30-06 load close to Winchester.

Blindstitch · February 24, 2017, 05:02 PM

I know this is a tough question but I have a U.S. Model of 1917 sporterized and it likes Winchester 30-06 powerpoint 150 grain ammo. Does anyone know a load powder/bullet combo that would get me on or close for range practice ammo.

It boasts a 2920 velocity with the 150 grain. I hate wasting brass and I was given 300 .308 projectiles that I want to use up.

Blindstitch · February 24, 2017, 05:11 PM

I have a cousin that suggests IMR4350 and 58 grains pushing a 150 grain projectile.

I currently only use 3031 and 4064 powder. Willing to buy a different powder but it would be nice it that also worked well with 30-40 krag.

jmr40 · February 24, 2017, 06:25 PM

Around 2900 fps is a pretty typical factory load for 30-06/150's. Most any loading manual will show something. I use H4350 and load about 59-60 gr which is about 2-3 gr below max. I usually get right at 3000 fps.

I'm sure you can find something here

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

Slamfire · February 24, 2017, 07:24 PM

Your M1917 was issued with ammunition that pushed a 150 grain bullet at 2700 fps. I have occasionally tested US military ammunition and pretty much, that velocity requirement was kept till the 30-06 was out of inventory.

I recommend a 150 grain bullet with 47.0 grains IMR 4895.

Code:

M98 30-06 26"  1-10 Wilson Barrel		
						
						
150 gr FMJBT TW 56 Ball				
		 			 	
 24 Mar 04 T= 70 ° F					
						
Ave Vel =	2680				 	 
Std Dev =	31				 	 
ES =	78				 	 
Low =	2620				 	
High =	2698				 	
N =	6		 			
						
						
150 gr FMJBT 1966 Ball 				
		 				
14 Nov 2011 T= 68 ° F				
						
Ave Vel =	2596					
Std Dev =	47					
ES =	190					
Low =	2498					
High =	2688					
						
Group Size: Surprisingly good ammunition.			
						
150 gr Sierra Match HPBT 47.5 IMR 4895 CCI#34 WW2 cases 
		 			OAL 3.290"
 24 Mar 04 T= 70 ° F					
						
Ave Vel =	2722				 	 
Std Dev =	26				 	 
ES =	76				 	 
Low =	2673				 	
High =	2749				 	
N =	10					
						
Group Size: All in ten ring, very mild load, primers backed out.

**44 AMP** · February 24, 2017, 07:51 PM

2900fps with a 150gr can be done with top end loads with any of the IMR rifle powders from 3031 up through 4350 (and many other powders as well). A quick check of a couple of my old books shows .5gr to 1gr difference in max charges using 3031 and 4064, both in the 2900 fps range.

You don't NEED a new powder, but you might want one, as some powders shoot noticeably better groups in some rifles than others.

GI ammo, 150gr ball (M2) is spec'd to give 2750fps +/- and was the original ammo for the 1917 Enfield.

The 1917 bolt action is strong enough to run the hotter 2900fps commercial 06 loads without issues.

I don't load 06 to commercial levels, only to GI spec and use IMR 4895, for that, as well as loads in other milsurp calibers.

jmr40 · February 24, 2017, 08:23 PM

2700 fps was the standard load during WW-1, but by WW-2 the standard 30-06 load was 2800 fps. If loading for a Garand staying close to 2800 fps is probably a good idea for functioning. Almost all common hunting loads now are about 2900 fps, but that it still REALLY conservative for any modern bolt rifle. It isn't a big deal to get 3100 fps from a 24" barrel with several published loads. I probably wouldn't shoot 3100 fps loads from a 100 year old rifle though.

Dufus · February 24, 2017, 08:23 PM

I have one that was built in 1918.

It is the most accurate rifle of that class that I have.

47.0 gr H4895 with Speer 150 gr Hot Cor shoots a 3/8" 10 shot group at 100 yds.

My Dad bought it in 1962 and hunted with it until 2008 when age got the best of him and he no longer hunts, so he handed it over to me a few years ago.

That rifle put a lot of game meat in the freezer during that time period with that load.

Blindstitch · February 24, 2017, 09:18 PM

Dufus,
I like your story.

Mine if you want to call it that was bought sometime in the late 60's by my Grandpa. It was his primary hunting gun for a while. Then lent to an Uncle when he was stationed in Colorado. My grandpa then used it till the early 90's when he went to a shotgun and buckshot.

After he died in 2004 it went to my dad who used it as his second deer rifle. He always shot a deer with his Marlin first.

Last year he wasn't happy with the knock down power of my 6.5 jap because I shot and recovered an 8 point without making a blood trail. On a bow hunt this year he asked me what I was going to use and I said I didn't know. He then told me I could borrow the 06 when I hunted with him. Come opening day I shot a 5 point with it and asked him what he wanted me to do with it when I was done.

He just said "Take it home with you."

Oh I forgot to mention I shot that 5 point through the top of the heart and it dropped in its tracks.

Dufus · February 25, 2017, 12:38 PM

Blind stitch: your story is classic as well. I hope you keep it in the family for a long time.

T. O'Heir · February 25, 2017, 02:20 PM

The manufacturers do not publish what components they use. It could be an entirely different powder from one lot to another as they load for a specific velocity range at a specific pressure. Reloaders cannot buy the powders they use anyway.
In any case, 2920fps is close to max for most .30-06 loads. And you really need to work up the load for accuracy not just try and duplicate a factory load. Any of the typical .30 M1906(150 grains, flat based ,at 2700 fps)/.30 M1(174.5 gr., BT at 2647 fps.) /M2(152 gr., flat based, at 2800 fps after 1940) ball powders will do 2900ish with max loads. That'd be IMR or H 4895, IMR 4064 or Varget among others.

SHR970 · February 25, 2017, 03:03 PM

If you are looking for a factory duplication load: 54 gr. W760 / H414. WLR.

ShootistPRS · February 25, 2017, 03:16 PM

SHR is giving you the correct duplicate load for The Winchester ammo.

It is loaded in Winchester cases obviously and it is almost half way between the Hodgdon start and maximum loads.

I would start a grain below and work up to find your most accurate load.

Blindstitch · February 25, 2017, 08:11 PM

Thanks guys. That really gives me a place to start.

Blindstitch · February 25, 2017, 08:26 PM

T. O'Heir,

Lymans 44th shows IMR 4350, 57.3 grains 2865 pushing a 150 grain projectile as a Factory Duplication Load.

Starting grains 55
Max grains 61.
57.3 is right near the middle.

If I can fine tune a factory duplication or suggestion for better accuracy I will.

Knowing the election went the way it did I hope I can walk into the place I get my powder with a list of 3 and have a choice instead of before when beggars couldn't be choosers.

GeauxTide · February 26, 2017, 06:25 PM

I've used 52gr of 4064 for years in a half dozen rifles and they've all shot 5/8" cloverleaves. I'd have no problem using it in my 1917 and Hornady Interlocks.

Blindstitch · March 5, 2017, 12:23 AM

Can't believe the low level of powder I saw today but I ended up picking up some IMR 4350 for $25. Kind of interesting that the place I went had 4064 for $220 for 8 pounds and 4350 for $174 for 8 pounds.

Only $1 difference for one pound.

February 24, 2017, 05:02 PM	#1
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,692	30-06 load close to Winchester. I know this is a tough question but I have a U.S. Model of 1917 sporterized and it likes Winchester 30-06 powerpoint 150 grain ammo. Does anyone know a load powder/bullet combo that would get me on or close for range practice ammo. It boasts a 2920 velocity with the 150 grain. I hate wasting brass and I was given 300 .308 projectiles that I want to use up.

February 24, 2017, 07:51 PM	#5
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,824	2900fps with a 150gr can be done with top end loads with any of the IMR rifle powders from 3031 up through 4350 (and many other powders as well). A quick check of a couple of my old books shows .5gr to 1gr difference in max charges using 3031 and 4064, both in the 2900 fps range. You don't NEED a new powder, but you might want one, as some powders shoot noticeably better groups in some rifles than others. GI ammo, 150gr ball (M2) is spec'd to give 2750fps +/- and was the original ammo for the 1917 Enfield. The 1917 bolt action is strong enough to run the hotter 2900fps commercial 06 loads without issues. I don't load 06 to commercial levels, only to GI spec and use IMR 4895, for that, as well as loads in other milsurp calibers. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 24, 2017, 08:23 PM	#6
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,806	2700 fps was the standard load during WW-1, but by WW-2 the standard 30-06 load was 2800 fps. If loading for a Garand staying close to 2800 fps is probably a good idea for functioning. Almost all common hunting loads now are about 2900 fps, but that it still REALLY conservative for any modern bolt rifle. It isn't a big deal to get 3100 fps from a 24" barrel with several published loads. I probably wouldn't shoot 3100 fps loads from a 100 year old rifle though. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

February 25, 2017, 02:20 PM	#10
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	The manufacturers do not publish what components they use. It could be an entirely different powder from one lot to another as they load for a specific velocity range at a specific pressure. Reloaders cannot buy the powders they use anyway. In any case, 2920fps is close to max for most .30-06 loads. And you really need to work up the load for accuracy not just try and duplicate a factory load. Any of the typical .30 M1906(150 grains, flat based ,at 2700 fps)/.30 M1(174.5 gr., BT at 2647 fps.) /M2(152 gr., flat based, at 2800 fps after 1940) ball powders will do 2900ish with max loads. That'd be IMR or H 4895, IMR 4064 or Varget among others. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

February 26, 2017, 06:25 PM	#15
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	IMR 4064 I've used 52gr of 4064 for years in a half dozen rifles and they've all shot 5/8" cloverleaves. I'd have no problem using it in my 1917 and Hornady Interlocks.

February 24, 2017, 05:11 PM	#2
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,692	I have a cousin that suggests IMR4350 and 58 grains pushing a 150 grain projectile. I currently only use 3031 and 4064 powder. Willing to buy a different powder but it would be nice it that also worked well with 30-40 krag.

February 24, 2017, 06:25 PM	#3
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,806	Around 2900 fps is a pretty typical factory load for 30-06/150's. Most any loading manual will show something. I use H4350 and load about 59-60 gr which is about 2-3 gr below max. I usually get right at 3000 fps. I'm sure you can find something here http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

February 24, 2017, 08:23 PM	#7
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	I have one that was built in 1918. It is the most accurate rifle of that class that I have. 47.0 gr H4895 with Speer 150 gr Hot Cor shoots a 3/8" 10 shot group at 100 yds. My Dad bought it in 1962 and hunted with it until 2008 when age got the best of him and he no longer hunts, so he handed it over to me a few years ago. That rifle put a lot of game meat in the freezer during that time period with that load.

February 24, 2017, 09:18 PM	#8
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,692	Dufus, I like your story. Mine if you want to call it that was bought sometime in the late 60's by my Grandpa. It was his primary hunting gun for a while. Then lent to an Uncle when he was stationed in Colorado. My grandpa then used it till the early 90's when he went to a shotgun and buckshot. After he died in 2004 it went to my dad who used it as his second deer rifle. He always shot a deer with his Marlin first. Last year he wasn't happy with the knock down power of my 6.5 jap because I shot and recovered an 8 point without making a blood trail. On a bow hunt this year he asked me what I was going to use and I said I didn't know. He then told me I could borrow the 06 when I hunted with him. Come opening day I shot a 5 point with it and asked him what he wanted me to do with it when I was done. He just said "Take it home with you." Oh I forgot to mention I shot that 5 point through the top of the heart and it dropped in its tracks.

February 25, 2017, 12:38 PM	#9
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	Blind stitch: your story is classic as well. I hope you keep it in the family for a long time.

February 25, 2017, 03:03 PM	#11
SHR970 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 1,427	If you are looking for a factory duplication load: 54 gr. W760 / H414. WLR.

February 25, 2017, 03:16 PM	#12
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	SHR is giving you the correct duplicate load for The Winchester ammo. It is loaded in Winchester cases obviously and it is almost half way between the Hodgdon start and maximum loads. I would start a grain below and work up to find your most accurate load.

February 25, 2017, 08:11 PM	#13
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,692	Thanks guys. That really gives me a place to start.

February 25, 2017, 08:26 PM	#14
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,692	T. O'Heir, Lymans 44th shows IMR 4350, 57.3 grains 2865 pushing a 150 grain projectile as a Factory Duplication Load. Starting grains 55 Max grains 61. 57.3 is right near the middle. If I can fine tune a factory duplication or suggestion for better accuracy I will. Knowing the election went the way it did I hope I can walk into the place I get my powder with a list of 3 and have a choice instead of before when beggars couldn't be choosers.

March 5, 2017, 12:23 AM	#16
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,692	Can't believe the low level of powder I saw today but I ended up picking up some IMR 4350 for $25. Kind of interesting that the place I went had 4064 for $220 for 8 pounds and 4350 for $174 for 8 pounds. Only $1 difference for one pound.