Long range AR build

TrueBlue711 · January 19, 2018, 02:24 PM

With the announcement of the 224 Valkyrie, I've decided to make my next AR build a long range build in that caliber. All of my other ARs are carbine or pistol length gas systems, so this is my first rifle length gas system for long range purposes.

One question I have so far is matching gas system to buffer tube/buffer. I kinda assumed you would want a rifle buffer/buffer tube (A1 or A2 style) to go with the rifle length gas system. But I'm being told that with an adjustable gas block, you should have no problem using a carbine length buffer/buffer tube with a rifle gas system. Thoughts and experiences?

Mobuck · January 19, 2018, 03:42 PM

Makes no difference as long as the buffer tube, spring, and buffer are matched.
The length of the gas system has nothing to do with the rest of the parts. Adjustable gas block is handy for fine tuning but not necessary to compensate for gas tube length.

TXAZ · January 19, 2018, 04:46 PM

A 90 grain projectile is pretty humorous when talking “long range”.
The only real “Long Range AR” is an AR-50.

TrueBlue711 · January 19, 2018, 05:42 PM

Thanks Mobuck. Will make the build a little bit easier now.

Quote:

A 90 grain projectile is pretty humorous when talking “long range”.

Look into the 224 Valkyrie. I couldn't believe it either, but 1000-1300 yds is no problem for it. Still supersonic at those ranges.

Palmetto-Pride · January 19, 2018, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXAZ

A 90 grain projectile is pretty humorous when talking “long range”.
The only real “Long Range AR” is an AR-50.

Let me guess you can hit a soda can at two miles on the first shot with it.......

TXAZ · January 19, 2018, 10:34 PM

Nope but golf balls at 563 yards, yes

I understand the .224 Valkyrie is supposed to be 'the best of the .223 and 6.5 Creedmoor'. But it's still a fairly light projectile, regardless of a .5 BC.

CarJunkieLS1 · January 20, 2018, 08:17 AM

Long Range AR-15 7mm Valkyrie shooting 168 Bergers

TrueBlue711 · January 22, 2018, 10:13 AM

Ok, another question: triggers. This is another personal preference one, but do you prefer a nice single stage trigger (like Timney) or a double stage trigger (like Geissele) for long range shooting? I have and like both, but not sure which would be better for ~1000 yard shots.

Chainsaw. · January 22, 2018, 11:30 AM

I'll not participate in caliber masturbation discussions

, but about triggers, I prefer a nice single stage, you should know where the trigger breaks IMHO, and not need a reminder to tell you its coming up. Again just my opinion. I really like the CMC drop in triggers, they are great for the money.

TrueBlue711 · January 22, 2018, 11:41 AM

Quote:

I'll not participate in caliber masturbation discussions

Thank you! Caliber talk was not the intent of this discussion. I guess I shouldn't have brought up what caliber I'm building in the first place.

ed308 · January 23, 2018, 09:48 AM

Take a look at LaRue two stage MBT. For LR, I like a two stage. The price and quality of the MBT is hard to beat. But if the Geissele is a two stage, that's what I would use.

Good luck on the .224 Valkyrie. I was going to build one but decided to wait it out and see how the caliber performs with the twist being offered. Not sure the 1:7 twist is best twist for that caliber and the heavy bullets. I was going to go with a rifle gas system with a 22" barrel.

MarkCO · January 23, 2018, 10:17 AM

I have seen the real Chrono numbers from a few rifles, Savage and JP and if it were me, I would be going with a 22" barrel and an extended gas system. The extra 2" will increase lifespan as well as further soften the recoil impulse.

https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/gas...-length-2.html

As stated, A2 or carbine buffer does not matter. There are heavy Carbine buffers, XP springs, JPs SCS, etc. The buttstock you want (get an adjustable) will decide the buffer tube you go with. Focus everything on the 80 to 90 grain bullets as that is where the real benefit lies. With 77s at 5.56 pressures, I can get pretty dang close to the 224 Valkyrie, but with the 80s and 90s, no contest.

I was spotting for Mike of Mile High Shooting on a few stages in what might have been the first Precision match run with the 224 Valkyrie. It was pretty impressive and he took it out to 1124 yards competing against 6mm and 6.5mm bolt guns. Past 800 yards, seeing impacts was challenging, but I managed. Saw no trace with it while I saw 90% of the traces with 6mm and up.

TrueBlue711 · January 23, 2018, 10:35 AM

Quote:

As stated, A2 or carbine buffer does not matter. There are heavy Carbine buffers, XP springs, JPs SCS, etc. The buttstock you want (get an adjustable) will decide the buffer tube you go with.

I already got Magpul's PRS buttstock, which will fit on both carbine and A2 tubes. Good to know it doesn't matter when it comes to function on a rifle length gas system. So it almost sounds like I'm going to base my decision on buffer/tube/spring cost. Which isn't much different between the two either from what I'm seeing.

TrueBlue711 · January 26, 2018, 10:51 AM

Well! I think my build plans may be thrown out the window with this announcement: Savage is releasing the MSR15 Valkyrie with an MSRP for $1500. I totaled up the cost for all the parts I was planning on buying for the build and it was about $1200. Street price for the Savage shouldn't be too far off what I was planning...And I'm sure other companies are right behind Savage and will have similar rifles for similar prices.

https://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/MSR15Valkyrie

MarkCO · January 26, 2018, 01:32 PM

Good choice on the Savage.

I have a JP .224 Valkyrie barrel on order...they tell me April...

January 19, 2018, 02:24 PM	#1
TrueBlue711 Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2011 Posts: 489	Long range AR build With the announcement of the 224 Valkyrie, I've decided to make my next AR build a long range build in that caliber. All of my other ARs are carbine or pistol length gas systems, so this is my first rifle length gas system for long range purposes. One question I have so far is matching gas system to buffer tube/buffer. I kinda assumed you would want a rifle buffer/buffer tube (A1 or A2 style) to go with the rifle length gas system. But I'm being told that with an adjustable gas block, you should have no problem using a carbine length buffer/buffer tube with a rifle gas system. Thoughts and experiences?

January 19, 2018, 04:46 PM	#3
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	A 90 grain projectile is pretty humorous when talking “long range”. The only real “Long Range AR” is an AR-50. __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

January 19, 2018, 10:34 PM	#6
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	Nope but golf balls at 563 yards, yes I understand the .224 Valkyrie is supposed to be 'the best of the .223 and 6.5 Creedmoor'. But it's still a fairly light projectile, regardless of a .5 BC. __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

January 22, 2018, 11:30 AM	#9
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	I'll not participate in caliber masturbation discussions, but about triggers, I prefer a nice single stage, you should know where the trigger breaks IMHO, and not need a reminder to tell you its coming up. Again just my opinion. I really like the CMC drop in triggers, they are great for the money. __________________ Just shoot the damn thing.

January 23, 2018, 10:17 AM	#12
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,307	I have seen the real Chrono numbers from a few rifles, Savage and JP and if it were me, I would be going with a 22" barrel and an extended gas system. The extra 2" will increase lifespan as well as further soften the recoil impulse. https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/gas...-length-2.html As stated, A2 or carbine buffer does not matter. There are heavy Carbine buffers, XP springs, JPs SCS, etc. The buttstock you want (get an adjustable) will decide the buffer tube you go with. Focus everything on the 80 to 90 grain bullets as that is where the real benefit lies. With 77s at 5.56 pressures, I can get pretty dang close to the 224 Valkyrie, but with the 80s and 90s, no contest. I was spotting for Mike of Mile High Shooting on a few stages in what might have been the first Precision match run with the 224 Valkyrie. It was pretty impressive and he took it out to 1124 yards competing against 6mm and 6.5mm bolt guns. Past 800 yards, seeing impacts was challenging, but I managed. Saw no trace with it while I saw 90% of the traces with 6mm and up. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

January 19, 2018, 03:42 PM	#2
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Makes no difference as long as the buffer tube, spring, and buffer are matched. The length of the gas system has nothing to do with the rest of the parts. Adjustable gas block is handy for fine tuning but not necessary to compensate for gas tube length.

January 20, 2018, 08:17 AM	#7
CarJunkieLS1 Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2013 Posts: 686	Long Range AR-15 7mm Valkyrie shooting 168 Bergers

January 22, 2018, 10:13 AM	#8
TrueBlue711 Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2011 Posts: 489	Ok, another question: triggers. This is another personal preference one, but do you prefer a nice single stage trigger (like Timney) or a double stage trigger (like Geissele) for long range shooting? I have and like both, but not sure which would be better for ~1000 yard shots.

January 23, 2018, 09:48 AM	#11
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	Take a look at LaRue two stage MBT. For LR, I like a two stage. The price and quality of the MBT is hard to beat. But if the Geissele is a two stage, that's what I would use. Good luck on the .224 Valkyrie. I was going to build one but decided to wait it out and see how the caliber performs with the twist being offered. Not sure the 1:7 twist is best twist for that caliber and the heavy bullets. I was going to go with a rifle gas system with a 22" barrel.

January 26, 2018, 10:51 AM	#14
TrueBlue711 Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2011 Posts: 489	Well! I think my build plans may be thrown out the window with this announcement: Savage is releasing the MSR15 Valkyrie with an MSRP for $1500. I totaled up the cost for all the parts I was planning on buying for the build and it was about $1200. Street price for the Savage shouldn't be too far off what I was planning...And I'm sure other companies are right behind Savage and will have similar rifles for similar prices. https://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/MSR15Valkyrie

January 26, 2018, 01:32 PM	#15
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,307	Good choice on the Savage. I have a JP .224 Valkyrie barrel on order...they tell me April... __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us