Different Missouri Bullet Hardness (18/15/12/10 BHN)

BDS-THR · May 7, 2011, 10:50 AM

I started shooting Missouri bullets with 18 BHN in 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP.

Particular to 45ACP, 5.0 gr of Bullseye/W231/HP38 worked well with 200 SWC (IDP #1) and 230 RN (SoftBall) in producing accurate shot groups and minimal/no leading in the barrels of various pistols I shot them out of. I knew that 200 SWC bullet came in 18 and 12 BHN, but since I was happy with the accuracy and minimal/no leading with the 18 BHN bullet, I did not think much about the softer 12 BHN bullet.

Last year, when I was doing load tests with Promo using 2004 Alliant Red Dot load data in 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP, I found that 4.0 gr of Promo produced accurate loads with 200 gr SWC that produced mild recoil but caused more lead smearing near the chamber end when shot out of Taurus PT145 with decreased accuracy (M&P45/1911s shot this load without issues). It was determined that PT145 barrel bore size was a bit larger than the .451" bore size of M&P45/1911s and the lighter 4.0 gr charge of Promo was not properly bumping the base of the 18 BHN bullet (obturation).

When the 4.0 gr Promo load was loaded with the softer 12 BHN 200 gr SWC (Bullseye #1), it produced better obturation of the bullet base and accuracy/lead smearing improved. This load is now my wife's favorite 45ACP load and a retired friend's designated PT145 load due to mild recoil and accuracy.

What's been your experience with Missouri bullets specific to various hardness (18/15/12/10 BHN)? Do the different bullet hardness factor into your particular load development? Has anyone tried the 10/15 BHN bullets?

Loader9 · May 7, 2011, 05:34 PM

When loading any lead bullets in standard pistol cases, a brinell hardness of 12 will cover most of the bases as long as the correct powder is used. Not all pistol powders are ideal for lead bullets. Keeping velocities in the max range of 900-1000fps generally works for a 12 brinell bullet. As velocity goes up, so does the hardness or expect leading. Usually a lead bullet is a plinker and not a magnum or high velocity round so the hardness is semi-irrelevant. The 45acp is not an issue with brinell hardness and if you keep the 40 and 9mm below 1000'ps, using the correct powder that does not have a high burn temperature, it would be just fine. I use very little Alliant powder and I'm not familiar with the burn temp of Promo.

cracked butt · May 7, 2011, 06:23 PM

I agree, lower hardness for handgun rounds.
A lot of your leading in handguns is going to e caused by bullets too hard and/or undersized.
I shoot bullet cast from straight wheel weights (hardness is going to be between 8-10) sized to .452" in the 191, without ever having a leading issue.

I'm currently working through issues with a .480 ruger with leading. Using straight WW metal to cast 400gr pills, I'm getting less leading as I push the bullet faster. I went from horrible leading at minimum loads to very little at maximum.

Shoney · May 7, 2011, 06:37 PM

If you take time to read the TECHNICAL page on hardness at Missouri bullet

http://www.missouribullet.com/technical.php

I believe it will give you a better understanding of alloy uses.

Uncle Buck · May 8, 2011, 06:41 AM

Shoney, that is the page I used to determine what hardness I want to use.

When I first started reloading I was having lead problems. Someone mentioned the brinell hardness of the bullet and I had no idea what they were talking about.

Although I prefer Missouri Bullet Co., the information applies to other manufacturers. (Something about physics and laws and all that stuff

) To me a bullet was a bullet was a bullet. They were all made of lead.

The hardness of the bullet made a big difference in the clean-up afterwards.

May 7, 2011, 06:37 PM	#4
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	If you take time to read the TECHNICAL page on hardness at Missouri bullet http://www.missouribullet.com/technical.php I believe it will give you a better understanding of alloy uses. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

May 8, 2011, 06:41 AM	#5
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	Shoney, that is the page I used to determine what hardness I want to use. When I first started reloading I was having lead problems. Someone mentioned the brinell hardness of the bullet and I had no idea what they were talking about. Although I prefer Missouri Bullet Co., the information applies to other manufacturers. (Something about physics and laws and all that stuff ) To me a bullet was a bullet was a bullet. They were all made of lead. The hardness of the bullet made a big difference in the clean-up afterwards. __________________ Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen. Last edited by Uncle Buck; May 8, 2011 at 06:43 AM. Reason: Forgot to spell check.

May 7, 2011, 10:50 AM	#1
BDS-THR Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2010 Posts: 479	Different Missouri Bullet Hardness (18/15/12/10 BHN) I started shooting Missouri bullets with 18 BHN in 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP. Particular to 45ACP, 5.0 gr of Bullseye/W231/HP38 worked well with 200 SWC (IDP #1) and 230 RN (SoftBall) in producing accurate shot groups and minimal/no leading in the barrels of various pistols I shot them out of. I knew that 200 SWC bullet came in 18 and 12 BHN, but since I was happy with the accuracy and minimal/no leading with the 18 BHN bullet, I did not think much about the softer 12 BHN bullet. Last year, when I was doing load tests with Promo using 2004 Alliant Red Dot load data in 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP, I found that 4.0 gr of Promo produced accurate loads with 200 gr SWC that produced mild recoil but caused more lead smearing near the chamber end when shot out of Taurus PT145 with decreased accuracy (M&P45/1911s shot this load without issues). It was determined that PT145 barrel bore size was a bit larger than the .451" bore size of M&P45/1911s and the lighter 4.0 gr charge of Promo was not properly bumping the base of the 18 BHN bullet (obturation). When the 4.0 gr Promo load was loaded with the softer 12 BHN 200 gr SWC (Bullseye #1), it produced better obturation of the bullet base and accuracy/lead smearing improved. This load is now my wife's favorite 45ACP load and a retired friend's designated PT145 load due to mild recoil and accuracy. What's been your experience with Missouri bullets specific to various hardness (18/15/12/10 BHN)? Do the different bullet hardness factor into your particular load development? Has anyone tried the 10/15 BHN bullets?

May 7, 2011, 05:34 PM	#2
Loader9 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2008 Posts: 949	When loading any lead bullets in standard pistol cases, a brinell hardness of 12 will cover most of the bases as long as the correct powder is used. Not all pistol powders are ideal for lead bullets. Keeping velocities in the max range of 900-1000fps generally works for a 12 brinell bullet. As velocity goes up, so does the hardness or expect leading. Usually a lead bullet is a plinker and not a magnum or high velocity round so the hardness is semi-irrelevant. The 45acp is not an issue with brinell hardness and if you keep the 40 and 9mm below 1000'ps, using the correct powder that does not have a high burn temperature, it would be just fine. I use very little Alliant powder and I'm not familiar with the burn temp of Promo.

May 7, 2011, 06:23 PM	#3
cracked butt Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2001 Location: southeastern wisconsin Posts: 537	I agree, lower hardness for handgun rounds. A lot of your leading in handguns is going to e caused by bullets too hard and/or undersized. I shoot bullet cast from straight wheel weights (hardness is going to be between 8-10) sized to .452" in the 191, without ever having a leading issue. I'm currently working through issues with a .480 ruger with leading. Using straight WW metal to cast 400gr pills, I'm getting less leading as I push the bullet faster. I went from horrible leading at minimum loads to very little at maximum.