wood rifle stock refinishing - blotch control

603Country · September 18, 2016, 06:04 PM

Over the years I've run into problems with blotching when I dyed wooden gunstocks. Never really found a product or a home made mixture that reduced blotching acceptably. But now I have. I'm making a wooden toy box for a niece and it's in Hard Maple. I had planned to stain it a dark walnut with red highlights, but I have to shamefully admit that I was not aware how badly the Hard Maple blotches. All that wood I bought, and this wasn't going to work. I tried some test stains, and all were horrible. I'm on a woodworking forum, so I went there for help, and found it. A fellow named Charles Neil makes and sells a material for blotch control. I bought some. Thank the good Lord that it actually works. I was so desperate that I even read the directions.

Charles Neil, and he has a website. No, I don't work with him, am not married to his sister, and have never met the guy.

For a gunstock or two or three, you won't need a lot of this liquid.

guncrank · September 18, 2016, 06:07 PM

What is the link??

Dufus · September 18, 2016, 06:45 PM

http://www.cn-woodworking.com/

603Country · September 18, 2016, 07:31 PM

I called it blotch control, which it is, but he calls it Pre-color Conditioner. If you are doing gunstocks, probably the smallest volume container is all you'll need.

Dixie Gunsmithing · September 19, 2016, 01:37 PM

Looks like the "conditioner" is possibly some sort of clear filler/sealer, which keeps the stain from sinking into the more-absorbent grain in spots. If the stain is absorbed equally, then you don't get blotching. That is a problem on some hardwoods and softwoods, especially sycamore and birch, which most cheaper stocks are made from; especially kit muzzle loaders, and some .22 rifles. They recommend gel stains over this, (which I have been using), in pine and a few other woods, so the stain stays on top of the grain.

Thanks for the link on this, I may try some of it.

Pahoo · September 19, 2016, 02:04 PM

Quote:

I called it blotch control, which it is, but he calls it Pre-color Conditioner.

When you initially posted this thread, a "conditioner" came to mind as that is what I use if there is any possibility of blotching which is caused by the variation in grain and rate of absorption. The one I used is made by MinWax.

Quote:

Looks like the "conditioner" is possibly some sort of clear filler/sealer

Basically that is what it is but not so much as a filler. It's clear, dries fast and applicable to all woods. .....

Be Safe !!!

603Country · September 19, 2016, 06:32 PM

Pahoo, I tried the Minwax blotch controller several times, and it just doesn't work that well. I tried most all the options, but they didn't work like the stuff I recommended.

The Hard Maple I'm working with right now is looking pretty darn good, though one board on one glued up end of the toy box is still showing some blotch. If it wasn't for this Charles Neil stuff, I'd have had to paint the toy box or just quit using it and buy some Walnut. I still have a lot of wood dye to apply to parts of the toy box, and if I run into some big problem I'll let ya'll know. Right now I'm pretty darn pleased.

Pahoo · September 19, 2016, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Pahoo, I tried the Minwax blotch controller several times

I've never heard of MinWax "blotch controller" but heck, if you have found something that works for you, then I think you are good to go ......

Be Safe !!!

603Country · September 19, 2016, 08:21 PM

Pahoo, I guess I misunderstood. You said the one you used was by Minwax, and I assumed that you meant the blotch control liquid that they sell. I don't think they call it a blotch controller, but I don't remember what they do call it. I have some in the workshop.

Some makers call it a blotch controller and some call it a 'conditioner'. It's just conditioning the wood (under ideal circumstances) to equalize dye absorption and thereby reduce over-absorption by some areas of the wood. Any type material used to reduce blotch is going to reduce to some degree the amount of dye that all parts of the wood take, but hopefully will reduce the 'bad' parts more effectively.

Doyle · September 19, 2016, 08:39 PM

I've done a little woodworking, but I'm no expert. There are 2 things I know about blotch controlling. The first was already mentioned - use a wood conditioner. There are several brands. The second thing is to switch to a gel stain. They resist blotching MUCH better than a liquid stain.

If you ever want to really understand wood finishing, get one of Bob Flexner's books. He is THE go-to guy in the woodworking world when it comes to finishes.

Pahoo · September 20, 2016, 03:17 PM

Country,
This is the product I was referring to and I has given me very good performance. .....

http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/...od-conditioner

Be Safe !!!

September 18, 2016, 06:04 PM	#1
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	wood rifle stock refinishing - blotch control Over the years I've run into problems with blotching when I dyed wooden gunstocks. Never really found a product or a home made mixture that reduced blotching acceptably. But now I have. I'm making a wooden toy box for a niece and it's in Hard Maple. I had planned to stain it a dark walnut with red highlights, but I have to shamefully admit that I was not aware how badly the Hard Maple blotches. All that wood I bought, and this wasn't going to work. I tried some test stains, and all were horrible. I'm on a woodworking forum, so I went there for help, and found it. A fellow named Charles Neil makes and sells a material for blotch control. I bought some. Thank the good Lord that it actually works. I was so desperate that I even read the directions. Charles Neil, and he has a website. No, I don't work with him, am not married to his sister, and have never met the guy. For a gunstock or two or three, you won't need a lot of this liquid.

September 18, 2016, 06:07 PM	#2
guncrank Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2006 Location: Fern Creek ,KY and Metro Louisville at large Posts: 430	What is the link?? __________________ Republic Arms and Armaments 07 1-502-231-1118 Machine Shop and Finishing Services to the trade and public

September 20, 2016, 03:17 PM	#11
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	It works Country, This is the product I was referring to and I has given me very good performance. ..... http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/...od-conditioner Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

September 18, 2016, 06:45 PM	#3
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	http://www.cn-woodworking.com/

September 18, 2016, 07:31 PM	#4
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I called it blotch control, which it is, but he calls it Pre-color Conditioner. If you are doing gunstocks, probably the smallest volume container is all you'll need.

September 19, 2016, 01:37 PM	#5
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Looks like the "conditioner" is possibly some sort of clear filler/sealer, which keeps the stain from sinking into the more-absorbent grain in spots. If the stain is absorbed equally, then you don't get blotching. That is a problem on some hardwoods and softwoods, especially sycamore and birch, which most cheaper stocks are made from; especially kit muzzle loaders, and some .22 rifles. They recommend gel stains over this, (which I have been using), in pine and a few other woods, so the stain stays on top of the grain. Thanks for the link on this, I may try some of it.

September 19, 2016, 06:32 PM	#7
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Pahoo, I tried the Minwax blotch controller several times, and it just doesn't work that well. I tried most all the options, but they didn't work like the stuff I recommended. The Hard Maple I'm working with right now is looking pretty darn good, though one board on one glued up end of the toy box is still showing some blotch. If it wasn't for this Charles Neil stuff, I'd have had to paint the toy box or just quit using it and buy some Walnut. I still have a lot of wood dye to apply to parts of the toy box, and if I run into some big problem I'll let ya'll know. Right now I'm pretty darn pleased.

September 19, 2016, 08:21 PM	#9
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Pahoo, I guess I misunderstood. You said the one you used was by Minwax, and I assumed that you meant the blotch control liquid that they sell. I don't think they call it a blotch controller, but I don't remember what they do call it. I have some in the workshop. Some makers call it a blotch controller and some call it a 'conditioner'. It's just conditioning the wood (under ideal circumstances) to equalize dye absorption and thereby reduce over-absorption by some areas of the wood. Any type material used to reduce blotch is going to reduce to some degree the amount of dye that all parts of the wood take, but hopefully will reduce the 'bad' parts more effectively.

September 19, 2016, 08:39 PM	#10
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	I've done a little woodworking, but I'm no expert. There are 2 things I know about blotch controlling. The first was already mentioned - use a wood conditioner. There are several brands. The second thing is to switch to a gel stain. They resist blotching MUCH better than a liquid stain. If you ever want to really understand wood finishing, get one of Bob Flexner's books. He is THE go-to guy in the woodworking world when it comes to finishes.