Manual Shotshell ROLL CRIMPING TOOL brand Forest Camping

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · October 31, 2016, 06:07 PM

Hi,

I have a question.

Has anyone experience with this Shotshell Hand Roll Crimping tool?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roll-Crimpin...8AAOSwQjZXQEjf
Supposedly there may be patented rights for the photo so I put the link only.

It is an Manual roll crimp tool for crimping shotgun Shells. Made in Russia as it seems and Comes sometimes under the brand of Forest Camping (seems to be made in Sibiria).

I ordered one for 12 ga and one for 20 ga already and wondered if they are worthed and if they are of Quality and how durable they are.
I am going to roll crimp 7/8 oz Lee drive key slugs for the 12 ga and for the 20 ga I am going to roll crimp .562" and .575" round ball loads.

Would be glad to hear from first Hand experiences or as well hearsay.

John C · October 31, 2016, 10:28 PM

I haven't used that tool, but it matches the pattern of roll crimpers going back 125 years. They must work, and probably well. Usually the ones I see for sale are antiques.

I only know a couple of people who roll crimp, and they use the drill press tools from Ballistic Products. Considering your circumstances, the Forest Camping tools seem like great solutions.

Salmoneye · November 1, 2016, 06:25 AM

I inherited two full sets of reloading tools from around 1900...I have used both sets since the 1960's...

Roll crimping paper is easy...Roll crimping plastic hulls that have not been fired is a bit harder...Roll crimping previously fired star crimped shells can be a PITA...

They do indeed work, but other than paper hulls, it is not as simple as that link makes it look...Trimming fired hulls can help, but then you will never be able to use that hull with a star crimp again, except for making 'short' shells...

This is a better example of what hand loading/roll crimping was like 'back in the day'...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-wve8IPA9s

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · November 1, 2016, 07:41 AM

Dear salmoneye

It is for TRANSFORMING commercial birdshot rounds into slugs, round balls, or buckshot using Lee molds.
I normally trimm off the star crimp of the birdshot shotshell and then put into the wad cup the drive key slug or round ball. I just figured it was better to apply some sort of crimp as I ran across these roll crimping tools on ebay.
I want to roll crimp in order to lock in tight the slug or round ball like factory slugs.

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · December 4, 2016, 07:03 PM

Hi ya all,

Today I got my Forest Camping brand 20 ga crimping tool. Made in Russia (Sibiria).
The 12 ga crimping tool did not yet arrive.

Excellent tool. Very satified.

Here I post a photo of the tool mounted. First 2 rounds are 20 ga Hand crimped with the tool (one with an .562" lead round ball and the other one with an .575" lead round ball). Behind them an open (not crimped) 20 ga Shell with an .575" round ball inserted and behind that an factory 20 ga slug as well an factory 12 ga slug.

The tool is awesome. It just works and works easy. The Quality of the crimping is almost on par with factory crimped slugs. If I would have cut the Plastik of the Shells a bit it would be turned out even better and on par with factory crimping.
The tool is a Quality product.
If all russian products are like this (Quality and practical) then Wladimir Putin is a "hilarious" big challenge for our rotten western System led by "Muammar Hussein Osama".

I hope the tool is not breaking soon. But I feel very Little pressure is needed for crimping and not much force is exerted on the crimping tool. So I expect nothing is to break soon. It is nice Metall plated painted (like my Lyman T Mag 2 turret press). Rust should not be an issue. Keep all parts lubricated and you are good to go for years.
When crimping oil the turning part well between turns. That helps overheating the Plastik (of the Shell) and maintains smooth the tool.

As you may see the crimped Shells are way shorter than the original (non crimped) behind. I could crimp 'em even shorter but the wad on the one Shell started to crumble so I stopped.

Nice tool Overall. I just recommend it. That saves about 65% or more of the factory slug Price.

This is definitely the way to go.

Thanks to you russian People. Excellent product. Just Keep on Holding fast on Christianity!

SARuger · December 6, 2016, 05:24 AM

Nice! I'm interested in making my own slugs but really don't know where to start. I might order one of these and figure it out!

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · December 6, 2016, 09:53 AM

Yes you will not be disappointed.

Just the clamp has to be retightened every now and then.
I did not cut off excessice plastic of Shell and wad so I had to force a bit more the tool to get crimped it onto the round ball.

If you use round balls the 2 3/4" Shells have to get cut down as well the wad in order to get rid of excessive plastic.
Turn a few turns, check and lube again (I use liquid grease spray) then turn a few turns again. If you get rid of excessive Plastics then in a few turns you will have an nice crimp.
The same applies for 12 ga Lee 7/8 oz drive key slugs (get rid of excessive Plastics).

In my case I use the crimping tool/Lee casting molds as Lee Precision intended it to be: for TRANSFORMING birdshot Shells into slugs/buckshot.
Here in Southamerica we have not reloading supplies for shotshells so we are limited to buy "El cheapo", or rather locally "El expensiv", birdshots and transforming them into higher value slugs or buckshot.

Buckshot is here 66% more expensive than birdshot and slugs are 300% more expensive than birdshot is. So it's definitelly worthed.
I know already locally People who just get rid of their guns since ammo became here almost unaffordable. Most People stick here with 22lr since other calibers are just to expensive to shoot. Local gunshops are just insanely expensive (it's not the governements fault nor the customers fault but alone the businessmen faults).
Luckily I got all my reloading Equipment already on time.

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · December 6, 2016, 10:01 AM

SARuger,

First you have to know if you are going to TRANSFORM birdshot Shells or reload empty hulls (from scratch).

Transform: Need a mold (round ball or slug mold) for casting your slugs or buckshot. Then you Need the crimping tool. Thats all. Just buy the cheapest birdshot you can find.

Reloading from scratch: hulls, wads, powder, primer, mold, crimping tool, all the reloading Equipment (Like Lee shotshell reloader).
This Option we here in Southamerica do not have.

MAKE SURE THE ROUND BALL/SLUG SLIDES FREELY THROUGH YOUR CHOKE (of the shotgun). At most use Modified chokes. Improved Cylinder is recommnded.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · December 6, 2016, 10:27 AM

21 st century tools for roll crimps sold here.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/BPI.../products/545/

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · December 6, 2016, 10:37 AM

That american made roll crimper may work nice as well but in my case I did not want to get involved an electrical drill (it's about the Price of my russian Hand crimper). Had to be Manual.

As well what turned me off from electrical roll crimpers is some are made of Plastik.

As well you may get too much heat while Spinning.

Even with this Manual roll crimper I got a few turns will Transfer some heat to the Shell already. Not even think of using an electrical Speed drill even at low turns.

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · January 1, 2017, 05:23 PM

Hi to all who are interested in this thread,

I just got my Forest Camping 12 gauge roll crimper.

It works even better than the 20 ga roll crimper with round balls.
The Lee 7/8 oz drive key slug is crimping way better than the round balls. Buck&Ball (George Washington load) works very well as well.
I loaded the empty Shell with BP + powder of 1 bomb from an firecracker rocket. As stated in this thread https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=582254.

Here the photo of one 12 ga roll crimped Lee 7/8 oz drive key slug. They are very accurate to deer size/man size/tree size accuracy at 40 meters (hit almost Point of aim with an shotgun which has no sigths).

Fox84 · January 5, 2017, 06:45 PM

I wonder how well this would improve my birdshot hot glue slugs.
You have my interest for sure because I have loads of lead and casting tools.
How much shell do you leave for a tight crimp on those slugs?

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · January 5, 2017, 07:38 PM

What are Hot Glue Slugs?

I do it as follows:

I take any normal birdshot 12 gauge round. Over here People prefere #5 birdshot Shells.
I take a knife and cut off the star crimp by cutting the upper plastic rim off till the star crimp can be lifted up.
Then I empty the birdshot and save it and put there #4 Buckshot (Lee #4 Buckshot mold) in or in the future .311" round balls (Lee 311 round ball mold which is between #1 Buckshot and Single-ougth-buck Buckshot).

[I Switch away from the #4 Buckshot caliber 24 because the Lee mold is very hard to cast and I get allways only the first cavity full and the others are empty or partially filled. Due to my very high Zinc Content of my Wheel Wheights. So using bigger holes as 31 caliber will pour better the Buckshot and I will get about 9 to 12 into the birdshot wad Cup; while with #4 Buck I can enter 13 to 15 into the birdshot wad Cup]

After filling the wad I leave a certain room just big enough to fit snug the cut off star crimp (fit in ist original place) and guide it into the crimper without the Buckshot falling out and crimp. Try to put it back as it was originally and start crimping. It will make an nice crimp. In my experience you can not overcrimp rising the pressure to a dangerous high.
Here the photo

Your ROLL CRIMP will work with whatever plastic you have left above the wad Cup. A few Millimeters (as Minimum) will be enough to give you a good roll crimp.
P.S. I Changed/downgraded my phone to an 49$ el cheapo model (Microsoft 532 vs my before Samsung S2). Nice phone but my 5MP camera has no autofocus nor light. Electronics are not worthed to spend lots of Money on IMHO.

**Unclenick** · January 6, 2017, 03:35 PM

It's just a slug made of birdshot glued together with hotmelt glue. The hotmelt glue is a low density polyethylene and melts at far lower temperature than lead does.

TheGuyOfSouthamerica · January 6, 2017, 04:10 PM

These rounds you see in my last post are all made with smokeless powder (not rocket powder). They are TRANSFORMED birdshot rounds as they came from factory. Same factory powder I left in those rounds.

Normally an roll crimp or I would guess, any crimp, does not improve the rounds made (shotgun).
But it Looks so nice and factory like; and it is way cheaper.

There may be a slight improvement over let's say the open 20 ga round ball round you see on my post from December 4th.
As it is roll crimped a bit more pressure is neccessary to Launch the load (whatever it is). Even considered the Lee 7/8 oz slug is Fitting very snug the wad Cup; an crimp will IMPROVE THE POWDER COMBUSTION.

If the load is on the light side like my #4 Buckshot which sometimes gets only 13 pellets (about 273 grains) in the wad Cup (no more space) than powder burn even with roll crimp is incomplete. Since those Shells are factory made with an 1 oz payload (437 grain) of #5 birdshot. No wonder why there is incomplete powder burn. But those loads are very soft to shoot. This powder is VV N330 powder in the shotshells (spanish brand)

Putting in 15 or 16 pellets (just over 315 grain) ammeliorates considerably the powder burn (same roll crimp). But those shotshells are argentinian made and have a way quicker burning powder and come factory with an 1 1/8 oz factory load. They Show still slightly unburnt powder (yellow traces in the bore) but could be usable as that in a pinch. Recoil is still soft and any woman/whimsy man could shoot These loads.

The 7/8 oz (382 grain) Lee drive key slug never Shows any unburnt powder residue in any brand. But it's recoil is harder and would be uncomfortable for light weight People.

The .311" Diameter round ball has 45 grains and if I can stuff 8 in each birdshot wad Cup (and crimp it) I get 360 grains. That would make burn the powder completely and be of light recoil. But i doubt I can fit 8 of These into the birdshot Cups so I may have to manipulate (cut down) the crushing part of the wads to make more room.

As Long as the load does not slide an roll crimp is an Option. But roll crimping allows you to load Buckshot or undersized round balls safely making sure they stay in place.

January 5, 2017, 06:45 PM	#12
Fox84 Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2012 Location: Chester Va Posts: 360	I wonder how well this would improve my birdshot hot glue slugs. You have my interest for sure because I have loads of lead and casting tools. How much shell do you leave for a tight crimp on those slugs? __________________ Rest assured "evil is on the way, but the BEST is yet to come"

January 6, 2017, 03:35 PM	#14
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	It's just a slug made of birdshot glued together with hotmelt glue. The hotmelt glue is a low density polyethylene and melts at far lower temperature than lead does. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 31, 2016, 06:07 PM	#1
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	Manual Shotshell ROLL CRIMPING TOOL brand Forest Camping Hi, I have a question. Has anyone experience with this Shotshell Hand Roll Crimping tool? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roll-Crimpin...8AAOSwQjZXQEjf Supposedly there may be patented rights for the photo so I put the link only. It is an Manual roll crimp tool for crimping shotgun Shells. Made in Russia as it seems and Comes sometimes under the brand of Forest Camping (seems to be made in Sibiria). I ordered one for 12 ga and one for 20 ga already and wondered if they are worthed and if they are of Quality and how durable they are. I am going to roll crimp 7/8 oz Lee drive key slugs for the 12 ga and for the 20 ga I am going to roll crimp .562" and .575" round ball loads. Would be glad to hear from first Hand experiences or as well hearsay. Last edited by TheGuyOfSouthamerica; October 31, 2016 at 10:38 PM.

October 31, 2016, 10:28 PM	#2
John C Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2005 Posts: 127	I haven't used that tool, but it matches the pattern of roll crimpers going back 125 years. They must work, and probably well. Usually the ones I see for sale are antiques. I only know a couple of people who roll crimp, and they use the drill press tools from Ballistic Products. Considering your circumstances, the Forest Camping tools seem like great solutions.

November 1, 2016, 06:25 AM	#3
Salmoneye Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 2,076	I inherited two full sets of reloading tools from around 1900...I have used both sets since the 1960's... Roll crimping paper is easy...Roll crimping plastic hulls that have not been fired is a bit harder...Roll crimping previously fired star crimped shells can be a PITA... They do indeed work, but other than paper hulls, it is not as simple as that link makes it look...Trimming fired hulls can help, but then you will never be able to use that hull with a star crimp again, except for making 'short' shells... This is a better example of what hand loading/roll crimping was like 'back in the day'... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-wve8IPA9s

November 1, 2016, 07:41 AM	#4
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	Dear salmoneye It is for TRANSFORMING commercial birdshot rounds into slugs, round balls, or buckshot using Lee molds. I normally trimm off the star crimp of the birdshot shotshell and then put into the wad cup the drive key slug or round ball. I just figured it was better to apply some sort of crimp as I ran across these roll crimping tools on ebay. I want to roll crimp in order to lock in tight the slug or round ball like factory slugs.

December 6, 2016, 05:24 AM	#6
SARuger Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2014 Location: Blue Ridge Mountains of VA Posts: 954	Nice! I'm interested in making my own slugs but really don't know where to start. I might order one of these and figure it out!

December 6, 2016, 09:53 AM	#7
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	Yes you will not be disappointed. Just the clamp has to be retightened every now and then. I did not cut off excessice plastic of Shell and wad so I had to force a bit more the tool to get crimped it onto the round ball. If you use round balls the 2 3/4" Shells have to get cut down as well the wad in order to get rid of excessive plastic. Turn a few turns, check and lube again (I use liquid grease spray) then turn a few turns again. If you get rid of excessive Plastics then in a few turns you will have an nice crimp. The same applies for 12 ga Lee 7/8 oz drive key slugs (get rid of excessive Plastics). In my case I use the crimping tool/Lee casting molds as Lee Precision intended it to be: for TRANSFORMING birdshot Shells into slugs/buckshot. Here in Southamerica we have not reloading supplies for shotshells so we are limited to buy "El cheapo", or rather locally "El expensiv", birdshots and transforming them into higher value slugs or buckshot. Buckshot is here 66% more expensive than birdshot and slugs are 300% more expensive than birdshot is. So it's definitelly worthed. I know already locally People who just get rid of their guns since ammo became here almost unaffordable. Most People stick here with 22lr since other calibers are just to expensive to shoot. Local gunshops are just insanely expensive (it's not the governements fault nor the customers fault but alone the businessmen faults). Luckily I got all my reloading Equipment already on time.

December 6, 2016, 10:01 AM	#8
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	SARuger, First you have to know if you are going to TRANSFORM birdshot Shells or reload empty hulls (from scratch). Transform: Need a mold (round ball or slug mold) for casting your slugs or buckshot. Then you Need the crimping tool. Thats all. Just buy the cheapest birdshot you can find. Reloading from scratch: hulls, wads, powder, primer, mold, crimping tool, all the reloading Equipment (Like Lee shotshell reloader). This Option we here in Southamerica do not have. MAKE SURE THE ROUND BALL/SLUG SLIDES FREELY THROUGH YOUR CHOKE (of the shotgun). At most use Modified chokes. Improved Cylinder is recommnded.

December 6, 2016, 10:27 AM	#9
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	21 st century tools for roll crimps sold here. http://www.ballisticproducts.com/BPI.../products/545/

December 6, 2016, 10:37 AM	#10
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	That american made roll crimper may work nice as well but in my case I did not want to get involved an electrical drill (it's about the Price of my russian Hand crimper). Had to be Manual. As well what turned me off from electrical roll crimpers is some are made of Plastik. As well you may get too much heat while Spinning. Even with this Manual roll crimper I got a few turns will Transfer some heat to the Shell already. Not even think of using an electrical Speed drill even at low turns.

January 6, 2017, 04:10 PM	#15
TheGuyOfSouthamerica Junior member Join Date: September 10, 2016 Posts: 846	These rounds you see in my last post are all made with smokeless powder (not rocket powder). They are TRANSFORMED birdshot rounds as they came from factory. Same factory powder I left in those rounds. Normally an roll crimp or I would guess, any crimp, does not improve the rounds made (shotgun). But it Looks so nice and factory like; and it is way cheaper. There may be a slight improvement over let's say the open 20 ga round ball round you see on my post from December 4th. As it is roll crimped a bit more pressure is neccessary to Launch the load (whatever it is). Even considered the Lee 7/8 oz slug is Fitting very snug the wad Cup; an crimp will IMPROVE THE POWDER COMBUSTION. If the load is on the light side like my #4 Buckshot which sometimes gets only 13 pellets (about 273 grains) in the wad Cup (no more space) than powder burn even with roll crimp is incomplete. Since those Shells are factory made with an 1 oz payload (437 grain) of #5 birdshot. No wonder why there is incomplete powder burn. But those loads are very soft to shoot. This powder is VV N330 powder in the shotshells (spanish brand) Putting in 15 or 16 pellets (just over 315 grain) ammeliorates considerably the powder burn (same roll crimp). But those shotshells are argentinian made and have a way quicker burning powder and come factory with an 1 1/8 oz factory load. They Show still slightly unburnt powder (yellow traces in the bore) but could be usable as that in a pinch. Recoil is still soft and any woman/whimsy man could shoot These loads. The 7/8 oz (382 grain) Lee drive key slug never Shows any unburnt powder residue in any brand. But it's recoil is harder and would be uncomfortable for light weight People. The .311" Diameter round ball has 45 grains and if I can stuff 8 in each birdshot wad Cup (and crimp it) I get 360 grains. That would make burn the powder completely and be of light recoil. But i doubt I can fit 8 of These into the birdshot Cups so I may have to manipulate (cut down) the crushing part of the wads to make more room. As Long as the load does not slide an roll crimp is an Option. But roll crimping allows you to load Buckshot or undersized round balls safely making sure they stay in place.