2009, 08:25 PM	#5
jsummers Member Join Date: March 11, 2009 Location: Palmer, AK. Posts: 16	.41 Special The .41 Special is simply a .41 Mag trimmed down to 44 special length (1.16). The ballistic research showed better results, better patterns for these low powered (plinking loads- 900fpm) in a shorter case. Read Rocky Raab & John Taffin on this new round. I have read plenty of folks shooting low powered rounds out of reg length .41 mag brass, but I wanted to try the "special" length loads and compare them to regular length (reduced power) loads myself. So I cut down 25 rounds to try it. You read my problem. I think the best suggestion is to remove the decapping pin & allow the bell/taper down a little lower in these shorter cases. I did talk to RCBS. At first "somebody" told me .41 Special was different dimensions and my reg .41 Mag dies wouldn't work. I got real technician who knew his job and recommended some procedures that he thought might work. RCBS doesn't have a taper die for this short round yet-maybe they never will. If it catches on, who knows. Thnx for the suggestions. Results -to follow. jims

March 26, 2009, 10:14 PM	#6
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	We knew what you meant by .41 special. It's just not an officially recognized round. You've identified the problem with it. They don't make dies in .41spcl/.41mag like they do for the .44 and .38 siblings. Another problem you'll find is many of the .41mag crimp/seating dies are too deep to let you crimp the shorter case, just like you can't crimp .38 special in a .357 dedicated crimp/seating die. I suppose you could grind the bottom of the .41mag die to work with the shorter cases. It would still work with the unaltered case. For your particular problem you could order a Lee expander and factory crimp die from Midway for $25 or so. Since there's no decapping pin on the expander/funnel you should have no trouble belling the case. You may still have trouble crimping. A Lee Factory Crimp die might adjust down far enough to crimp the shorter case. If not you can grind the bottom down enough to make it work. Lee .41Rem Mag at MidwayUSA __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter. Last edited by Sport45; March 26, 2009 at 10:20 PM.

March 27, 2009, 02:08 PM	#7
jsummers Member Join Date: March 11, 2009 Location: Palmer, AK. Posts: 16	RCBS conversion After I got your post about a conversion kit, I talked to RCBS. Those guys are great. They sending me a "kit" to move the decap pin assembly to the sizer. They even concur-this will allow the .41 expander to go down to a depth to "bell" the 41 Special cases for me. Thnx for the tip. I anxiously await the arrival of the kit. I'll report back afterwards. regards-

March 22, 2009, 10:56 PM	#2
hivel37 Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2004 Location: Hill Country Posts: 522	What do you have chambered in 41 spcl? Maybe move the decap operation to the resizing die.

March 23, 2009, 01:03 AM	#3
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	Get the upgrade kit from RCBS that puts the decapper in the sizing die. Or buy a universal decapping die and take the decapper out of your belling die. Don't tell RCBS you're loading .41 special since there's really no such thing. Why are you cutting your .41mag brass down? Is the mouth starting to split and you're just trying to salvage the brass? The only advantage to the short brass I can think of would be better ejection for speed loading a DA revolver. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

April 13, 2009, 01:31 PM	#8
jsummers Member Join Date: March 11, 2009 Location: Palmer, AK. Posts: 16	.41 Special reloads If anyone's keeping up, I received the RCBS conversion kit Sat April 10. I have an old 3 die straight wall RCBS die set. I put the new decapper assembly into the old # 1 die and now it full length resizes & decaps. I removed the decapper pin assembly from the # 2 expander die. The expander plug now is able to open up the case mouth sufficient to get the lead cast bullets to sit down in the mouth, with no problem. The old # 3 die (the one I had reduced in length 1/8 inch) seats the bullets and crimps the case fine. Still experimenting w/ exactly -how much crimp to use. On Easter I put together the 1st test loads. First 10 reloads are 6.5 grs of unique, CCI #300 large pistol primers & a 210 gr cast Keith style bullet. Report back when the range opens.

April 13, 2009, 01:55 PM	#9
SP Shop Foreman Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: Montana Posts: 169	You're still using a .41 mag revolver to shoot the shorter cartridges? Same cylinder length? Isn't that a lot of freebore? I think I missed something. SP __________________ Latigo www.swissproductsllc.com

April 14, 2009, 07:19 PM	#11
jsummers Member Join Date: March 11, 2009 Location: Palmer, AK. Posts: 16	the simple answer from "www.rockyraab.com". I quote The simple answer is that the shorter, less powerful versions of magnum cartridges are more pleasant to shoot, easier on firearms, are often more accurate, and are more ballistically efficient at lower velocities. Less recoil, better accuracy and more shootable are three pretty powerful reasons for popularity. OK, but why not simply load reduced charges in the longer case? Because that approach doesn’t often work out as well as we’d hope. Small charges in large cases have been suspected to cause extreme pressures and even burst firearms. No one has definitively explained the phenomenon yet as far as I’m aware, but it has happened. It’s also quite easy to get double or even triple charges into a case. At best, such reduced loads often prove inconsistent, giving wide velocity variations and less-than-stellar accuracy. end quote Anyway, I thought I'd try cutting down 25 rds & see what it's like. Alreay I like the idea of my plinking rds being visually shorter. No range data yet. Last edited by jsummers; April 14, 2009 at 07:25 PM.

April 15, 2009, 09:13 AM	#12
apr1775 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 425	My question is why is this not a factory round. I think the lack of a 41spec is a big reason why the 41mag never got a popular as the 357mag or 44mag; you lack the ability to chamber the shorter/lighter special rounds. A short barrelled 41spec revolver would be my carry gun of choice.

April 15, 2009, 07:51 PM	#13
jsummers Member Join Date: March 11, 2009 Location: Palmer, AK. Posts: 16	Magnum then special the answer to that very good question seems to be answered in thisTaffin Test. Interesting reading. enjoy- http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt41spec.htm

May 17, 2009, 01:04 AM	#14
ddixie884 Junior Member Join Date: May 17, 2009 Location: Avery, Tx Posts: 8	Starline .41 special brass with proper headstamp If you would like to have some real .41 spl brass contact me at [email protected].

May 17, 2009, 10:46 AM	#15
MADISON Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 2,678	Trimming .41 Magnum Cases I have been loading the "Old Police Load" of a 210 grain Bullet with 8.0 grains of UNIQUE for many years. I do not trim my cases!

May 26, 2009, 12:59 AM	#16
ddixie884 Junior Member Join Date: May 17, 2009 Location: Avery, Tx Posts: 8	.41SPL loaded ammunition RAR ammunition, in Oklahoma City, is loading, and selling .41SPL. Reeds Ammunition & Research.

May 26, 2009, 03:18 AM	#17
41special Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 263	Good choice ! Dare to be different ! __________________ ___________________________________ An old west lawman once said when asked why he carried a .45, "because they don't make a .46" God created man, Sam Colt made them equal.