Bolt action "stiff"

ninosdemente · April 23, 2019, 12:32 AM

When I purchased the Savage 12FV, I had it put away until recently as now it is being ready when I get a change to go to range soon. I did notice this when I first got it but did not pay much attention to it until about 2 weeks ago. I mounted scope rail, scope and even replaced bolt handle, but when closing and opening action, it is not smooth. I have another 12FV and I don't have the same stiffness, it is smoother.

Any ideas what I can do or just wait until it actually fires and see how stiff it still is? This is my 4th bolt rifle so I don't know what to make of this as haven't encountered this on other bolt rifles. Thanks.

On a side note, the stiffness was there before I changed the bolt handle.

HiBC · April 23, 2019, 02:55 AM

Its not unusual for scope screws to be a touch too long.They can protrude from the receiver and contact the bolt.

Its also not unusual for a tube of Loctite to burp way too much Loctite out of the tube into the screw hole,if you are doing it that way. The run-amuck Loc-Tite can cause problems.
I don't have a Savage,and never replaced a bolt handle on one,but its something you changed.If the problem came with the change,its a good clue about where to look.

You might check those

jpx2rk · April 23, 2019, 06:15 AM

Have you removed/cleaned all the excess lube used when the firearm was made. Can be lots of lube/grit combo inside the chamber area. Do a good cleaning of the bolt and chamber area, put a light lube on the bolt and see if works any better. Sometimes it takes a few trips to the range for the bolt to seat or mate with the chamber and will become smoother/easier to operate.

Mobuck · April 23, 2019, 07:11 AM

If the bolt closes harder AFTER you mounted the scope bases, you probably have a screw impinging on the bolt somewhere.
Savages(at least the dozen or so I have used) are notoriously "stiff" on the bolt lift due to the rough surfaces of the cocking cams. Grease the H out of that area and work the bolt 100 times while dry firing. That MAY help.
Don't pay any attention to all that chatter about not lubng hunting rifles. If you're not hunting with it in Siberia TODAY, lube it.

ninosdemente · April 23, 2019, 09:07 AM

Thanks for the reply guys. Actually the stiffness was there when I first got it, even before mounting anything on it or even replacing the bolt handle.

I did not clean the the area.... will try that. Good product or acceptable cleaning solution to clean the area? Thanks guys.

RC20 · April 23, 2019, 11:10 AM

I have 3 Savages. The oldest one (2013 or so) is by far the smoothest.

The other two are not as smooth, don't close as well without a forward hold on the bolt handle.

I don't know if the older ones were just a bit better made, two out of the 3 are newer ones and not as good as the older one but thats too small a sampling to have a solid answer.

Clearly they do vary, even between the two newer ones one is a bit better closing than the other.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · April 23, 2019, 11:19 AM

Just guessing as I don't own a Savage bolt.
Maybe a drop or two of Rem-oil on/in the bolt rails might help loosen.

ninosdemente · April 23, 2019, 02:05 PM

Thanks for the help. Yeah unfortunately I only have 3 savages as well. The other is model 111 and that is smooth as well. Oh well, just have to deal with it. Will try the Rem Oil see what happens. Thanks again guys.

Doyle · April 23, 2019, 04:29 PM

If you can isolate the problem to the locking lugs, you can always lap them.

Mobuck · April 23, 2019, 07:55 PM

"Good product or acceptable cleaning solution to clean the area? Thanks guys."
Remove the stock and scope and hose the rest generously with BrakeKleen followed by blowing the residue and whatever away with compressed air making sure you get plenty of solvent and air into the locking lug recesses to remove any debris that might be hiding in there.
Apply thin oil like RemLube to the trigger assembly and a heavier lube like CLP to the bolt. I usually apply wheel bearing grease to the cocking cams and bolt lugs before dry firing and cycling the bolt several times. Breaking in a new action isn't the time to be concerned about thick lube clotting things up.

precision_shooter · April 23, 2019, 08:24 PM

Did it have screws/caps in the scope base mounting holes before you mounted your base?
I’ve ran into similar issues on previous savage rifle but usually moving screws around (I this may only apply to older models?) by swapping front to back helped. I seem to recall that either the front or rear screws were just a tad shorter so if you got the screws in the wrong place they would protrude just far enough for the bolts to drag on them.

ninosdemente · April 24, 2019, 12:04 AM

I ordered a chassis for this rifle. Just got a notification that it has been shipped. Not getting too excited for this weekend as it is coming from WA and it was sent via USPS. So much for getting it this week, lol. Not using the old stock anymore after I receive the new chassis. Why apply Rem oil to trigger? Have not done so before.

------

No mounting screws, open holes. I read the mounting scope instructions and said small screws in front and longer screws in rear.

DnPRK · April 24, 2019, 12:51 AM

Make sure the front action screw isn't rubbing against the lower bolt lug. I had a Savage which needed to have the front action screw shortened by 1 thread to keep it from rubbing against the bolt when the bolt was almost closed.

precision_shooter · April 24, 2019, 05:59 AM

What DnPRK said. Even if the scope mount mfg provided screws, one size does not always fit all. I know you said it was stiff before mounting scope, so I would strip it all back to bare rifle and note if the stiffness decreases. If so, give it a thorough cleaning,
if it has a detachable magazine, remove it and cycle. Same result?
If internal mag, check that the spring isn’t too hard pressing the follower I to the bottom of the bolt and causing that drag you feel. Load and Cycle a dummy round to see if you get same result.
Do all of the above before remounting your scope.
After you have your bases secured, remove the bolt and look into it with a light to see if the screws protrude through the bottom of the top of the action.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

math teacher · April 25, 2019, 12:04 AM

When I got my left handed Savage the bolt ran stiff and gritty. I removed all lube, cycled and dry fired it about 400 times, then lightly lubed it. It has run nice and smooth every since.

ninosdemente · April 30, 2019, 09:52 PM

So I cleaned, lubed a couple of times and still didn't feel a little better. Grabbed a small flashlight and noticed scuff lines on the receiver, left hand side. So I checked the bolt action and took the following photos. Keep in mind I had to flip upside.

http://www.mentegraphics.com/pictures/101.jpg
http://www.mentegraphics.com/pictures/102.jpg
http://www.mentegraphics.com/pictures/103.jpg
http://www.mentegraphics.com/pictures/104.jpg
http://www.mentegraphics.com/pictures/105.jpg

I checked the other 2 Savages and they too have the marks. This one is the worst one out of all of them. No screws protrude by checking with light and with finger.

BeeShooter · April 30, 2019, 10:55 PM

You have a piece of metal most likely from the chambering process that is stuck in the very front of the receiver that is grinding against the bolt's lug. It's located in the very front. Get a wire and bend a small 'L' on the end and try to get it out. From the picture - It very well could be a burr of metal in the lug's race. If it is you'll need to some how extricate it maybe with a small, long screw driver. This isn't unusual with savage rifles. It's important to note that the savage is a floating bolt head and it is imperative that the head locks up correctly on the barrel's flush cut face and case head( within certain tolerances). A burr in the lug's race may not prohibit it from locking correctly. Another opinion is to remove the barrel( you'll need simple tools, barrel vice, gauges) or get a smith to do it. All this said you could also just shoot it and see what happens.

ninosdemente · April 30, 2019, 11:57 PM

Thanks for the help BeeShooter. Will try that method.

------

This will sound very unusual that almost don't want to mention but it felt that the bolt was less stiff when the screws that hold the aftermarket stock and barrel/receiver together were loosen just enough. I know this sounds crazy but I even tried the original stock and the same. When I tighten the screws to manufacturer specification on aftermarket and original, the bolt felt stiff as before. Am I going crazy or just seems I'm trying to hard to find the problem?

ninosdemente · May 1, 2019, 12:26 AM

precision_shooter, I stripped down to bare rifle and was able to clean better. When testing the bolt, it was better up until I tightened the stock to the rifle.

DnPRK · May 1, 2019, 02:33 AM

Does the bolt close easily when the action is out of the stock? If so, the stock is causing the issue.

precision_shooter · May 1, 2019, 07:22 AM

Ah ha, sounds like an action screw is protruding just enough to cause issues when properly torqued. Use a small washer/spacer on the action screws, torque as normal. If the stiffness goes away, you know it’s an action screw that is too long then just trim/grind the screws down one thread at a time or if you don’t mind the washer/spacer just keep it.

ninosdemente · May 1, 2019, 08:45 AM

DnPRK, the closing I felt was the same on stock and off on both the original and aftermarket. The difference was when sliding the bold forward and backward that I felt the difference.

------

precision_shooter, I did check the screw that is nearest to the barrel and yes did see that just enough screw protrudes out. I couldn't tell on the other screw near the trigger, but seems at it does as the bolt was better when that screw was loosen a bit too. Will try the washer method and hopefully that will fix the problem. If it works, plan on keeping the washer on there.

tangolima · May 1, 2019, 10:23 AM

The action screw shouldn't be too long by design. Thing must have happened to make it too long. Over torquing is one possibility, especially so if no metal insert / pillar in the stock material to keep it from compressing.

I prefer grinding the screw shorter to adding a washer. It is just an additional critical part to lose. Besides, some action screw heads have slight countersink shape. Putting a flat washer under it may not work well. Trigger guards usually have counter bore to accommodate the action screw head. It would be additional pain to find a washer that fits inside that counter bore diameter. Fitting is usually required.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

ninosdemente · May 1, 2019, 11:51 AM

tangolima, was trying to avoid grinding. The manufacturer said to torque at 60in lbs. Used a rachet and tighten it just enough (snug).

tangolima · May 1, 2019, 12:06 PM

I understand. I went through the same with my Remington 700 BDL in 30-06. But after dealing with losing the fitted washer a few times, I changed mind. The wood compression problem was solved once for all by pillar bedding.

60 in-lb is pretty high. Your rifle must have metal insert / pillar installed in the stock. High torque as it may be for rifle action screws, 60 in-lb is only 5 ft-lb, which is nothing in auto repair talk. It can easily be carried away if the ratchet is for the latter trade. A torque driver is probably more appropriate.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

April 23, 2019, 12:32 AM	#1
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	Bolt action "stiff" When I purchased the Savage 12FV, I had it put away until recently as now it is being ready when I get a change to go to range soon. I did notice this when I first got it but did not pay much attention to it until about 2 weeks ago. I mounted scope rail, scope and even replaced bolt handle, but when closing and opening action, it is not smooth. I have another 12FV and I don't have the same stiffness, it is smoother. Any ideas what I can do or just wait until it actually fires and see how stiff it still is? This is my 4th bolt rifle so I don't know what to make of this as haven't encountered this on other bolt rifles. Thanks. On a side note, the stiffness was there before I changed the bolt handle.

April 23, 2019, 11:10 AM	#6
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I have 3 Savages. The oldest one (2013 or so) is by far the smoothest. The other two are not as smooth, don't close as well without a forward hold on the bolt handle. I don't know if the older ones were just a bit better made, two out of the 3 are newer ones and not as good as the older one but thats too small a sampling to have a solid answer. Clearly they do vary, even between the two newer ones one is a bit better closing than the other. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

April 23, 2019, 08:24 PM	#11
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	Did it have screws/caps in the scope base mounting holes before you mounted your base? I’ve ran into similar issues on previous savage rifle but usually moving screws around (I this may only apply to older models?) by swapping front to back helped. I seem to recall that either the front or rear screws were just a tad shorter so if you got the screws in the wrong place they would protrude just far enough for the bolts to drag on them. __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

April 24, 2019, 05:59 AM	#14
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	What DnPRK said. Even if the scope mount mfg provided screws, one size does not always fit all. I know you said it was stiff before mounting scope, so I would strip it all back to bare rifle and note if the stiffness decreases. If so, give it a thorough cleaning, if it has a detachable magazine, remove it and cycle. Same result? If internal mag, check that the spring isn’t too hard pressing the follower I to the bottom of the bolt and causing that drag you feel. Load and Cycle a dummy round to see if you get same result. Do all of the above before remounting your scope. After you have your bases secured, remove the bolt and look into it with a light to see if the screws protrude through the bottom of the top of the action. Good luck and let us know what you find. __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

May 1, 2019, 07:22 AM	#21
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	Ah ha, sounds like an action screw is protruding just enough to cause issues when properly torqued. Use a small washer/spacer on the action screws, torque as normal. If the stiffness goes away, you know it’s an action screw that is too long then just trim/grind the screws down one thread at a time or if you don’t mind the washer/spacer just keep it. __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

April 23, 2019, 02:55 AM	#2
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	Its not unusual for scope screws to be a touch too long.They can protrude from the receiver and contact the bolt. Its also not unusual for a tube of Loctite to burp way too much Loctite out of the tube into the screw hole,if you are doing it that way. The run-amuck Loc-Tite can cause problems. I don't have a Savage,and never replaced a bolt handle on one,but its something you changed.If the problem came with the change,its a good clue about where to look. You might check those

April 23, 2019, 06:15 AM	#3
jpx2rk Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2015 Posts: 387	Have you removed/cleaned all the excess lube used when the firearm was made. Can be lots of lube/grit combo inside the chamber area. Do a good cleaning of the bolt and chamber area, put a light lube on the bolt and see if works any better. Sometimes it takes a few trips to the range for the bolt to seat or mate with the chamber and will become smoother/easier to operate.

April 23, 2019, 07:11 AM	#4
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	If the bolt closes harder AFTER you mounted the scope bases, you probably have a screw impinging on the bolt somewhere. Savages(at least the dozen or so I have used) are notoriously "stiff" on the bolt lift due to the rough surfaces of the cocking cams. Grease the H out of that area and work the bolt 100 times while dry firing. That MAY help. Don't pay any attention to all that chatter about not lubng hunting rifles. If you're not hunting with it in Siberia TODAY, lube it.

April 23, 2019, 09:07 AM	#5
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	Thanks for the reply guys. Actually the stiffness was there when I first got it, even before mounting anything on it or even replacing the bolt handle. I did not clean the the area.... will try that. Good product or acceptable cleaning solution to clean the area? Thanks guys.

April 23, 2019, 11:19 AM	#7
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Just guessing as I don't own a Savage bolt. Maybe a drop or two of Rem-oil on/in the bolt rails might help loosen.

April 23, 2019, 02:05 PM	#8
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	Thanks for the help. Yeah unfortunately I only have 3 savages as well. The other is model 111 and that is smooth as well. Oh well, just have to deal with it. Will try the Rem Oil see what happens. Thanks again guys.

April 23, 2019, 04:29 PM	#9
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	If you can isolate the problem to the locking lugs, you can always lap them.

April 23, 2019, 07:55 PM	#10
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"Good product or acceptable cleaning solution to clean the area? Thanks guys." Remove the stock and scope and hose the rest generously with BrakeKleen followed by blowing the residue and whatever away with compressed air making sure you get plenty of solvent and air into the locking lug recesses to remove any debris that might be hiding in there. Apply thin oil like RemLube to the trigger assembly and a heavier lube like CLP to the bolt. I usually apply wheel bearing grease to the cocking cams and bolt lugs before dry firing and cycling the bolt several times. Breaking in a new action isn't the time to be concerned about thick lube clotting things up.

April 24, 2019, 12:04 AM	#12
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	I ordered a chassis for this rifle. Just got a notification that it has been shipped. Not getting too excited for this weekend as it is coming from WA and it was sent via USPS. So much for getting it this week, lol. Not using the old stock anymore after I receive the new chassis. Why apply Rem oil to trigger? Have not done so before. ------ No mounting screws, open holes. I read the mounting scope instructions and said small screws in front and longer screws in rear.

April 24, 2019, 12:51 AM	#13
DnPRK Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2001 Location: LC, Ca Posts: 1,917	Make sure the front action screw isn't rubbing against the lower bolt lug. I had a Savage which needed to have the front action screw shortened by 1 thread to keep it from rubbing against the bolt when the bolt was almost closed.

April 25, 2019, 12:04 AM	#15
math teacher Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2012 Location: Southwest WA Coast Posts: 558	When I got my left handed Savage the bolt ran stiff and gritty. I removed all lube, cycled and dry fired it about 400 times, then lightly lubed it. It has run nice and smooth every since.

April 30, 2019, 09:52 PM	#16
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	So I cleaned, lubed a couple of times and still didn't feel a little better. Grabbed a small flashlight and noticed scuff lines on the receiver, left hand side. So I checked the bolt action and took the following photos. Keep in mind I had to flip upside. http://www.mentegraphics.com/pictures/101.jpg http://www.mentegraphics.com/pictures/102.jpg http://www.mentegraphics.com/pictures/103.jpg http://www.mentegraphics.com/pictures/104.jpg http://www.mentegraphics.com/pictures/105.jpg I checked the other 2 Savages and they too have the marks. This one is the worst one out of all of them. No screws protrude by checking with light and with finger.

April 30, 2019, 10:55 PM	#17
BeeShooter Member Join Date: August 24, 2016 Posts: 85	You have a piece of metal most likely from the chambering process that is stuck in the very front of the receiver that is grinding against the bolt's lug. It's located in the very front. Get a wire and bend a small 'L' on the end and try to get it out. From the picture - It very well could be a burr of metal in the lug's race. If it is you'll need to some how extricate it maybe with a small, long screw driver. This isn't unusual with savage rifles. It's important to note that the savage is a floating bolt head and it is imperative that the head locks up correctly on the barrel's flush cut face and case head( within certain tolerances). A burr in the lug's race may not prohibit it from locking correctly. Another opinion is to remove the barrel( you'll need simple tools, barrel vice, gauges) or get a smith to do it. All this said you could also just shoot it and see what happens.

April 30, 2019, 11:57 PM	#18
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	Thanks for the help BeeShooter. Will try that method. ------ This will sound very unusual that almost don't want to mention but it felt that the bolt was less stiff when the screws that hold the aftermarket stock and barrel/receiver together were loosen just enough. I know this sounds crazy but I even tried the original stock and the same. When I tighten the screws to manufacturer specification on aftermarket and original, the bolt felt stiff as before. Am I going crazy or just seems I'm trying to hard to find the problem?

May 1, 2019, 12:26 AM	#19
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	precision_shooter, I stripped down to bare rifle and was able to clean better. When testing the bolt, it was better up until I tightened the stock to the rifle.

May 1, 2019, 02:33 AM	#20
DnPRK Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2001 Location: LC, Ca Posts: 1,917	Does the bolt close easily when the action is out of the stock? If so, the stock is causing the issue.

May 1, 2019, 08:45 AM	#22
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	DnPRK, the closing I felt was the same on stock and off on both the original and aftermarket. The difference was when sliding the bold forward and backward that I felt the difference. ------ precision_shooter, I did check the screw that is nearest to the barrel and yes did see that just enough screw protrudes out. I couldn't tell on the other screw near the trigger, but seems at it does as the bolt was better when that screw was loosen a bit too. Will try the washer method and hopefully that will fix the problem. If it works, plan on keeping the washer on there.

May 1, 2019, 10:23 AM	#23
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,816	The action screw shouldn't be too long by design. Thing must have happened to make it too long. Over torquing is one possibility, especially so if no metal insert / pillar in the stock material to keep it from compressing. I prefer grinding the screw shorter to adding a washer. It is just an additional critical part to lose. Besides, some action screw heads have slight countersink shape. Putting a flat washer under it may not work well. Trigger guards usually have counter bore to accommodate the action screw head. It would be additional pain to find a washer that fits inside that counter bore diameter. Fitting is usually required. -TL Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

May 1, 2019, 11:51 AM	#24
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	tangolima, was trying to avoid grinding. The manufacturer said to torque at 60in lbs. Used a rachet and tighten it just enough (snug).

May 1, 2019, 12:06 PM	#25
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,816	I understand. I went through the same with my Remington 700 BDL in 30-06. But after dealing with losing the fitted washer a few times, I changed mind. The wood compression problem was solved once for all by pillar bedding. 60 in-lb is pretty high. Your rifle must have metal insert / pillar installed in the stock. High torque as it may be for rifle action screws, 60 in-lb is only 5 ft-lb, which is nothing in auto repair talk. It can easily be carried away if the ratchet is for the latter trade. A torque driver is probably more appropriate. -TL Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk