Hunting white tailed deer with a .45acp

[P71pilot]

Hello all. It is deer season here in the east as a lot of you probably know. Here in the state of Ohio we are not allowed to use high powered rifles, only muzzloaders, Shotguns, or handguns (on top of bows or crossbows). I have a .50 caliber muzzleloader and a Springfield Loaded model 1911 .45acp. I have hunted with the Thompson center a handful of times but I do not like to lug the thing around/up tree stands and I do not like only having one shot. I have gotten pretty good with 1911, I've put about 1000rds through it and can easily make a lung shot at 30-35yds or a heart shot at 20-25. I have made the decision to use this weapon as a deer tool. I know that penetration and shot placement are the biggest factors in harvesting an animal. With my old 12gauge I use to have i focused only on heart shots and had very good luck. So here is my dilemma, using a slow, heavy handgun round- would you guys use a heavy hard cast/fmj flat point and shoot for the shoulder bone/frontal lung, or would you use a 200-230gr hollowpoint and aim for the heart/lungs? I figure a good Bonded HP going about 900-1000fps would shred his heart up pretty good, but do you think he would be able to run more than 75yds, Making recovery difficult? Woods here are pretty thick and if he doesn't bleed a lot tracking could be hard. Or I could use a heavy hardcast (255gr) and get him in the shoulder, ensuring he can't go far but also penetrating its lung/s so he will run out of breath and pass. I don't need to hear about if you think a .45 is not enough for this use, It has enough penetration for my range 30yds Max, and I know I can hit with it. The question is if you were me, which shot would you take? Using a .45acp handgun with a 5"barrel for deer in my state is legal. The deer here are pretty big for the national average. Most adult does are around 160lbs undressed, I have seen bucks that weigh around 250 or more. I have used a 12 ga few times a few years ago and when hit in the heart an adult doe will run about 15yds before falling dead. I wonder if a good hollow point could do similar damage.

[Ruger480]

Check your regs. A lot of states require the use of expanding bullets only. With that said...always heart/lung shots. Especially if your using a pistol.

[firebrand]

If it were me, I'd go with hollow point. I believe it would do more damage internally to the organs even if you hit close to the lungs / heart. Although a solid ball going through bone would create moving fragments as well. I had a friend in the service who would load his .45 with 2 hollow points followed by a solid ball..etc. for self defense. Maybe load both in the mag in sequence?

[Panfisher]

I packed my kimber a few times with pretty much the same restrictions you are talking. Never got to t try it but was loaded with hornady xtp hp in 230 grain flavor. I had no doubt that if I kept to my restrictions what the result would be if I put one through the heart lungs. Personally I would still carry the muzzle loader just in case a nice one stops at 75 yards.

[jimbob86]

I'd have no confidence in 45ACP from a pistol for deer, having seen .357Mag XTP's (158gr HP @ 1250 f/sec) fail to penetrate to the far side of the chest on a 1 1/2 y.o. Nebraska buck ...... from a range of 3 feet. No blood trail to follow .......

Were I you, I'd take the .50 ML ....

[TimSr]

Use an expanding bullet, and light enough to achieve the velocity it needs to expand, and restrict yourself to rib cage entrances for a lung shot, and very close. Forget counting on multiple hits. Better yet, use your muzzleloader which turns the .45 cal slug into a .454 Casull.

You mentioned Ohios limitations, but you do realize that rifles using straight wall cartridges are legal this year, right?

[steveNChunter]

I'd ten times rather have the muzzleloader than the .45 acp, but if you want to use the pistol, I'd recommend a 185 gr self defense/duty-type round. In a big, slow round like the .45 acp, you need velocity more than you need bullet weight. If it's made to stop humans it should be decent at stopping deer. A Barnes 185 gr TAC-XP would be a good one. Barnes TAC-XPD ammo has that bullet at 1000 fps MV, but you could probably get a little faster with handloads.

The muzzleloader will give you those quick, DRT kills with correct shot placement. The pistol, probably not, and definitely not over 50 yards.

[P71pilot]

Yes yes a .45 300gr slug going 1600fps Would and does prove very effective on a deer sized animal, but wouldn't a 230gr HP going about 900-1000 cause Similar damage if placed in the same spot? I guess the .45auto may or may not penetrate fully. Because of the close proximity of all the trees, furthest distance of shot opportunity is about 50yds. Wouldnt take one that far with the 1911 though. I realize that straight walled rifles are legal now, but I can't afford another gun for while. I wonder how that light solid copper dpx round reacts when hitting hard rounded surfaces like deer ribs? I'm thinking a pdx1 in 230gr +p might be the ticket. For me its all about having both hands free and having 3lbs on my hip, instead of 8 in my arms or slung on my back.

[tahunua001]

I would suggest one extreme or the other for close range pistol application.
either go heavy and lead or fast and hollow point.

my reasoning is that the lead will offer best penetration and good expansion but poor weight retention, the 230gr would offer a lot of energy at the target.

on the other hand a 185gr speer gold dot or hornady XTP would give good expansion throughout and maybe some slight fragmentation(mostly jacket fragments) and the faster speed would likely cause them to open up a bit more.

that's just how my brain works. really you wouldn't be doo bad off with any 45ACP bullet vs any whitetail in north america, the real challenge is getting close enough to put one in the boiler room.

[feets]

The 45 ACP is plenty for 30 yards and less. Be sure you're using a heavy bonded slug. Typical self defense loads may be a bit light and not provide the penetration you need.

Ballistics by the Inch ran the 230 gr CorBon 230 gr JHP through a 5" Para at 1000 fps. Their Federal 230 gr Hydra-Shock ran through the same gun at 897 fps.

People have said through the ages that a 45 Colt driving a 250 gr slug at 900 fps would go clean through most North American game, including deer.

Now that the bullet lost a whopping 8% of it's weight people are freaking out.
It would probably benefit you to use a heavy SWC if you think bone or lack of penetration will be an issue,

Keep it at your 30 yard max and I doubt seriously you will have any problem.

[riverratt]

A 230gr XTP loaded at +p velocity works just fine for deer. I took a hand full of does with this round out of my 1911 just to say i did it. Yes all shots were within 50yrds, most were within 25yrds. And yes all deer ran, usually 50-75 yards and one went about 150 yards. The one that went 150 yards was my fault not the bullets i hit a bit back catching one lung and the liver.

As long as i had a true broadside shot it passed through leaving a decent blood trail. On slight quartering shots i found a nice mushroomed slug just under the hide with little blood to track.

I would suggest, if your tracking skills aren't up to snuff, you use a hardcast simi-wadcutter. Just to make sure you get an exit hole for a better blood trail, but if your decent at tracking you'll be fine. (So long as you don't hit the shoulder)

[Water-Man]

I'd give serious consideration to the 255gr. HC-FN that Buffalo Bore offers.

[JD0x0]

Penetration and placement. Either use a heavy deep penetrating HP or a heavy SWC to ensure deep wounds, and maximum potential for a nice bloody exit hole.

[Hunter Customs]

I'd give serious consideration to the 255gr. HC-FN that Buffalo Bore offers.

I agree with the above quote from Water-Man, this is the load I would choose if I was not a handloader.

I would be going after a through and through shot for a better blood trail.

I shot an 8 point buck with a 45ACP load very similar to the Buffalo Bore load above, however mine was a handload.

The Buck ran in a V pattern to the Northeast and back to the Southeast for a total of about 80 yards, actually went down about 40 yards East of me.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

[reloader28]

I also agree with Water Man.

Pistol hollow points are made for one thing only. Self defense. Which means extreme expansion as fast as possible and no exit. Meaning they will only penatrate a few inches. Test them out for yourself in some milk jugs filled with water and lined up.

Go with a big meplat cast bullet in 130- 155gr if you reload. It'll work just fine and make bleeding holes in and out in any deer.

[madmo44mag]

Riverrats post is pretty spot on; heavy bullet, +P velocities and 75 yards or less with good shot placement. I can see that combination being a good choice.

I hunted deer with a 44mag for many years and had to find the right bullet and load to guarantee a kill every time.
I can’t see any pistol bullet under 180 gr and going less that 1100 fps ever being reliable.
As stated above; pistol bullets are designed to expand quickly so you need mass and velocity to get the penetration needed to guarantee a kill.
Even my best 44 hunting round was only good out too 75 yard and guarantee a kill with proper shot placement.

I hate tracking wounded deer so I like a load that will drop them on the spot.
In a 1911 style pistol you can only push a bullet so fast before you start doing bad things to the gun itself.

[artsmom]

Let's first start with experience and then advance to theory:

Has anyone here ACTUALLY filled a deer tag with a .45 ACP handgun?...

[Jack O'Conner]

If 45 ACP is legal, I guess you can hunt with it. But it's definitely a short range cartridge. I suggest a rapid expansion hollow tip bullet such as Hornady XTP.

TR

[GeauxTide]

Short answer is no. The expanding bullets for the ACP are designed for humans. Long answer is using loads that will shorten the life of the piece with bullets designed for hunting and pushed to 1000fps. Other consideration is, can you put every shot into 8" at the distance you'd shoot offhand?

[reloader28]

"Has anyone here actually filled a deer tag with a 45acp?"


I've heard of a few guys using 45acp.
Just read of a guy on castboolit forum that used a 230gr Fed hydro shock on a deer. 28 paces and DRT.

[P71pilot]

I firmly believe I can make every single shot within an 8" circle up to 40 yds. I have practiced up to 30 therefore that is my personal max. I have done a lot of archery through the years and am very good at gauging range. I have never even bench rested my pistol but the best I have accomplished standing, with two hands is 1.5" 5 shots at 20yds. Sitting down using one of my knees as a brace I can hit a 8x8 post 4out of 5 shots at 75yds. I know this isn't extreme marksmanship but I am confident I can make a fatal shot on a large deer up to about 30yds. I think I will acquire some fmj FP's and some heavy hardcast loaded rounds and see which gives me the best accuracy. I will aim for the heart

[jaytothekizzay]

My hunting buddy dropped a doe dead in her tracks last year with a .40S&W shot from 10 feet with a speer gold dot. Got her in the lung heart area... the deer didnt run 2 feet. Dropped dead right there.

[JD0x0]

.45acp can do it if ranges are kept short, but I'd think about investing in a .45super or .460rowland conversion for a little more insurance for an ethical kill.

The expanding bullets for the ACP are designed for humans.

Most smaller deer have construction fairly similar to humans. Yes, different animal, but as far as bone density and muscle mass, pretty comparable.

Also, for the ACP I'd recommend a solid bullet over an expanding one.

As I said before, penetration and placement are all you essentially need. Yes, it's nice to have the bigger hole of the HP but if it means sub par penetration, go with a solid, with a wide meplat.

[NateKirk]

I'd have no confidence in 45ACP from a pistol for deer, having seen .357Mag XTP's (158gr HP @ 1250 f/sec) fail to penetrate to the far side of the chest on a 1 1/2 y.o. Nebraska buck ...... from a range of 3 feet. No blood trail to follow ......

A friend of my brother's in Kentucky poaches deer all year round with a .22 air rifle. Shoots 'em in the head. Shot placement is everything.

[P71pilot]

I personally won't aim for the head unless an animal is a danger to me. Personal thing. After the brain is destroyed the heart continues to pump for who knows how long?