Brinnell Hardness Rating For Wheel Weight Cast Bullets ???

10 Spot Terminator · March 17, 2008, 07:44 AM

Am gearing up to cast bullets for the first time and am finding that the harder lead castings seem to gain the most favor among lead casters/shooters for keeping leading down in barrels . I dont plan to load for more than 3 calibres I own and cant justify the exspense of buying a BHN tester . Can anyone tell me what to expect for a hardness rating on wheel weight castings ? I have nearly 75 lbs of them from about 7 years ago that should be pure lead . Is there anything I should add to them to get the BHN up where it should be ? If so what percentage should I be adding to gleaned ingots from the weights ? Thanks for helping guys . 10 SPOT .

Hawg · March 17, 2008, 08:09 AM

Wheel weights are not pure lead tho the stick on weights are close to it. Clip on weights by themselves are hard enough. I don't know what the hardness is but I've used straight wheel weights in a .44 mag. with no leading.

Gbro · March 17, 2008, 08:35 AM

I use my thumbnail to check for pure lead(or very close) as I can easily scratch it. I do this for muzzle load/cap'n ball.
When i cast for anything else, I have lots of Linotype in reserve.
i have a simple balance beam and do 50/50 lead/linotype.
I should get the Lee tester

Leeman · March 17, 2008, 08:36 AM

Beg, buy, or borrow a copy of Modern Reloading Second Edition and read Chapter 10. It is very easy to match the hardness to the correct charge. Do it the hard way and you will waste components, foul your barrels with difficult to remove lead, and become frustrated. I have been there and done that.

SL1 · March 17, 2008, 08:39 AM

"Wheel weights" don't have an industry standard composition, and it has changed over the years. So, hardness changes too. Most casters seem to just add enough tin to make the bullet metal cast well, rather than to hit a specific hardness. The combination of antimony and tin is what makes the alloy harden.

Hardness also changes with how fast the cast bullets are cooled after leaving the mould.

I don't have a hardness tester, either. But, published info indicates that wheel weights are about:
8 BHN immediately after casting and air-cooling
12 BHN about 2 weeks after casting with air-cooling
14-16 BHN in about 2 weeks if tin is added to the mix and air-cooled
18-30 BHN if water quenched
25-35 BHN if heat-treated in an oven and water quenched.

Note that cast bullets hardened by heating and quenching will soften with age at a rate that depends on ambient temperature. After a year or two, bullets heat-treated to values as high as 35 BHN may drop as low as 21 BHN. Keeping them in the freezer until they are going to be used will preserve their hardness. (Let them warm-up before firing.)

Others who may want to kibitz these hardness values should note that my sources are a combination of NRA publications, Lyman publications and "Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets" by Veral Smith. These sources do not all agree exactly, so I have subjectively married the data into the table above.

SL1

winchester243 · March 17, 2008, 09:13 AM

Look around this site for a while. Great info on alloys/hardness etc.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm

freakshow10mm · March 17, 2008, 09:46 AM

That link is a good reference.

WW can vary anywhere from 9-12 BHN depending on what factory made them.

They can be water dropped to 20-24 BHN.

Heat treating them can raise the BHN to over 30.

WSM MAGNUM · March 17, 2008, 11:18 AM

If you read over some articles in that link that Winchester posted, you will also see that going to harder cast bullets is not neccessary. It is the bullets fit that is the most important.
I have learned a lot from that website. Also getting Lyman`s Cast Bullet Handbook is a must for cast reloaders.

TexasSeaRay · March 17, 2008, 11:29 AM

Hardness does not matter so much as velocity.

ANY lead bullet can/will lead the barrell at a high enough velocity.

You didn't mention what calibers you plan to cast for.

I like shooting .38 Special 148 WC, 44 Special 240 SWC and 45 SWC--all three are low velocity rounds, thus the BHN doesn't matter so much to me. What does matter is that the bullet is cast well--a good fill, no wrinkles, etc etc.--so that I can get the consistency and accuracy I'm seeking.

Jeff

10 Spot Terminator · March 17, 2008, 10:07 PM

Am looking to do some reduced loads for my .41 mag as well as my .357 mag and then last but not least some faster than normal rounds for my .32-20 savage sporter that will slide along about 1700 fps , and guys this cartridge is capable of much hotter loads than most data published as a combonation rifle / pistol round. Savvy .32-20 buffs list only a very few lever guns and only 2 vintage bolt rifles as being capable of handling the hotter loads and the Savage is one of them . My sweetheart rabbit thumper is a 90 gr sierra traveling just at 2100 fps and will do an inch at 100 yds. minor puddling on the primers is the only pressure sign on this load. What an absolute fun gun to shoot and have brought up several junior shooters with this one . Most jacket stuff is hollow point for handgun and would like to change that up with lead casts.

Wiljen · March 18, 2008, 10:21 AM

For your reduced 41 and 357 loads air-cooled wheel weights should do just fine. For the 32-20 at 1700 you are on the border of needing either a water-dropped bullet or a gaschecked bullet to keep it from leading. Most conventional wisdom is that at about 1400-1500 fps you need a gascheck although some have had good luck with hard plain based bullets up to 1800-1900 fps.

10 Spot Terminator · March 18, 2008, 11:35 PM

Thanks for all the great info guys ! I especially liked the postings for some extreme websites dedicated to casting of bullets . I need to retire or something , not enough hours in the day to pursue all of this data . Thanks again guys . 10 Spot .

March 17, 2008, 07:44 AM	#1
10 Spot Terminator Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2008 Location: Central Oregon Posts: 348	Brinnell Hardness Rating For Wheel Weight Cast Bullets ??? Am gearing up to cast bullets for the first time and am finding that the harder lead castings seem to gain the most favor among lead casters/shooters for keeping leading down in barrels . I dont plan to load for more than 3 calibres I own and cant justify the exspense of buying a BHN tester . Can anyone tell me what to expect for a hardness rating on wheel weight castings ? I have nearly 75 lbs of them from about 7 years ago that should be pure lead . Is there anything I should add to them to get the BHN up where it should be ? If so what percentage should I be adding to gleaned ingots from the weights ? Thanks for helping guys . 10 SPOT .

March 17, 2008, 08:35 AM	#3
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	I use my thumbnail to check for pure lead(or very close) as I can easily scratch it. I do this for muzzle load/cap'n ball. When i cast for anything else, I have lots of Linotype in reserve. i have a simple balance beam and do 50/50 lead/linotype. I should get the Lee tester __________________ Gbro CGVS For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18

March 17, 2008, 08:36 AM	#4
Leeman Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Posts: 58	Save a lot of time, effort, and money. Beg, buy, or borrow a copy of Modern Reloading Second Edition and read Chapter 10. It is very easy to match the hardness to the correct charge. Do it the hard way and you will waste components, foul your barrels with difficult to remove lead, and become frustrated. I have been there and done that.

March 17, 2008, 11:18 AM	#8
WSM MAGNUM Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 750	If you read over some articles in that link that Winchester posted, you will also see that going to harder cast bullets is not neccessary. It is the bullets fit that is the most important. I have learned a lot from that website. Also getting Lyman`s Cast Bullet Handbook is a must for cast reloaders. __________________ Henry - Life NRA Member, USCCA Shield Member If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?

March 17, 2008, 11:29 AM	#9
TexasSeaRay Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 810	Hardness does not matter so much as velocity. ANY lead bullet can/will lead the barrell at a high enough velocity. You didn't mention what calibers you plan to cast for. I like shooting .38 Special 148 WC, 44 Special 240 SWC and 45 SWC--all three are low velocity rounds, thus the BHN doesn't matter so much to me. What does matter is that the bullet is cast well--a good fill, no wrinkles, etc etc.--so that I can get the consistency and accuracy I'm seeking. Jeff __________________ If every single gun owner belonged to the NRA as well as their respective state rifle/gun association, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today. So to those of you who are members of neither, thanks for nothing.

March 17, 2008, 08:09 AM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Wheel weights are not pure lead tho the stick on weights are close to it. Clip on weights by themselves are hard enough. I don't know what the hardness is but I've used straight wheel weights in a .44 mag. with no leading.

March 17, 2008, 08:39 AM	#5
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	"Wheel weights" don't have an industry standard composition, and it has changed over the years. So, hardness changes too. Most casters seem to just add enough tin to make the bullet metal cast well, rather than to hit a specific hardness. The combination of antimony and tin is what makes the alloy harden. Hardness also changes with how fast the cast bullets are cooled after leaving the mould. I don't have a hardness tester, either. But, published info indicates that wheel weights are about: 8 BHN immediately after casting and air-cooling 12 BHN about 2 weeks after casting with air-cooling 14-16 BHN in about 2 weeks if tin is added to the mix and air-cooled 18-30 BHN if water quenched 25-35 BHN if heat-treated in an oven and water quenched. Note that cast bullets hardened by heating and quenching will soften with age at a rate that depends on ambient temperature. After a year or two, bullets heat-treated to values as high as 35 BHN may drop as low as 21 BHN. Keeping them in the freezer until they are going to be used will preserve their hardness. (Let them warm-up before firing.) Others who may want to kibitz these hardness values should note that my sources are a combination of NRA publications, Lyman publications and "Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets" by Veral Smith. These sources do not all agree exactly, so I have subjectively married the data into the table above. SL1

March 17, 2008, 09:13 AM	#6
winchester243 Member Join Date: January 10, 2008 Location: MT Posts: 69	Look around this site for a while. Great info on alloys/hardness etc. http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm

March 17, 2008, 09:46 AM	#7
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	That link is a good reference. WW can vary anywhere from 9-12 BHN depending on what factory made them. They can be water dropped to 20-24 BHN. Heat treating them can raise the BHN to over 30.

March 17, 2008, 10:07 PM	#10
10 Spot Terminator Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2008 Location: Central Oregon Posts: 348	Sorry For The Lack Of Info On My Part ,,,, Doh !!! Am looking to do some reduced loads for my .41 mag as well as my .357 mag and then last but not least some faster than normal rounds for my .32-20 savage sporter that will slide along about 1700 fps , and guys this cartridge is capable of much hotter loads than most data published as a combonation rifle / pistol round. Savvy .32-20 buffs list only a very few lever guns and only 2 vintage bolt rifles as being capable of handling the hotter loads and the Savage is one of them . My sweetheart rabbit thumper is a 90 gr sierra traveling just at 2100 fps and will do an inch at 100 yds. minor puddling on the primers is the only pressure sign on this load. What an absolute fun gun to shoot and have brought up several junior shooters with this one . Most jacket stuff is hollow point for handgun and would like to change that up with lead casts.

March 18, 2008, 10:21 AM	#11
Wiljen Junior Member Join Date: February 27, 2008 Location: TN Posts: 10	For your reduced 41 and 357 loads air-cooled wheel weights should do just fine. For the 32-20 at 1700 you are on the border of needing either a water-dropped bullet or a gaschecked bullet to keep it from leading. Most conventional wisdom is that at about 1400-1500 fps you need a gascheck although some have had good luck with hard plain based bullets up to 1800-1900 fps. __________________ Cast Bullet Information http://www.Castpics.net Reloading Data Project http://sourceforge.net/projects/reloadersrfrnce/

March 18, 2008, 11:35 PM	#12
10 Spot Terminator Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2008 Location: Central Oregon Posts: 348	Once Again You Guys Came Through Like Saints !!! Thanks for all the great info guys ! I especially liked the postings for some extreme websites dedicated to casting of bullets . I need to retire or something , not enough hours in the day to pursue all of this data . Thanks again guys . 10 Spot .