What is best for home defense in an apartment/condo

[TunnelRat]

Given the OP hasn't been back since 2007, my guess is he's going to be quiet.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[dyl]

LOL someone resurrected a Zombie thread for their first post. How timely. I had forgotten to check for the annual zombie thread sub-forums on Halloween so here I get to have my fill.

My answer: regardless of the dwelling, whatever I and my spouse and someday my kids are most familiar with. If I was living in an apartment where a landlord or maintenance crew have keys, the best firearm would probably be the one I carried on me throughout the day and is on me when I come back to the apartment. That is unless a caliber change is desirable when I get home... But if I was uncomfortable relying on 380 ACP or something for home defense, I should probably be uncomfortable relying on it as an EDC most of the time and seek to carry larger when possible.

[FireForged]

if I am having to fight alone, I want a very wieldy weapon which is difficult to take away from me and conducive to moving in a confined space. Its a handgun all day long. If I had the luxury of fighting with a team, I would want a carbine. The shotgun would come in last place

[dyl]

I find that if someone doesn't have their own land, or lives in suburban / urban areas it's more difficult to find a place to practice with a long gun at short ranges.

[davidsog]

Holy Necrothread!!!!

[dyl]

Holy Necrothread!!!!

I know! But I don't feel bad about continuing this one because: it wasn't my fault this time

I *DO* want to point out something: Since 2006 when this thread was first created, the AR15 has plummeted in price with every company and their cousin sourcing parts both locally and from China, stamping their brand name on them. There are plenty of "good" brands though, no longer is the only answer "get a Colt" or get a Mini 14 and wish you actually had a Colt

It's the golden age of the AR, and the golden age of AR pistols allowing one to bypass SBR'ing their rifle as long as they install a pistol brace.

I wonder if this were put to a poll, if the availability of AR15's would push the answer over to more people answering a home defense question with AR's or AR Pistols. So far it doesn't seem so.

[Cheapshooter]

Just some "food" (watermelon) for thought:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uZPC4Ht6c5E

If you are concerned about collateral damage, why would you use buck shot?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zaR1EVybUgc&t=6s

Never doubt the effectiveness of bird shot for close range home defense.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gq3RVvL9ZjU

[Cheapshooter]

A shot gun will at some point "spread", and pellets may go into rooms you don't intend.

To get enough "spread" to go into unintended rooms you would have to be on one heck of a big appartment. As the question was asked about SD in apartment living. Even in a house, unless you lived in some 10,000+ sq ft mansion with huge rooms, and long halls, the pattern isn't going to open up as big as a human torso. Even a skinny guy.

[MTT TL]

I wonder if this were put to a poll, if the availability of AR15's would push the answer over to more people answering a home defense question with AR's or AR Pistols. So far it doesn't seem so.

That is because it is an apartment building. The odds of hitting your neighbors unintentionally skyrockets in such tight living quarters. In a cheaply constructed apartment building the 5.56 might travel through two or three apartments before stopping.

[Bozz10mm]

A good option for an apartment or condo dweller might be a Mossberg Shockwave. Get an Opsol adapter and load the Mossberg with the buckshot Aquila mini shells or the new Federal Shorties. You'll be able to get about 10 shells in the tube and the mini shells won't penetrate as many walls as the 2¾" shells.

[jar]

Never underestimate low tech.

In an apartment it's pretty hard to beat a good sharp hatchet or bolo and a knife.

[Bozz10mm]

Never underestimate low tech.

In an apartment it's pretty hard to beat a good sharp hatchet or bolo and a knife.

Perhaps if the intruder were unarmed, but otherwise I would prefer a firearm.

[Cheapshooter]

^^^

In an apartment it's pretty hard to beat a good sharp hatchet or bolo and a knife.

Never bring a knife to a gun fight!

[ammo.crafter]

Use what you shoot best...practice defensive shooting scenarios.

My Hi Power has the first two rounds in the mag loaded with Glaser safety slugs which have minimal wall penetration but will put an intruder down.
The remainder in the mag are flat point FMJ rounds.

[zoo]

All I can say is if you get hurt due to over penetration you've got no one else to blame but yourself for not having gotten the hell out of the way!

Whut?

[Nanuk]

Not birdshot, buckshot. #4 Buck is a good compromise.

No warning shots.

Over penetration is only a problem if you miss.

[Nanuk]

Never underestimate low tech.

In an apartment it's pretty hard to beat a good sharp hatchet or bolo and a knife.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQKrmDLvijo
__________________

[rodfac]

Nanuk....great clip and one of my favorite...Knife to a gun fight...uh huh...Rod

[gwpercle]

For inside the house I tend to favor #4 Buck . Not too small , not to large , just right .

Unless you train a LOT with a Shockwave ... the lack of a butt stock makes hitting much harder . I watched a policeman miss an attacking dog 3 times at point blank range with one... I would not believe it but I saw it happen...three shots all within 6 to 12 Feet , all clean misses and the dog ran off...Animal control had to be called in .
I talked to the officer and he admitted if the shotgun would have had a stock he would not have missed all 3 times...the shotgun is hard to shoot like that .
Gary

[briandg]

HD Guy, the next time you are at a range, do a test. take a sheet of drywall, then another, and a 1/2 inch piece of plywood. Space those things about 2 inches apart by using 2x2s and screw. Then put a piece of 2/6 or something else about ten feet behind it.

Aim at that 2x6 through your wall simulation, fire away. See what happens when you put two rounds of a shotgun through that wall. Report back.

Honestly, I believe that the best, safest way to protect the guys in the other room is to put duct tape over all of the studs so you can know where they are. Then, if called upon to shoot, make sure that your round is aimed at that strip of tape. A 2x4 or 2x6 will at least slow a lower powered round down enough that you might kill your neighbor.

IMO, if you move into an apartment without concrete firewalls you will be making a mistake. Some wooden frame apartments have barriers to prevent break throughs, but a wall in some of the older buildings can be breached in less than a minute.

I worked at a hotel for a while and I have done so.

[Bart B.]

While some degree of marksmanship is required with handguns, the "capacity" rule may apply if effective results are the objective.

For 1 bad home invader..... use a life size silhouette target:

6-shot revolvers; target at 6 feet, 6 shots inside 6 inches ES in 6 seconds.
10-shot semiautos; target at 10 feet, 10 shots inside 10 inches ES in 10 seconds.

For 2 bad home invaders..... 2 targets 2 to 3 feet apart:

Same capacities, ranges, extreme spreads and times; alternating shots on both targets.

Shoot the course twice to practice timely reloading to perfection.

[bamaranger]

I'm not buying the comment that a bullpup shotgun will outperform a conventional shotgun and that you need to spend $500+ bucks or more additional to get it to be a bullpups near equal.

If the bullpup were such a superior step in performance, one would see them in 3Gun and other tactical shotgun competitions, and that is not the case. They would also be common in the military and LE/SWAT operations, and again that is not so. Major training schools such as Thunder Ranch and Gunsite would be endorsing them as well. What is common are proven pump and semi designs, with long histories of service with assorted organizations.

There are a large number of entirely serviceable SD pump shotguns available for $400 and less. A slight jump in price will yield a semi. At such a price, one could purchase two (maybe more) , add a sling, light and a shell caddy if desired, and have one at every door in the house, with training ammo to boot!

Bullpups are indeed shorter, a plus in confined quarters. But the muzzle of a bullpup a foot closer to ones face makes them more unpleasant to shoot due to blast and concussion. The old fashioned 18-20" coach gun is shorter than a similarly barreled pump or semi and can serve in the SD role, especially if backed by a handgun. Bullpups can offer higher capacity, but I'd suggest that 5+1 and 7+1 pumps and some spare on board ammo and skill are sufficient for home defense.

Performance with a shotgun (as with any firearm) is a function of training, practice and experience. The latest whiz bang shotgun with all its gadgets will not automatically yield high performance and superior results. Old school does not automatically equate with obsolete.

[lordvader]

IMO, a shotgun. Remember you don't want one of your, rifle or handgun, rounds going through a sheet rock wall and striking your neighbors kids. 870 Remington 20 gauge youth model would be a good start, as they are compact. And reasonably priced. You can load them with bird shot, buckshot, and slugs. Makes for a very good HD weapon. For apt use I would go with a load of #2 if you can get it, or #4 bird shot. Don't let the shot size fool you. It will kill.

[Jasonzee]

12ga 000 that wont go thru wall into the next appartment.
Nothing put fear into a burglar then racking a 12ga.!

[JohnKSa]

12ga 000 that wont go thru wall into the next appartment.

Even birdshot can go through a typical interior sheetrock wall. I've seen it go through a closet door, the back wall of the closet, and then through the sheetrock on an exterior wall, only stopping when it hit the brick of the exterior wall. Someone did that to my parents' rental house immediately before moving out.

12ga 000 will definitely go through typical interior walls.

https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box...e-box-o-truth/

In the test, 12ga 000 buck went through 7 layers of sheetrock and stopped on the eighth. That would be equivalent to penetrating 3 interior walls and stopping halfway through the fourth.

#1 and #4 buck both penetrated the equivalent of 3 interior walls.

In another test, they found that 12ga 000 buck would penetrate 4 interior walls.

https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box...uns-and-walls/