Also considering casting but...

[Swampman1]

I hear a lot of people mentioning wheel weights for casting.
1- Can WWs (once melted down) be ready for casting?
2- WWs are not easy to come by in my area, but what is considered a fair price if I should have to buy them from a local tire shop?
3- Normal reloading is taking up all my budget right now, so I don't have a hardness tester. Realistically, the only lead I'll be using is scrap lead. Could someone tell me what alloy is needed if I just have soft lead? (not sure the hardness). Linotype or Lyman #2? What percentage of either of these would I need to add to 10 lbs of soft lead?
4- I plan on reloading 44 magnum, but with a 44 special load.

I know very little about casting, so I hope I'm giving enough info, thanks.

[zxcvbob]

You can load soft lead in .44 Specials without any difficulty; so you don't really need to alloy anything. Worst case is you need to add a tiny bit of tin (lead-free solder) to get them to cast better.

[Chaz88]

Most of the people I know that cast straight WW use gas checks.

I cast two parts WW mixed with one part pure lead. I get my pure from old plumbers lead. That mixture is what my dad called a #2 alloy but I do not think it actually is.

[FrankenMauser]

I'm short on time, so I'll just hit one point real quick:

I don't have a hardness tester. I buy known alloys, or pay pennies on the dollar for unknown alloys. Usually, I have a pretty good idea of what the unknown alloy is, so it's easy to use as a 'filler' in other alloys (generally for low velocity plinking bullets).

But, if I do find myself needing some more precise hardness numbers, I send an ingot or three off to someone with a tester. They get a pound or three of free alloy, in exchange for telling me what the average hardness was.

[Beagle333]

Read this first. Re-read Chapter 3.
It'll answer 1000 of your questions, and we'll help you with the other two.

From Ingot to Target

[Swampman1]

Thanks for the input guys.

I cast two parts WW mixed with one part pure lead.

Chaz that's the answer I was looking for. Nice and simple. All I need is a ratio to go by.
Now can someone tell me what ratio of Lynotype or Lyman #2 (should I need to go that route), they use with pure lead? And which is better to use in alloying? Down the road I may try casting 9mm bullets. Thanks.

[m&p45acp10+1]

If you are using a Special pressure level load with a decent powder you can run straight wheel weight lead with no problem at all. If going to a high end magnum level then you will need gas checks.

I run up to 1300 FPS with straight clamp on wheel weight alloy in my .41 Mag loads using AA9 with no leading. I am using a Lee 210 grain SWC Tumble Lube mold. Most of what I run with them is a target load using Trail Boss. I get close to 1000 FPS with very slight felt recoil. I have to wait for Mrs. M&P to run out of ammo to get the gun back.

[zxcvbob]

You can use straight WW's in just about any pistol load, even magnums. Or you can cut it with soft lead (like watering down soup to make it go farther.) For light target loads, you might want to use straight soft lead, or soft lead with just a little WW's.

Don't mess with gas checks unless you have an actual problem to fix, not an imaginary problem.

If I recall correctly, Lyman #2 is half linotype and half pure lead.

[Chaz88]

I melt my WW and pure lead in separate batches outside in a big pot on a propane burner then pour it into muffin tins and mark them WW or PL. It works good for me because two WW and one PL muffin fills my lead pot just right. I then flux and pour.

Sometimes a little tin needs to be added to the pot but generally I do not need it.

[Swampman1]

Thanks for the great info guys. Good to know 44 specials can run on pure lead due to low velocities. Although I think I'd like to add WWs to the mix. And I guess it's just a matter of watching buildup in my barrel. Now part of the mystery is solved. I paid 70 cents per lb for scrap lead recently, would that be a fair price for WWs considering the metal clips attached? Finding free ones is proving to be difficult, if not impossible.

[m&p45acp10+1]

Swampman I pay $20 for a 5 gal. bucket of unsorted. I throw in a 12 pack of beer iced down in a 5 gal. bucket so that they remember to save more for me.

It is typical for me to get about 70% of the bucket of lead wheel weights. The rest is not castable, and trash. I save those for the places where they say they have to recycle them. I swap the rejects with cash, and beer. No one is the wiser, and the bad ones go away to the recycle plant.

[Mike / Tx]

I have paid between .50 and a dollar a pound delivered to my door for alloy. Mostly the latter but I figure it's to my front porch so it isn't a big deal. When I consider I drove around to every tire shop and metal scrap place and only ended up with half a bucket of weights, it totally beat the price of fuel and time spent looking.

I put $20 or so back from each check into a fun account. It goes for my shooting or fishing wants. I simply saved it up until I had enough to purchase some alloy and did so. After a couple of years of doing this every couple of months, I now have plenty to last for quite a while.

As mentioned you can run softer alloy up to a pretty steppin velocity without using gas checks, IF your size is proper and your lube is good. I only have a couple of bullets that take a GC and with them I am loading up in the 1500+fps range. While I could probably use an alloy that would take it, I like the accuracy I get with just plain clip on wheel weights. I tried some that were harder and simply couldn't get them to group as well.

With the softer alloy the GC will help some but it will not eliminate issue with a bad bore fit or an alloy that simply cannot hold up to the pressures. There is always a give and take.

For loads which are in the 20K pressure range and with velocities under around 1300fps you can do quite a lot with the softer alloy, but start pushing the envelope with plain based bullets you will quickly find out where your threshold will be. I loaded some up for my 41 magnum and after only 4 rounds I had a barrel full and those were only running in the lower to mid 1200fps range. However I knew going into it they might be a bit soft for the pressure so I only had to dismantle half a dozen or so.

Once you start off, just go with the basics and you will be fine. There are plenty of loads to play with and learn to look at what you have, and know real quick your going to need something different. If and when that time comes there are plenty of us who can usually get you headed down the right path pretty quick.

[10 Spot Terminator]

When buying used wheel weights from tire shops these days you need to be aware that an ever increasing amount of unuseable weights made from zinc, steel and other metals are showing up on the market . You need to adjust your payment accordingly and plan on spending quite a bit of your time sorting these weights to get what you need . My last yield of useable lead out of (2) 5 gallon buckets was only 65% and took appx 4 hours to sort them out . By the time you figure what your time is worth and how much you actually saved doing this after you include the time and cost of smelting and fluxing you may find it cheaper to buy direct from the metal vendors . Just smelt and cast .

10 Spot

[Swampman1]

Swampman I pay $20 for a 5 gal. bucket of unsorted. I throw in a 12 pack of beer iced down in a 5 gal. bucket so that they remember to save more for me.
It is typical for me to get about 70% of the bucket of lead wheel weights.

Thanks. I just picked up a bucket of WWs for $30. A guy at the tire shop tipped me off that they just dropped off a bucket at the scrap yard the day before. It was a little over half full. After sorting out the junk, I ended up with right at 50 lbs of WWs. Although I netted about 76% good WWs, you definitely got the better price. Of course I suppose I can deduct the $10 for the beer that I didn't supply. Maybe next time I can eliminate the middle man and get them cheaper.
On a side note; I can usually tell by dropping them on concrete, the ones that are zinc. However, sometimes it's not that distinctive. Do the zinc ones have some sort of markings that would differentiate them from the lead ones?

[Swampman1]

By the time you figure what your time is worth and how much you actually saved doing this after you include the time and cost of smelting and fluxing you may find it cheaper to buy direct from the metal vendors . Just smelt and cast

Thanks 10spot. If that happens, what to you recommend? I know a lot of people use Lyman #2 with soft lead.

[zxcvbob]

On a side note; I can usually tell by dropping them on concrete, the ones that are zinc. However, sometimes it's not that distinctive. Do the zinc ones have some sort of markings that would differentiate them from the lead ones?

You want to pick out any that are marked "Zn" (zinc) or "Fe" (steel). Some will still slip by, so heat everything slowly so you don't get a hotspot at the bottom of the pot that might melt a zinc weight. All the trash will float to the top when you get over about 600° and give it a stir.

There are some lead weights that don't look or feel like lead, "AL-MC" for example. You don't want to throw those out, they are good ones.

[Mike / Tx]

Do the zinc ones have some sort of markings that would differentiate them from the lead ones?

This is about as good as it gets for a guide to what is what,
Guide-to-Hand-Sorting-Wheel-Weights

On a side note to that. You mentioned purchasing alloy. I began with a half bucket of WW's. After that I started hunting and scrounging and ended up getting about three buckets combined from a good friend and some from tire shops. While it helped, and I DO still have some of that original alloy and weights, I have also added to that several hundred pounds of purchased alloy.

If you sign up over on Castboolits or if you like that auction site by the bay, then you can really pick up some fast if you shop it out. If you watch for folks selling WW and range lead alloy you will end up with plenty of great casting alloy that has usually already been smelted into ingots. This means that all that is needed by you is to smelt it into what ever alloy you need and usually flux it another time when you do. Some needs it some don't. I usually smelt and flux everything I use so I know it is as clean as I can get it.

Every so often you will see Isotope Cores or alloy listed for sale. This is premium casting alloy IMO. It can be used to pour up just about anything and usually runs around a 1% tin, 3% Antimony and 96% lead. Add in some pure, and a little bit of tin to dumb down the antimony if needed, and the results are really great for just about anything up to and including rifle bullets.

One last thing that might help you out, I know I love the thing, download the spreadsheet posted up by Bumpo,
Lead-alloy-calculators

If you know exactly, or even roughly what your raw materials are, you can input the amounts in pounds and use it to get a pretty close determination to what your going to end up with. It has about all of the usable alloys sold by Rotometals as well as clip on and stick on wheel weights and plenty of other stuff you would normally use. It also gives you an estimated hardness as well which is great if your looking to try and hit a specific area.

Anyway hope this at least gives you some more ideas on what you might look into as well as what to do with it once you have it.

[Swampman1]

zxbob that's some good info there. I have actually seen those stampings in some WWs that I set aside today, so Ill go over them again. Thanks.

[Swampman1]

Mike/TX a great link to sorting WWs-with pics! The other link I couldn't open due to "php" error. Thanks for the info.

[jcwit]

I use 2 ingots of range lead of unknown alloy with 1 ingot of wheel weights. Works fine for me with the lube I use and have no leading with any caliber except 9 mm.

BTW I cast for .30 cal carbine, 7.62 x 39, 30-30, 9 mm, 9 mm makrov, 32 acp, 38 spec & 357 mag, 45 acp, 40 S & W, these are all I can think of off hand, there may be more.

[skizzums]

i pay about 35$ for a FULL 5gallon bucket, after getting out the iron and smelting, that usually yeilds me 60-70 pounds of lead, sometimes i get away with 25 a bucket

i usually offer 35$ just because it seems fair to me and then i can get them to hold the next buckket for me

[totalloser]

Wheel weights make fantastic alloy for boolits. Ebay has vendors if you are in CA. For my last batch of .45 I used 1/3 wheel weight alloy to 2/3 scrap plumbing lead and water dropped them.

44 special tops out at about 15,000 psi which would require a lead hardness of about 11.8 according to my Lee data sheet that came with my harness tester. I would not personally use pure lead since it would be too soft for those pressures in theory. But real world experience trumps data here and there.

To answer your question about avoiding alloy data etc. You could easily cast wheel weights with nothing else for .44 special. If you "water drop" them you could even go to 44 mag. WW alloy is good stuff, the only bummer is there's not much tin, so it's a little finicky getting mold fillout. I just dump them on the towel until they start looking good, and then start water dropping them and feed all the ones on the towel back to the pot.

AWESOME linky: http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

[10 Spot Terminator]

You havent said what you are casting for . The alloy you need depends on the application you will be using it for . There many suitable alloys for eaxh and every one of them . Lyman #2 is great stuff for higher velocity needs in rifle applications and many magnum handguns as well . It is overkill and not well suited to milder loads such as .38 special and smaller standard velocity loads . One of the best and easiest to understand articles on this subject can be found on the Los Angeles Silohouette Club website under an article listed as "From ingot to target" . This will answer any questions you may have now and some later on down the road . I have it saved to my favorites list and review it often . Hope this helps .

10 Spot

[Swampman1]

You havent said what you are casting for . The alloy you need depends on the application you will be using it for

Actually I did, "4- I plan on reloading 44 magnum, but with a 44 special load." Because of the magnum cases, I've upped the special load to 8 grains of HP-38, using 200 gr XTPs... and that is working fine. I'm going to order the Lee 2 cavity 200 gr RN-FP mold.
Yesterday I melted down 28 lbs of WWs, and came out with about 26 lbs of clean lead ingots. I originally considered a 1-1 mixture (1 part WWs to 1 part lead), but now I'm thinking about a 2-1 mixture (2 pts WWs to 1 pt lead). What do you guys think the approximate BHN would be for that mixture?

[Chaz88]

What do you guys think the approximate BHN would be for that mixture?

Should be in the 11 range, but can not say for sure. Might need a bit of tin.