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Old December 31, 2019, 08:15 AM   #26
jrinne0430
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Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
That's all well and good, but these resolutions are toothless at best and dangerous at worst. If it comes to a clash between state and county officials, are these sheriffs really going to back their statements with force? What then?

Consider the recent failure of these sanctuary policies in Kansas.
The intent is to send a message, especially for those state senators and delegates in the sanctuary counties.
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Old December 31, 2019, 10:35 AM   #27
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That's all well and good, but these resolutions are toothless at best and dangerous at worst. If it comes to a clash between state and county officials, are these sheriffs really going to back their statements with force? What then?
I thought sanctuary counties, cities, etc. were areas that law enforcement merely wouldn't enforce certain law(s). That is completely different than law enforcement of those areas using force to defend citizens breaking those laws.
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Old December 31, 2019, 12:01 PM   #28
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In case you haven't noticed the Democrat party plays hardball. The GOP just sits on their hands. We have Trump as president but the Republican Party is a mess, full of do nothings(or worse) Rinos. Virginia should be a lesson for the rest of us. This can happen in your state! If you think otherwise, shame on you.
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Old January 13, 2020, 06:08 PM   #29
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According to the NRA, Virginia Senate Judiciary Committee passed the below. Contact your state senator and tell them to oppose this!

Senate Bill 35 will destroy Virginia’s firearm preemption laws by allowing localities to create new “gun free zones” in and around public buildings and parks. Criminals will ignore these restrictions, leaving law-abiding citizens unable to defend themselves and their loved ones.

Senate Bill 69, commonly referred to as “one-gun-a-month,” would impose an arbitrary one gun limit on an individual’s right to lawfully purchase a handgun within 30 days.

Senate Bill 70 would ban many sales and transfers between private individuals without first paying fees and obtaining government permission. Firearm sales between friends, neighbors, or fellow hunters, would not be exempted. Transfers between family members are also likely to be banned based on the vague wording of the proposed legislation. This proposal would have no impact on crime and is completely unenforceable.

Senate Bill 240 looks to create so-called “Red Flag” gun confiscation orders. This bill will take your constitutionally-guaranteed rights and throw them out the window with insufficient due process in place.

This is only the beginning of our fight to protect the Second Amendment in Richmond, so it is critical for NRA Members and Second Amendment supporters to remain active and vigilant this entire session. These ill-conceived bills could receive a vote on the Senate Floor very soon and with no warning! Please contact your State Senator to OPPOSE Senate Bill 35, Senate Bill 69, Senate Bill 70, and Senate Bill 240. Standing together, we can turn the tide against the new anti-gun majority, but our resolve cannot waiver.
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Old January 13, 2020, 06:23 PM   #30
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if the republicans in the senate stay on the constitutional side, how many democrats in the senate need to do the same to prevent these anti 2nd amendment bills from passing?
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Old January 15, 2020, 07:06 PM   #31
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Gov. Northam looks like he is trying to create a scenario that will produce violence with the latest pro-2A rally. He’s actively trying to provoke/troll 2A supporters now.
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Old January 16, 2020, 03:44 AM   #32
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Actually, Northam is declaring a state of emergency before the protests even happen. Something about that strikes me as very sinister.
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Old January 16, 2020, 08:52 AM   #33
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We (i.e. 'the gun community') have done a great job maintaining a threatening tone on social media. "Boogaloo" talk and the like on Reddit, Facebook, etc., does not paint a pretty picture to those that we would aim to sway to our side of the debate. To me, the governor's response with a state of emergency declaration is a proper, measured response in that light, which plays to their favor immensely. He could find at this moment, hundreds if not thousands of examples online of what they can define as 'threatening' material.

We share this stuff all over the webs in jest, or in some cases with the upmost sincerity. But the audience is broad and we're not choosing our words carefully, especially for those that are on the fence.
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Old January 16, 2020, 10:08 AM   #34
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JERRYS. asked:
If the republicans in the senate stay on the constitutional side, how many democrats in the senate need to do the same to prevent these anti 2nd amendment bills from passing?
,
My count is 40 Virginia State Senators; 21 Democrats and 19 Republicans.
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Old January 16, 2020, 11:58 AM   #35
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Actually, Northam is declaring a state of emergency before the protests even happen. Something about that strikes me as very sinister.
If the protest rally is peaceable, then the governor can claim that his declaration of a state of emergency was the reason that nothing bad happened. He can still claim that the participants are a danger, and can claim that they are linked to subversive groups. It's a way to control the public perception of the protest participants and put them in a bad light.
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Old January 16, 2020, 01:00 PM   #36
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I can sort of understand why they fear violence from gun owners.
Every news forum is full of right wingers threatening civil war.
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Old January 16, 2020, 02:22 PM   #37
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"I can sort of understand why they fear violence from gun owners."

Yeah, and then have every one of them 'red flagged' for participating in a threatening manner. Let the confiscation begin! It won't be pretty.
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Old January 16, 2020, 03:12 PM   #38
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I somewhat agree with rickyrick and Marka. While I think the boogaloo memes have been hot air and jest, intellectual honesty says you shouldn’t get mad when something you say “in jest,” but is not clearly denoted as such, is used against you at a later time. Yes, some of that talk hasn’t helped.

The gun grabbers are far overplaying their hand I think. Elections do have consequences... but so do ramming radical agendas through with a razor thin majority days after being sworn in. The Democratic Party learned that in the 2010 midterms, and the agenda pushed in the first 2 years of the Obama presidency wasn’t even that radical (outside of the ACA, and I still don’t call that “radical” just not broadly supported by the public).
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Old January 16, 2020, 03:33 PM   #39
JERRYS.
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with very few exceptions, once an anti 2nd amendment law is on the books is almost never removed. the federal "awb" was removed only because it had a self imposed sunset date. otherwise we'd still have it. good luck Virginia.
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Old January 16, 2020, 03:53 PM   #40
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I disagree with what MarkA and rickyrick have said. I mean, is that the ideal world I’d like to live in? Sure. Is that an approach that is going to get us results? Well, we’ve got 20 years of history to look at. Has it worked yet?

If I get a democratically approved 51% vote to violate your wife, is the proper response to file suit and allow me to violate your wife until 10 years in the future when the Court MAY decide that’s an unconstitutional law?

The state of Virginia is talking about taking lawfully owned property from peaceable citizens because of things they might hypothetically do, despite decades of evidence to the contrary in some cases. That doesn’t deserve a TFL-approved response in my view. We’re now just left debating whether the TFL-sanctioned view is the practical response, violations aside.

This isn’t going to be solved by the legal system. It is going to be solved by citizens standing up for what they believe in. The citizens of Virginia are well within their rights to resort to civil disobedience to protest unjust laws. The problem is, with the 2A being the right at stake, it is very easy for that to blow up in your face and set your cause back - false flag, random idiots, etc.

On a related note: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...ontrol-protest

To further extrapolate, here is a leftist group with a confirmed history of violence who is going to be marching in support of the 2A:
https://dailycaller.com/2020/01/16/a...ters-virginia/

Last edited by Bartholomew Roberts; January 16, 2020 at 07:48 PM.
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Old January 17, 2020, 05:25 PM   #41
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"Boogaloo" talk and the like on Reddit, Facebook, etc., does not paint a pretty picture to those that we would aim to sway to our side of the debate.
The problem is, it's indicative of how the newest couple of generations think and act. They don't vote because none of the candidates are perfect. They don't support the NRA because they haven't gotten the NFA repealed. They don't contact their elected officials because they think it's a better use of their time to post gripes and childish memes on social media.

(On the rare occasions they DO get in touch with legislators, it's a bundle of confrontational recycled slogans and vague threats.)

The gun subs on Reddit are a particularly distressing window into this. They treat armed insurrection as something to be encouraged but have no inkling of what a truly horrific thing that would be. I am VERY worried about these rallies in Virginia. It just takes one guy to have an ND or pick a fight with the police, and things will get ugly for all of us.

If this is what we can expect going forward, I worry that I'll live to see the end of the RKBA in this country.
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Old January 17, 2020, 07:24 PM   #42
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One way to reference all of the fallout in VA is a result of the promised and impending siege of the people by the Northam aggression.

Shamelessly ripped from some soul I do not know on twitter. Filthy place to observe the barbarians at our gate.
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Old January 17, 2020, 09:31 PM   #43
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I am VERY worried about these rallies in Virginia. It just takes one guy to have an ND or pick a fight with the police, and things will get ugly for all of us.

If this is what we can expect going forward, I worry that I'll live to see the end of the RKBA in this country.
I'd rather see the anti-gun forces try and take away all our 2nd Amendment rights in one fell swoop than in an agonizing, incremental death. If the 2nd Amendment effectively dies in either case, I will take care of my responsibilities in this country and then renounce my U.S. Citzenship in another.
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Old January 18, 2020, 05:42 AM   #44
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I'd rather see the anti-gun forces try and take away all our 2nd Amendment rights in one fell swoop than in an agonizing, incremental death.
They know better. This goes back to the late 1970s, when Pete Shields (founder of HCI) published their strategy of incrementalism. Things like Sandy Hook just helped accelerate the timetable. They've honed their messaging, built coalitions, and raised money.

Meanwhile, the vast majority of gun owners sit on the couch and complain when someone else didn't stop it from happening. Heck, most don't even vote. They can do all the rallies they want; Virginia is a lost cause.
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Old January 18, 2020, 08:30 AM   #45
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The problem is, it's indicative of how the newest couple of generations think and act. They don't vote because none of the candidates are perfect. They don't support the NRA because they haven't gotten the NFA repealed. They don't contact their elected officials because they think it's a better use of their time to post gripes and childish memes on social media.

(On the rare occasions they DO get in touch with legislators, it's a bundle of confrontational recycled slogans and vague threats.)

The gun subs on Reddit are a particularly distressing window into this. They treat armed insurrection as something to be encouraged but have no inkling of what a truly horrific thing that would be. I am VERY worried about these rallies in Virginia. It just takes one guy to have an ND or pick a fight with the police, and things will get ugly for all of us.

If this is what we can expect going forward, I worry that I'll live to see the end of the RKBA in this country.
I agree..it's like one guy making a RKBA 'point' by strolling around a park with a loaded AR, times a Bazillion..This 'may' get ugly and if it does, it will not help the RKBA side.
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Old January 18, 2020, 10:00 AM   #46
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Heck, most don't even vote.
They'll vote next time.
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Old January 18, 2020, 10:54 AM   #47
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They can do all the rallies they want; Virginia is a lost cause.
My fear is that when Virginia is lost, the remaining 49 will quickly follow. In less than one generation, the Second Amendment will be nothing but a memory to us old farts.

The generation starting 2020 should be called "Generation G". G for guns. That generation will see the loss of guns for citizens.
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Old January 18, 2020, 01:29 PM   #48
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My fear is that when Virginia is lost, the remaining 49 will quickly follow
California is no doubt watching carefully.

I agree that weekend commandos strolling around with their ARs gives a bad image. The media will focus on the worst of them....obese, paranoid...perhaps even mentally challenged.

The irony here is that the medias are reporting of the potential dangers of this rally, completely ignoring the fact that the governor of Virginia is himself responsible of creating the circumstances of the situation with his insane laws.

Does Virginia not have a recall option?
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Old January 18, 2020, 02:41 PM   #49
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The irony here is that the medias...
Another irony is that St. John's Episcopal Church is just a few blocks away, and that's where Patrick Henry said, "give me liberty, or give me death."

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Old January 18, 2020, 03:45 PM   #50
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They can do all the rallies they want; Virginia is a lost cause.
I think you are wrong. Lord I hope you are wrong.

One fluke off year election where the Anti gun party achieved a razor thin majority because the opposing party didn’t field candidates in several critical races does not make a state a lost cause. I remember when Obama won in 2008 and every major news organization was harping on how the Republican Party had been banished into the wilderness. Well, they didn’t stay there very long as they easily retook congress in 2010.

I get it, VA is not the reliably conservative southern state it once was. The northern third of the state is pretty much a suburb to DC, and transplants have shifted the populace some. But it hasn’t changed that radically, as judged by over 90% of the counties passing 2A sanctuary resolutions. No I see a very galvanized opposition for any democrat running for any public office South of Alexandria for a long time to come. Laws may be passed in the meantime. Laws that stand at least a moderate chance of being repealed next election cycle. Being the party in power usually doesn’t last long unless you are in a very reliable state such as California for Dems or South Carolina for Republicans. Outside of some extremely reliable states, everything in the middle usually swings like a pendulum pretty reliably. This is how political history has been pretty much since the end of WW2.

Of course I could be wrong. But I hope not. And I absolutely agree on the insurrection crap. While I think there is a time and place for armed resistance against a government, we aren’t there yet. Any talk of such is... not appropriate now.
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