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Old July 17, 2014, 02:34 PM   #26
F. Guffey
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Interpret?

Quote:
In a Redding or RCBS bushing die, what's the difference in diameter between the outside of the bushing and inside of its chamber in the die?

In other words, how much sideways clearance is there between the bushing and the die?
You do not own one of the dies, you have never seen one of the dies and you could be a little short on tools that measure, or very short. And then you decide to argue with the CEO.

I have talked to manufacturers, there were times I saw things coming, I called RCBS and warned then they were going to get a call about one of their products and I cautioned them about their response, Dora said "Too Late".

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Old July 17, 2014, 03:31 PM   #27
Bart B.
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One last time, Guff. My challenge to Redding's CEO had nothing to do with the die. It was about their claim that the unsized part of a fired case neck helping the case neck center in the chamber neck when the round fired. Both the Redding bushing dies and standard full length sizing dies set for partial neck sizing don't size down part of the fired case neck next to the case shoulder. That's what my discussion with Redding centered on.
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Old July 17, 2014, 04:04 PM   #28
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Although I think I understand what you are saying when it comes to the bushing floating Guffey . I think Floating is an accurate term . At least when I use them . Yes the bushing rattles before I start but after the first case sized it does not . Why ? I use sizing wax and it builds up in the bushing chamber and causes the bushing to stop moving / float . I also would think when sizing a case the wax and die works like hydraulics and the wax is evenly distributed in the chamber centering the bushing . Now if you use 100% dry lube I'd think the bushing could be pushed to one side or the other when sizing if the neck is off center .

I just had a thought . is there a taper in the die that centers the bushing when sizing ?
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Old July 17, 2014, 05:17 PM   #29
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The bushing has .015" side to side movement in the die if the stem nut is not pinching the bushing to the die.

Once the bushing is clamped down by a poorly adjusted stem, the bushing is off center by a fixed amount and the case is centered in die, and the case necks will get bent.

I have made that mistake and the data from the concentricity gauge gets even worse.
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Old July 17, 2014, 06:41 PM   #30
243winxb
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Redding Type S Bushing dies. 243 Winchester

Quote:
is there a taper in the die that centers the bushing when sizing ?
Run a 308 case into my 243 type S die without any bushing or expander stem in place. The neck of the 308 case will be sized down to .278" (after spring back) The unsized part of the case neck does contact the chamber after a minimum of 3 or 4 firings. But only if the expanded fired brass neck is smaller than the die. At 18 loadings on the same brass, with the correct shoulder bump, drag can be felt when chambering a round in my bolt action. I have 2 Remington rifles with factory chambers. One gets neck turned, the other not. One rifle has put 5 shots under 1" @ 300 yds more than a few times.Right or wrong, this is how i see it. But then i can't even measure a hole in the die.
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Old July 17, 2014, 06:48 PM   #31
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Strictly as a observer I must mention that I was reading some of the Redding sight info that 243 had posted #3 thread. Redding sugests that they recommend turning standard bushings in the dies occasionally to get even wear. Also the top of the bushings must be flat to float to center on the case. That Redding sight sure has a lot of information on it. You guys sure get complex. Keep up the discussion so we can all learn more about what makes it all come together. Even if I do get lost I keep finding the trail.
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Old July 18, 2014, 06:53 AM   #32
Bart B.
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In spite of what issues some may have with Redding's full length bushing dies, they are popular and do very well in benchrest and match rifle competitor's reloading presses. But they have to be correctly adjusted to get the best results.
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Old July 18, 2014, 08:27 AM   #33
F. Guffey
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Quote:
I just had a thought . is there a taper in the die that centers the bushing when sizing ?
The bevel is on the bottom of the bushing as in 'this end down'. If there was a tapper in the die there would be reloaders complaining about installing the bushing and the die will not give it back. And, if there was a tapper the bushing would have to be installed from the bottom.

Quote:
One last time, Guff. My challenge to Redding's CEO had nothing to do with the die. It was about their claim that the unsized part of a fired case neck helping the case neck center in the chamber neck when the round fired. Both the Redding bushing dies and standard full length sizing dies set for partial neck sizing don't size down part of the fired case neck next to the case shoulder. That's what my discussion with Redding centered on.
Bart B., you called him ignorant.

Cuss the darkness are light a candle, to most the chamber goes dark when the bolt closes. Next time ask someone to measure the diameter of the neck after sizing a case without the bushing. Now, if you do not like the diameter of the neck after sizing without the bushing "we can fix that'.

Problems with the bushing die? Has anyone ask for there money back?

Quote:
they are popular and do very well in benchrest and match rifle competitor's reloading presses.
That got your attention.

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Last edited by F. Guffey; July 18, 2014 at 08:33 AM. Reason: add: installed from the bottom
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Old July 18, 2014, 09:50 AM   #34
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Guffey, you're clueless as to my issue with Redding. Yet you rant irrelevant issues.

Do know the details of my issue with Redding's CEO? Or the issues of case neck to chamber clearances he and I discussed? If not, you're an ignoratio linguist.
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Old July 18, 2014, 10:47 AM   #35
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Bart B. I was in Selma when the march began, I was in Montgomery when it came to an end, for my efforts they said to me "Yea a Yankee 'aintchy'"

I replied "Thank you"

We became friends, they invited me to family picnics and reunions, they introduced me with the status as cousin and they said I was not all that bad for a Yankee.

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Old July 18, 2014, 01:37 PM   #36
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As far as the case laying at the bottom of the chamber when the chamber is closed goes. The way I understand that is the claim of Redding in the #3 Thread depends on the fine tuning of the shell holder kits that they sell. You can adjust the head space to near zero by using the shell holder that gives zero or close to zero head space adjustments. But what actually is going on in the chamber (blackbox) is what sounds like the debate. I could be off course but check out what they say about their shell holder sets and tell me if I am wright or wrong.
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Old July 18, 2014, 05:00 PM   #37
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You're right. Redding comp. shellholder heights make it easy to have the sized cases have zero head clearance (space between bolt face and case head) when the proper one used. For some, that is easier than adjusting the die in .002" increments above the standard shellholder that does the same thing. The competition shellholder correctly used enables resized cases to have smaller spreads on case headspace which improved accuracy.

One other thing. A rimless bottleneck case with zero head clearance will never lay in the chamber bottom with the bolt closed on it. It's shoulder will be centered in the chamber shoulder and there'll be a thousandth or more clearance around the case body to the chamber wall. The back end of the case body will be pressed against the chamber wall opposite the extractor.

Last edited by Bart B.; July 18, 2014 at 05:14 PM.
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Old July 18, 2014, 05:54 PM   #38
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Old July 20, 2014, 11:08 AM   #39
F. Guffey
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Quote:
One last time, Guff. My challenge to Redding's CEO had nothing to do with the die
Bart B., this is a forum, with members, members means 'WE', I ask for a member (any member) with a press, case, die and shell holder to remove the bushing from the die and size a case, then measure the diameter of the neck.

Why? Because reloaders are claiming to have a step sequence for sizing, some have claimed to have removed the bushing and then used the die as a bump thinking the bushing die did not touch the case body, then claim they used another bushing collet type die to size the neck.

http://www.rcbs.com/resources/catalo...BS_Catalog.pdf

Somewhere about page 48 and 51 RCBS list bushing, with a few exceptions the difference in inside diameter is .001" for $20.00 +/- a few. Purchase another bushing or purchase a Lee collet die could mean it is more economical for a reloader to purchase a Lee collet die than to purchase 5 bushings, or 10 or 20.



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