Any Tips on How to Seek Center Axis Relock Instruction Despite Non-ubiquity of it?

Gunnut17 · January 20, 2017, 03:19 AM

I've posted here in my five years active about the potential for CAR to be a better, or at least, a tool in one's box of muscle memories and skills, comparable to Weaver grip, Isoloces Stance while using pistols, and generally universal marksmanship and self-defense pertinent disciplines with rifles, shotguns and, chiefly, given CAR's inherent use for making handguns easier to retain and use safely in close quarters and tight spaces that self defense, as a concept, can be made harder with inherently if one isn't well off to handle the recoil or stress of fight-or-flight instincts in such situations well enough to not, at best, limp wrist in a bad mistake on their part with a gun otherwise reliably recoil-driven and semi-auto, or, at worst, lose their life or limb, so to speak, in failing to defend themselves sufficiently from harm coming to them at the worst of a SD situation.

Given CAR is, at best, rare to find formal instructors on since its creator passed away, and, worse, hard to find true-to-the-original training that its creator gave its first students from his instruction firsthand for them, I worry my want to have CAR, among more basic firearm disciplines, in my metaphorical toolbox one day, that, much like an endangered languages, CAR may not survive until my 21st birthday in three years for me to be taught by anyone not immortalized in their teachings of it on the Internet or on paper.

Anyone know enough about this sort of thing to point me in the right direction to collect information for going down the road of becoming, well and truly, a member of the gun enthusiast/owners' community online, in real life, and in my knowledge base and passion for all things firearm and self defense oriented at this stage in life, lest CAR never be ubiquitous enough that I might one day be able to learn it and pass it down much like a dying language?

Cheers.

DaleA · January 20, 2017, 09:31 AM

Quote:

my metaphorical toolbox

You had me up to 'metaphorical'.

There are *LOTS* of ways to point the gun and pull the trigger and I think we over think these things. Heck even saying 'pull' the trigger can and has triggered (pun intended) a fire storm of not very nice comments.

Go learn whatever discipline floats your boat grasshopper, it sure isn't up to me to tell anyone what's best for them, but IMhO we really do over think these things. Your mileage may vary.

Good luck anyway.

Gunnut17 · January 20, 2017, 11:08 AM

Thanks for the bid of good luck, Dale.

ShootistPRS · January 20, 2017, 01:43 PM

Self defense and group or team defense training is very expensive. Start putting money into a savings account now which you won't use for anything but training. When you come of age you can take a three day course as your first stage and later, after practicing what you learned you can take a one or two week course that will teach you how to communicate while operating with a group in an active fire situation.

What is necessary to defend yourself with a gun? The first and most important is the ability to kill someone with your gun. Another is training that will become automatic actions in response to a self defense situation.

Living your daily life with your head on a swivel, like a radar, looking for things that might not be normal so you can be ready if a situation arises is hard to do at first but it can become habitual if you work at it long enough. Things like sitting in a restaurant where you can see the entrance and exit with your back to a wall or walking at a distance to any opening between buildings while walking the dog. You have to get in the habit of scanning everything in your field of vision. Looking people who are passing by and smiling while you greet them with a "hi" or "howdy". Things that put you in control of your own space. When someone looks out of place you move away from them to give yourself time if they are going to attack.

You also need to practice getting your gun from a holster to an on target position while taking cover or getting to a safe(r) position. There is much to learn and it all has to become automatic because once that big dose of adrenaline goes into your bloodstream it's too late to think.

Slopemeno · January 20, 2017, 02:13 PM

I would read up on pistol training in general and look at some of the trends that have come- and perhaps more importantly- gone over the years.

Not saying that CAR should have survived or died, but there are many firearms trainers who look for a hook, or something different to get paying customers through the door. Let's face it- the basics are hard work and long hours.

It might not hurt to visit your local USPSA/IDPA league and get some exposure to how the really good shooters are shooting. I was a die-hard weaver shooter until I started to realize that moving to isosceles improved my performance- and other shooters report the same thing.

mcintosh · January 20, 2017, 02:27 PM

It is awesome to see a young shooting enthusiast.

My best advice is to focus on the fundamentals of shooting accurately. As long as you have a solid grasp of the fundamentals and can perform on demand, rock on. (If you can't keep 10 rounds in an 8" circle at 25yd, go back and work on the basics. Do the Dot Torture drill. Practice with purpose and set goals. Hold yourself to standards.)
The more solid your grasp of the boring basics of handgun accuracy, the more computing power you will have available for other things like worrying about how far out you hold the gun.

(I wish someone had told me that when I was 18. I would have saved tons of money on ammo that was instead wasted on shooting fast and patting myself on the back for keeping everything on the paper at 5yd.)

Your thread is the first that I have heard of the system, but a quick bit of google-fu shows me that there may be a reason that I havent heard of it: nobody of note uses it. I am always wary of "systems" that claim to be the best at anything.

Look at it this way: If the system has merit, it won't "die out", it will become the standard. That is one of the great things about the firearms training industry, the trash gets sorted out pretty quickly. The good instructors are those who are always learning from each other, re-evaluating new data, always evolving.

One thing to think about: Your stance is almost entirely dependent on the situation for someone in a defensive role.
You are not going to choose the fight, you are not the aggressor. You may start the fight from your back, you may be restraining someone with your off hand, you may be holding a flashlight, or you may decide to take three shots at a guy from 150yards because you see that he has a cop pinned down. https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/tex...h-a-long-shot/

Get your sights, control your trigger, get your hits. Everything else is gravy.

Don P · January 20, 2017, 02:29 PM

I got to ask,what the hell is CAR???? Seems like things are being over thunk

Snyper · January 20, 2017, 03:06 PM

Quote:

CAR may not survive until my 21st birthday

It will still be on the internet.
http://www.thefullwiki.org/Center_Axis_Relock

That's about the only place it's truly useful, and even then only as something to pass the time.

It's also good in video games:

Quote:

The C.A.R. System is the gun fighting system used by Sam Fisher in the upcoming video game Splinter Cell: Conviction, due out on April 13th, 2010.

ShootistPRS · January 20, 2017, 03:48 PM

Well, that covers it then. Despite the great odds of a self inflicted gunshot wound and the exposure of vital organs to enemy fire, it is a video game tactic so it must be the best thing since rocket launchers replaced the sling.

January 20, 2017, 03:19 AM	#1
Gunnut17 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2012 Location: Kitsap County, WA, USA Posts: 445	Any Tips on How to Seek Center Axis Relock Instruction Despite Non-ubiquity of it? I've posted here in my five years active about the potential for CAR to be a better, or at least, a tool in one's box of muscle memories and skills, comparable to Weaver grip, Isoloces Stance while using pistols, and generally universal marksmanship and self-defense pertinent disciplines with rifles, shotguns and, chiefly, given CAR's inherent use for making handguns easier to retain and use safely in close quarters and tight spaces that self defense, as a concept, can be made harder with inherently if one isn't well off to handle the recoil or stress of fight-or-flight instincts in such situations well enough to not, at best, limp wrist in a bad mistake on their part with a gun otherwise reliably recoil-driven and semi-auto, or, at worst, lose their life or limb, so to speak, in failing to defend themselves sufficiently from harm coming to them at the worst of a SD situation. Given CAR is, at best, rare to find formal instructors on since its creator passed away, and, worse, hard to find true-to-the-original training that its creator gave its first students from his instruction firsthand for them, I worry my want to have CAR, among more basic firearm disciplines, in my metaphorical toolbox one day, that, much like an endangered languages, CAR may not survive until my 21st birthday in three years for me to be taught by anyone not immortalized in their teachings of it on the Internet or on paper. Anyone know enough about this sort of thing to point me in the right direction to collect information for going down the road of becoming, well and truly, a member of the gun enthusiast/owners' community online, in real life, and in my knowledge base and passion for all things firearm and self defense oriented at this stage in life, lest CAR never be ubiquitous enough that I might one day be able to learn it and pass it down much like a dying language? Cheers.

January 20, 2017, 02:29 PM	#7
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	I got to ask,what the hell is CAR???? Seems like things are being over thunk __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

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January 20, 2017, 11:08 AM	#3
Gunnut17 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2012 Location: Kitsap County, WA, USA Posts: 445	Thanks for the bid of good luck, Dale.

January 20, 2017, 01:43 PM	#4
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	Self defense and group or team defense training is very expensive. Start putting money into a savings account now which you won't use for anything but training. When you come of age you can take a three day course as your first stage and later, after practicing what you learned you can take a one or two week course that will teach you how to communicate while operating with a group in an active fire situation. What is necessary to defend yourself with a gun? The first and most important is the ability to kill someone with your gun. Another is training that will become automatic actions in response to a self defense situation. Living your daily life with your head on a swivel, like a radar, looking for things that might not be normal so you can be ready if a situation arises is hard to do at first but it can become habitual if you work at it long enough. Things like sitting in a restaurant where you can see the entrance and exit with your back to a wall or walking at a distance to any opening between buildings while walking the dog. You have to get in the habit of scanning everything in your field of vision. Looking people who are passing by and smiling while you greet them with a "hi" or "howdy". Things that put you in control of your own space. When someone looks out of place you move away from them to give yourself time if they are going to attack. You also need to practice getting your gun from a holster to an on target position while taking cover or getting to a safe(r) position. There is much to learn and it all has to become automatic because once that big dose of adrenaline goes into your bloodstream it's too late to think.

January 20, 2017, 02:13 PM	#5
Slopemeno Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2007 Posts: 2,663	I would read up on pistol training in general and look at some of the trends that have come- and perhaps more importantly- gone over the years. Not saying that CAR should have survived or died, but there are many firearms trainers who look for a hook, or something different to get paying customers through the door. Let's face it- the basics are hard work and long hours. It might not hurt to visit your local USPSA/IDPA league and get some exposure to how the really good shooters are shooting. I was a die-hard weaver shooter until I started to realize that moving to isosceles improved my performance- and other shooters report the same thing.

January 20, 2017, 02:27 PM	#6
mcintosh Junior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 12	It is awesome to see a young shooting enthusiast. My best advice is to focus on the fundamentals of shooting accurately. As long as you have a solid grasp of the fundamentals and can perform on demand, rock on. (If you can't keep 10 rounds in an 8" circle at 25yd, go back and work on the basics. Do the Dot Torture drill. Practice with purpose and set goals. Hold yourself to standards.) The more solid your grasp of the boring basics of handgun accuracy, the more computing power you will have available for other things like worrying about how far out you hold the gun. (I wish someone had told me that when I was 18. I would have saved tons of money on ammo that was instead wasted on shooting fast and patting myself on the back for keeping everything on the paper at 5yd.) Your thread is the first that I have heard of the system, but a quick bit of google-fu shows me that there may be a reason that I havent heard of it: nobody of note uses it. I am always wary of "systems" that claim to be the best at anything. Look at it this way: If the system has merit, it won't "die out", it will become the standard. That is one of the great things about the firearms training industry, the trash gets sorted out pretty quickly. The good instructors are those who are always learning from each other, re-evaluating new data, always evolving. One thing to think about: Your stance is almost entirely dependent on the situation for someone in a defensive role. You are not going to choose the fight, you are not the aggressor. You may start the fight from your back, you may be restraining someone with your off hand, you may be holding a flashlight, or you may decide to take three shots at a guy from 150yards because you see that he has a cop pinned down. https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/tex...h-a-long-shot/ Get your sights, control your trigger, get your hits. Everything else is gravy.

January 20, 2017, 03:48 PM	#9
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	Well, that covers it then. Despite the great odds of a self inflicted gunshot wound and the exposure of vital organs to enemy fire, it is a video game tactic so it must be the best thing since rocket launchers replaced the sling.