choosing a training class

[jdmstanced]

Google shows a lot of results for training classes availability in michigan. Do i just pick one with many reviews?

I found this class of 8.5 hrs including the range hours. This has a ton of good google ratings.

MICHIGAN Concealed Carry Classes – New Applicants – Ultimate Protection Academy
ccwtraining.com ccwtraining.com

This class of 4 hrs including the range hours.
MI Concealed Carry Classes – Review Applicants – Ultimate Protection Academy
ccwtraining.com ccwtraining.com

Both are 99$. It seems like range is free. I've seen other classes that charge $99 for 2 hours. so.. i don't know why this is cheaper.

[JohnKSa]

Training costs vary widely--I wouldn't rule a class in or out based solely on cost differences to other classes in the area.

You've already done your homework in terms of comparing reviews. The next step I would take is looking at what the classes teach.


If they are teaching the same things, have similar reviews, then it comes down to cost.

[jdmstanced]

It seems like CCW class is what i need to start off in order to know how to handle guns and own guns?
Are there specific classes for speed shooting, or do i keep taking advanced classes until i reach a competitive level?

[TunnelRat]

What level of experience do you have going into this? It sounds like from your last post that you may not own any firearms or have any experience. If that is the case a CCW class may not be what you should look for. Some CCW courses start at a very basic level and work up, some only focus on the legal requirements and implications of carrying a firearm, and there are loads in-between. Any instructor should be willing to tell you what they cover in the course ahead of time. Call and ask and explain the level of experience you have and what you're looking for. As for competition, if you really have no experience as of now I wouldn't worry about it at this point.

[JohnKSa]

It's hard to say without knowing what the specific class teaches.

If the class is an introduction to firearms, then that would be a good place to start if you are new to firearms.

If the class assumes a basic competence with firearms, then it might be better to start with something more basic if you are just getting started.

If this is all brand new to you, the first thing you need to do is learn firearm safety. The basics are:

Muzzle control--never pointing a gun at something you don't want to destroy.
Trigger discipline--keeping your finger off the trigger if you don't want to shoot.
Safe handling--knowing how to safely load/unload and use your firearm.

Any class you go to will expect you to understand these basic rules or will teach them to you as a first step. Fortunately, firearm manuals have this information in them and you can learn them on your own. If you don't have a manual for your firearm, they are almost always available for download online.

From there, you can take basic firearm classes that would cover things like:

Safety rules.
Maintenance/storage.
Basic firearm operations. Loading/unloading/firing.
Basic marksmanship. (Stance, grip, sights, trigger control.)
Perhaps some basic information about self-defense--especially in the home.


The next step would be self-defense oriented classes that might cover things like:

Legalities of use of deadly force.
One handed firearm operation.
Reloading techniques.
perhaps shooting while moving.
Using cover/concealment.
Perhaps basic firearm retention.

Or you might find a class that is more CCW oriented that teaches things like:

Legalities of use of deadly force.
Concealment information.
Drawing and reholstering.
One handed firearm operation.
Reloading techniques.
perhaps shooting while moving.
Using cover/concealment.
Perhaps basic firearm retention.

That's just a very rough idea--any instructor could tailor a class differently. You might, for example, find a CCW class that is designed for people brand new to firearms. That class might emphasize the basics more and might only mention or lightly touch on more advanced techniques.

Shooting rapidly while maintaining accuracy is the product of:

Having a good grip.
Having good trigger control.
Practice.

[TunnelRat]

I think John has given you an excellent idea of what to look for. I'd reiterate having a conversation with the instructor/school ahead of time to figure out if what that course covers touches on the topics mentioned by John. I'd be leery of any school/instructor that isn't willing to give at least a brief synopsis of what is covered in a class, and most are happy to do so as they want you to get paired with the training you want/need.

[Skans]

The only firearms class I took that was worth a damn was with a private instructor. It was very physical, required that you be familiar with non-firearms defensive techniques as well as good experience with your firearm of choice, and concentrated on real-life scenarios.

It really made me think about when and how to deploy my firearm - distance from an attacker, alternatives to just going for your gun, etc. It also showed me why you never fire your gun while you are moving or running - you won't hit crap, as well as how to move, find cover, steady yourself and then fire. I know my effective range during an attack, etc. It was a solid 9 hours of training.

Scenarios ranged from mock ATM's, Restaurants, Parking Lots, Sidewalks, etc.

[eflyguy]

Most valuable training my daughter and I had was competition. USPSA while she was in high school. Rifle more recently.

No shortage of skilled shooters offering advice.

[reynolds357]

I think private lessons are well worth the money. You learn much faster and don't have to listen to all the nonsense and endless stupid questions and comments. Advanced classes are usually good, but intro classes can be quite the waste of your time unless you find the right instructor; which granted, that is exactly what you are trying to do.
You will learn more in two hours from a private instructor than you will learn in 10 hours in a group.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by reynolds357

I think private lessons are well worth the money. You learn much faster and don't have to listen to all the nonsense and endless stupid questions and comments. Advanced classes are usually good, but intro classes can be quite the waste of your time unless you find the right instructor; which granted, that is exactly what you are trying to do.
You will learn more in two hours from a private instructor than you will learn in 10 hours in a group.

I think that depends on the course and the instructor. Some of those “stupid questions” might also be relevant to the OP, especially if the OP really has no experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hikingman]

First choose your instructor, and one that is fairly close to your location might help.

I wouldn't want an instructor just because they have the creds, no way.

[DT Guy]

I just took a CC class from an instructor with a helacious resume; Special Forces, Federal Law Enforcement instructor and lots more.

What did I learn?

"Defensive Force is when you don't have justification to shoot someone in the chest, and so you shoot them in the arm."

Paraphrasing-"You need to shoot them enough that you don't get sued because they lived."

Paraphrasing-"And so I lower the gun, because I decide I don't need to ventilate anyone today."

And other, similar, nuggets of wisdom. My wife was with me, and on the way out I was ranting that she needed to forget everything she's just been told, and correcting the misstatements one-by-one.

She asked what the other folks who attended the class, who didn't know better, would do if they got in a serious situation...probably the wrong thing, I suppose.

I'll note that reviews for these classes were great-because the instructor was friendly and impressive to new shooters. They didn't know enough to know how inaccurate it was, and so their reviews reflected that.

Larry

[Rob228]

I just took a CC class from an instructor with a helacious resume; Special Forces, Federal Law Enforcement instructor and lots more.

Lots of guys with those creds have a hard time transitioning to teaching a different audience. The ones that can do really well. The ones that can't.... give you your experience.

[Shane Tuttle]

I wish I saw this thread earlier.

I used to live in Michigan. You need to consult Randy Cain. Many people say, "Who?" when I mention his name in the same breath as the Greats such as Jeff Cooper. Reason being is he doesn't seek fame. And he despises any "advanced" garbage that's being taught today. He will teach you safety first. And, let me tell you; he will drill it in your head before you're even allowed to step on the firing line. My wife and I took his course twice. I'm no Rob Leatham. But I came out of his courses with a very solid foundation of fundamentals that were more important than anything else I've ever been taught in the realm of safety, proper firearm handling, and defensive marksmanship.

He has a course coming up next month in Frankenmuth. Instead of buying another firearm, use the funds for his course. You won't be sorry.

https://www.guntactics.com/

Oh, and bring a little extra cash. At the time, he sold his custom made targets that are fantastic. He'll provide the details. I still have some left and break them out on special occasions and when I teach new shooters.

[jdmstanced]

i dont now the cost difference between the private lesson and a group lesson. But from my research it seems that michigan requires something like 10 hours of lesson in order to get a certificate of some sort?

so far i found this place to be the most trustworthy because of how much detail info they give. https://ccwtraining.com/training/mic...ay-1-location/
each class is like 8-10hrs. I don't know if it's one day. 8-10 hrs in a day seems pretty long.
what do you guys think about this place?

Also, is it possible for me to buy a gun without a license in michigan so that i can bring it to the class and learn about my gun then someone else's? I have Beretta or Sig in mind for my first gun.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by DT Guy

I just took a CC class from an instructor with a helacious resume; Special Forces, Federal Law Enforcement instructor and lots more.

What did I learn?

"Defensive Force is when you don't have justification to shoot someone in the chest, and so you shoot them in the arm."

Paraphrasing-"You need to shoot them enough that you don't get sued because they lived."

Paraphrasing-"And so I lower the gun, because I decide I don't need to ventilate anyone today."

And other, similar, nuggets of wisdom. My wife was with me, and on the way out I was ranting that she needed to forget everything she's just been told, and correcting the misstatements one-by-one.

She asked what the other folks who attended the class, who didn't know better, would do if they got in a serious situation...probably the wrong thing, I suppose.

I'll note that reviews for these classes were great-because the instructor was friendly and impressive to new shooters. They didn't know enough to know how inaccurate it was, and so their reviews reflected that.

Larry

Shooting in arm part was hilarious.
You didn't ask him about it?

[DT Guy]

Originally Posted by reynolds357

Shooting in arm part was hilarious.
You didn't ask him about it?

Honestly, I stayed fairly quiet. I try to go to ANY class with an open mind, and learn something new-that's the only way to get any value from classes after you've been through quite a few.

That said, there would have been no way to bring up all the contradictions he was throwing out; he also didn't understand the Castle Doctrine being an affirmative defense, and didn't understand many of the statutes referenced in the slides presented. I'm fairly sure he never saw the slides prior to the class.

It's hard to sit in a class and hear stuff taught you know is wrong, but the mechanics and politics of contradicting an instructor in his own class time after time is pretty difficult to make work....


Larry

[101combatvet]

I would look into the NRA classes, they are very well structured, and I believe they are worth the money. I have looked over many fly-by-night courses, and they may or may not be what they claim to be despite the reviews. Be careful of those claiming to be firearms experts; always seek professional help.

[101combatvet]

Originally Posted by DT Guy

I just took a CC class from an instructor with a helacious resume; Special Forces, Federal Law Enforcement instructor and lots more.

Having worked with many of these guys, I can tell you that the best organizations have their share of flakes.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by DT Guy

Honestly, I stayed fairly quiet. I try to go to ANY class with an open mind, and learn something new-that's the only way to get any value from classes after you've been through quite a few.

That said, there would have been no way to bring up all the contradictions he was throwing out; he also didn't understand the Castle Doctrine being an affirmative defense, and didn't understand many of the statutes referenced in the slides presented. I'm fairly sure he never saw the slides prior to the class.

It's hard to sit in a class and hear stuff taught you know is wrong, but the mechanics and politics of contradicting an instructor in his own class time after time is pretty difficult to make work....


Larry

I didn't say call him out as wrong. Ask him for clarification in such a way it becomes obvious he is wrong.

[DT Guy]

Originally Posted by reynolds357

I didn't say call him out as wrong. Ask him for clarification in such a way it becomes obvious he is wrong.

Yes, I understood that. Still hard to see the point-I wasn't going to make HIM see his errors (that would, at the least, take some references I'd suspect) and wouldn't have convinced his students of anything (he was the instructor, and I was just a guy in the class.)

I've considered calling to discuss it with him following the class, but suspect it wouldn't do a whole lot-he was very.....let's be polite and say 'confident' of his expertise.


Larry

[101combatvet]

Originally Posted by DT Guy

Yes, I understood that. Still hard to see the point-I wasn't going to make HIM see his errors (that would, at the least, take some references I'd suspect) and wouldn't have convinced his students of anything (he was the instructor, and I was just a guy in the class.)

I've considered calling to discuss it with him following the class, but suspect it wouldn't do a whole lot-he was very.....let's be polite and say 'confident' of his expertise.


Larry

You did the right thing.

[jdmstanced]

are there any stores that take cryptocurrency to purchase guns?

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by jdmstanced

are there any stores that take cryptocurrency to purchase guns?

Probably not. The only way to know is to call each store and ask.

Like Shane Tuttle, I arrived late to this thread. Looking through it, it appears to me that you have not explained what it is you hope to gain from a class. You also haven't told us what your current level of firearms training and experience is. Without knowing that and what Michigan requires as a prerequisite for a carry permit, we can't really advise you.

The progression outlined by John KSa in post #5 sums it up pretty well. It's important to recognize that he's not talking about one course. There's too much there for a neophyte to absorb in one class, or one weekend.

Please tell us more about your current level of firearms familiarity, and what you want to get out of a class.

For someone who has little or no experience with firearms (or with handguns), fundamentals of firearms handling and safety are the paramount issues to be addressed first. The NRA Basic Pistol class is fairly good for that, although some instructors don't think that class provides enough legal information about carrying a firearm (it's not intended to), or enough information about holsters and related aspects of carry (again, it's not intended to).

[DT Guy]

Originally Posted by jdmstanced

are there any stores that take cryptocurrency to purchase guns?

There are probably some, but be extremely cautious of any online seller who ONLY takes Zelle or crypto-those are numerous and uniformly scam sites.

Larry