Newby bullseye pistol

ZeSpectre · January 15, 2009, 01:46 PM

I have a great deal on the table for a Smith & Wesson 22A pistol (5.5" barrel).

Would such a pistol be a decent starting gun if I was interested in taking up Bullseye or should I just save up the scratch (however long that takes) for something else (say from Volqartsen like the Stingray)?

Dustin0 · January 15, 2009, 02:56 PM

How much for it can you email or post pics of it.

DaveBeal · January 15, 2009, 03:21 PM

For the cost of that Volquartsen spacegun, you can get a NIB S&W Model 41 - the best American-made .22LR bullseye pistol. Or for about half that much, a Ruger MkIII from which the Volquartsen is made.

ZeSpectre · January 15, 2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

How much for it can you email or post pics of it.

Maybe I was unclear. I'm being offered a great deal ($195) by a friend and I'm considering buying the gun and was wondering if it would be of high enough quality to use for Bullseye.

The gun itself is "like new in box"

Dustin0 · January 15, 2009, 03:27 PM

OH ok
$195 for that gun is an ok deal I got one just like this for $201 out the door New in Box with Extra mag. I have used mine for Bullseye I feel that the gun shots better than I can shot it.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...10&isFirearm=Y

So If it new its a good deal if its used you might want to think about it.

melchloboo · January 15, 2009, 06:05 PM

1. 22A - I personally would pass. For several reasons. 1) The 22A is not a widely adopted bullseye platform. I have to give the same answer for Baretta Neos. This means you are basically without the benefit of input and advice from other bullseye shooters. You would be plotting uncharted territory. Might be great, but maybe not. If you're really going to compete you'll be putting thousands of rounds through the gun. How does it hold up? Perhaps great, but as I say, its unproven. 2) One concern would be the lack of aftermarket grip options. I think they have 1 wood grip set from S&W though. 3) Weight. I believe the gun and the neo are very light. This is not necessarily a good thing in a target pistol. A gun has to balance for one, but also have some meat to suppress recoil for rapid fire, even with a .22. 4) Resale value.

Last and most IMPORTANT: trigger. Is it adjustable? What is the factory weight? What do you have to do to get it down to 2.x lbs? Who will do it?

2. VQ guns. They all look cool, but don't expect them to shoot any better than a plain old ruger with a trigger job. I am not really sure how well they do in resale either. I think those with the $ will just get a M41 or a Hammerli.

darkgael · January 15, 2009, 06:47 PM

I, also, would pass on the Smith 22. It doesn't have the rep; it'd be a very big maybe. Volquartsen makes some very nice mods available for the Ruger. You can do the most important ones yourself for less than $100 and the cost of a the basic Ruger..... way less than a grand total.
For $1000, you can buy a number of proven target pistols - the Smith 41, as suggested, a used High Standard, maybe a used Hammerli if you are lucky.
Pete

LHB1 · January 15, 2009, 07:14 PM

I would pass on the S&W 22A and get a S&W M41 with 5.5" heavy barrel instead. Buy once, buy right, save money. Avoid buying twice because you definitely will want something better (M41) later. It is no accident that you find so many S&W M41 pistols on Bulleye competition firing lines.

Citizen Carrier · January 16, 2009, 12:35 AM

I have to agree with skipping the 22A as a bullseye pistol. It's a plinker, nothing more. Never saw anybody in the three bullseye leagues I've participated in using one.

Bare minimum, Ruger. At least in my experience.

Some will sing the praises of the Browning Buck Mark...but they might be syphilitic alcoholics for all I know...

mstuhr · January 16, 2009, 08:52 PM

Howdy,
It took a little work, but this one has a great trigger,and it will shoot groups with most anything. It will start to cob some when the mags get very dirty but routine mait. wards that off.

A Buckmark or a Ruger with a trigger job would be a good starting place as would any number of more expensive .22's
Good luck
Mike

DaveBeal · January 17, 2009, 12:02 AM

mstuhr, what grips are on that Buckmark?

ZeSpectre · January 17, 2009, 09:39 AM

Thanks guys. I think I'll pass on the S&W then and pick up a Ruger, and then later a Volq sear set I suppose.

I certainly do appreciate the help.

kle · January 17, 2009, 07:34 PM

I'd second holding off for a Ruger (Mk. II if you can find one).

But...you could always buy the 22A to get started, and then trade-up for a better gun once you've identified what works for you.

OldShooter · January 19, 2009, 04:45 PM

For little more than the price of the 22A you can find good used Ruger MkIIs or Buckmarks. A S&W 41 would be nice, but in a completely different price range. I shoot in a bullseye league using both a Ruger MkII and a Buckmark. So far for me the guns are not the limiting factor, I am. Other guys are using 41's and Pardini's but they also shoot better than me.

I had a 22A (bought used) and I was not happy with it; fussy about ammo and prone to slam fires. Could have been just that gun, but I'm not going back that way. Ididn't have it long.

Mike_In_MD · January 20, 2009, 12:03 PM

Do you want to get into Bullseye with a great setup for under 2K? The best bang for the buck IMO is to get a Kimber 1911 with target sights, and to buy a Unit 1 Marvel Preceision 22LR conversion kit. The Kimber 45 will cost you under 1K and is accurate enough to move you up to Master Classification. The Kimbers have excellent triggers out of the box. The Marvel Precision Unit 1 will shoot under 1.5" at 50 yards and can be bought for $400. In a couple of years if you are still into Bullseye and shooting near Master classification level, then buy a super tricked out $2K-3K 45 ACP and use the Kimber for the 22LR conversion unit.

ZeSpectre · January 20, 2009, 12:30 PM

Mike,
sounds like some interesting advice.
I want to get into bullseye shooting but my competition is really with myself so I'm not expecting to jump up to the top levels. Then again I don't want to suddenly find I shoot better than I thought and be limited by crap equipment.

kle · January 20, 2009, 12:34 PM

Well...maybe find a range somewhere that rents guns, including Rugers and S&Ws and Brownings? See which ones work for you; I'm certain that they'll all work about the same and be about as accurate as each other...

darkgael · January 20, 2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

The Kimbers have excellent triggers out of the box. The Marvel Precision Unit 1 will shoot under 1.5" at 50 yards and can be bought for $400.

That is true. Here's the "But" as I see it......I went the conversion route. The bottom line is that, despite the excellent trigger on the Kimber, it is still a trigger on a .45 automatic and is not of the same quality that you will get on a dedicated .22. It may be better than a Ruger Mk.II but it's not as good as that on a Smith 41, a Pardini, a Walther, a High Standard, a Hammerli. A conversion kit is convenient and affordable but it is also a compromise.
Pete

kle · January 20, 2009, 12:47 PM

I went/am going a different route: revolvers. Without all the linkages involved in semi-autos, I find the triggers in my revolvers to be second-to-none. Like, they barely move, and the hammer drops. I don't even find myself going all the way, in overtravel, and hitting the trigger stops.

They're not cheap, certainly--my S&W 617 cost a pretty penny, and I've been looking for a S&W 625 to go with it to shoot .45 and am gradually coming to understand that I'll probably need to pay about $700 for one, used--and to get that really nice trigger you have to do extra work (break your grip, reach up with the thumb, and cock the hammer), but they work for me.

Mike_In_MD · January 20, 2009, 12:54 PM

ZeSpectre

That's what Bullseye is all about, competing against yourself. The people I've met along the way have been helpful and very nice. I've been enjoying this sport informally for the last 3 years, and this year I picked up the 45 and shot in 5 sanctioned NRA 2700 matches. When I started out I bought the Model 41, it's a great pistol, but belive it or not I can shoot the Marvel just as good. My 22LR scores are averaging in the mid 850's out of 900 with both guns. My Marvel is on top of a Kimber Gold Match that has a 3 1/2 pound trigger. I also have a Colt with a 4 pound trigger and can still shoot that score using the Marvel Unit 1.

Good luck, and keep the trigger moving.

Mike_In_MD · January 20, 2009, 01:02 PM

Kle,

I have a S&W Model 14 (38 SPL) that I sometimes shoot on league nights for fun. It's a blast. On timed and rapid my 1st shot is single action, and the others are double action. It takes getting used to, but it's all about trigger control. I'd like to have a Curio and Relic K22 Masterpiece to go with it.

kle · January 20, 2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_In_MD

Kle,

I have a S&W Model 14 (38 SPL) that I sometimes shoot on league nights for fun. It's a blast. On timed and rapid my 1st shot is single action, and the others are double action. It takes getting used to, but it's all about trigger control. I'd like to have a Curio and Relic K22 Masterpiece to go with it.

On timed- and rapid- with my 17-8/617-4/617-6, I actually cock the hammer for every shot; I usually have half-a-second to a whole second to spare in the rapid-fire, and I pull in decent scores--roughly 195 out of 200 (my league shoots a double National Match course) in both stages. I've been looking for a S&W 14-6 or -7 (I'd prefer a -6; -7 was made with MIM parts) with the full-barrel underlug (to control muzzle-flip) and factory drilled-and-tapped frame (to mount a red dot) to complement my .22s...though I might as well D&T my 686-1 and use .38SPL-like loads in it.

darkgael · January 20, 2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

I pull in decent scores--roughly 195 out of 200 (

You are being modest. You are shooting 97+ on rapid fire targets - those are High Master averages - and doing so with a revolver. Better than "decent".
Pete

kle · January 20, 2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkgael

You are being modest. You are shooting 97+ on rapid fire targets - those are High Master averages - and doing so with a revolver. Better than "decent".
Pete

That's brought down a bit by my average 180s-185s in slowfire, though. Out of 600 points, I usually get somewhere between 570-580. Still a Master score, though, I guess.

And I haven't tried it with larger calibers, just 22s (see, I don't have a model 14 or 25/625, so I don't know how I'd do).

But thank you for the compliment!

darkgael · January 20, 2009, 03:15 PM

Take credit. That's fine shooting. And Mike in MD - also....if he's averaging in the mid 850's out of 900, he is shooting at or VERY close to Master scores.
And you both talk about it like everyone does it. Not. They don't.
Pete

January 15, 2009, 01:46 PM	#1
ZeSpectre Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Shenandoah Valley Posts: 3,276	Newby bullseye pistol I have a great deal on the table for a Smith & Wesson 22A pistol (5.5" barrel). Would such a pistol be a decent starting gun if I was interested in taking up Bullseye or should I just save up the scratch (however long that takes) for something else (say from Volqartsen like the Stingray)?

January 15, 2009, 06:47 PM	#7
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	new gun I, also, would pass on the Smith 22. It doesn't have the rep; it'd be a very big maybe. Volquartsen makes some very nice mods available for the Ruger. You can do the most important ones yourself for less than $100 and the cost of a the basic Ruger..... way less than a grand total. For $1000, you can buy a number of proven target pistols - the Smith 41, as suggested, a used High Standard, maybe a used Hammerli if you are lucky. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

January 15, 2009, 07:14 PM	#8
LHB1 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,545	I would pass on the S&W 22A and get a S&W M41 with 5.5" heavy barrel instead. Buy once, buy right, save money. Avoid buying twice because you definitely will want something better (M41) later. It is no accident that you find so many S&W M41 pistols on Bulleye competition firing lines. __________________ Good shooting and be safe. LB

January 16, 2009, 12:35 AM	#9
Citizen Carrier Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2008 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 671	I have to agree with skipping the 22A as a bullseye pistol. It's a plinker, nothing more. Never saw anybody in the three bullseye leagues I've participated in using one. Bare minimum, Ruger. At least in my experience. Some will sing the praises of the Browning Buck Mark...but they might be syphilitic alcoholics for all I know... __________________ Once you've got your sights adjusted to the ammunition you have, step away from the bench. In competition or the field...there are no benches.

January 16, 2009, 08:52 PM	#10
mstuhr Member Join Date: February 19, 2006 Location: MO Posts: 49	Time for a penicillin pill and a shot of VO Howdy, It took a little work, but this one has a great trigger,and it will shoot groups with most anything. It will start to cob some when the mags get very dirty but routine mait. wards that off. A Buckmark or a Ruger with a trigger job would be a good starting place as would any number of more expensive .22's Good luck Mike

January 15, 2009, 02:56 PM	#2
Dustin0 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 701	How much for it can you email or post pics of it.

January 15, 2009, 03:21 PM	#3
DaveBeal Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 158	For the cost of that Volquartsen spacegun, you can get a NIB S&W Model 41 - the best American-made .22LR bullseye pistol. Or for about half that much, a Ruger MkIII from which the Volquartsen is made.

January 15, 2009, 03:27 PM	#5
Dustin0 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 701	OH ok $195 for that gun is an ok deal I got one just like this for $201 out the door New in Box with Extra mag. I have used mine for Bullseye I feel that the gun shots better than I can shot it. http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...10&isFirearm=Y So If it new its a good deal if its used you might want to think about it.

January 15, 2009, 06:05 PM	#6
melchloboo Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2008 Posts: 279	1. 22A - I personally would pass. For several reasons. 1) The 22A is not a widely adopted bullseye platform. I have to give the same answer for Baretta Neos. This means you are basically without the benefit of input and advice from other bullseye shooters. You would be plotting uncharted territory. Might be great, but maybe not. If you're really going to compete you'll be putting thousands of rounds through the gun. How does it hold up? Perhaps great, but as I say, its unproven. 2) One concern would be the lack of aftermarket grip options. I think they have 1 wood grip set from S&W though. 3) Weight. I believe the gun and the neo are very light. This is not necessarily a good thing in a target pistol. A gun has to balance for one, but also have some meat to suppress recoil for rapid fire, even with a .22. 4) Resale value. Last and most IMPORTANT: trigger. Is it adjustable? What is the factory weight? What do you have to do to get it down to 2.x lbs? Who will do it? 2. VQ guns. They all look cool, but don't expect them to shoot any better than a plain old ruger with a trigger job. I am not really sure how well they do in resale either. I think those with the $ will just get a M41 or a Hammerli.

January 17, 2009, 12:02 AM	#11
DaveBeal Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 158	mstuhr, what grips are on that Buckmark?

January 17, 2009, 09:39 AM	#12
ZeSpectre Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Shenandoah Valley Posts: 3,276	Thanks guys. I think I'll pass on the S&W then and pick up a Ruger, and then later a Volq sear set I suppose. I certainly do appreciate the help.

January 17, 2009, 07:34 PM	#13
kle Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2007 Location: NoVA, USA Posts: 419	I'd second holding off for a Ruger (Mk. II if you can find one). But...you could always buy the 22A to get started, and then trade-up for a better gun once you've identified what works for you.

January 19, 2009, 04:45 PM	#14
OldShooter Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2006 Location: Maine Posts: 846	bullseye pistol For little more than the price of the 22A you can find good used Ruger MkIIs or Buckmarks. A S&W 41 would be nice, but in a completely different price range. I shoot in a bullseye league using both a Ruger MkII and a Buckmark. So far for me the guns are not the limiting factor, I am. Other guys are using 41's and Pardini's but they also shoot better than me. I had a 22A (bought used) and I was not happy with it; fussy about ammo and prone to slam fires. Could have been just that gun, but I'm not going back that way. Ididn't have it long.

January 20, 2009, 12:03 PM	#15
Mike_In_MD Member Join Date: August 12, 2006 Posts: 33	Do you want to get into Bullseye with a great setup for under 2K? The best bang for the buck IMO is to get a Kimber 1911 with target sights, and to buy a Unit 1 Marvel Preceision 22LR conversion kit. The Kimber 45 will cost you under 1K and is accurate enough to move you up to Master Classification. The Kimbers have excellent triggers out of the box. The Marvel Precision Unit 1 will shoot under 1.5" at 50 yards and can be bought for $400. In a couple of years if you are still into Bullseye and shooting near Master classification level, then buy a super tricked out $2K-3K 45 ACP and use the Kimber for the 22LR conversion unit.

January 20, 2009, 12:30 PM	#16
ZeSpectre Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Shenandoah Valley Posts: 3,276	Mike, sounds like some interesting advice. I want to get into bullseye shooting but my competition is really with myself so I'm not expecting to jump up to the top levels. Then again I don't want to suddenly find I shoot better than I thought and be limited by crap equipment.

January 20, 2009, 12:34 PM	#17
kle Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2007 Location: NoVA, USA Posts: 419	Well...maybe find a range somewhere that rents guns, including Rugers and S&Ws and Brownings? See which ones work for you; I'm certain that they'll all work about the same and be about as accurate as each other...

January 20, 2009, 12:47 PM	#19
kle Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2007 Location: NoVA, USA Posts: 419	I went/am going a different route: revolvers. Without all the linkages involved in semi-autos, I find the triggers in my revolvers to be second-to-none. Like, they barely move, and the hammer drops. I don't even find myself going all the way, in overtravel, and hitting the trigger stops. They're not cheap, certainly--my S&W 617 cost a pretty penny, and I've been looking for a S&W 625 to go with it to shoot .45 and am gradually coming to understand that I'll probably need to pay about $700 for one, used--and to get that really nice trigger you have to do extra work (break your grip, reach up with the thumb, and cock the hammer), but they work for me.

January 20, 2009, 12:54 PM	#20
Mike_In_MD Member Join Date: August 12, 2006 Posts: 33	ZeSpectre That's what Bullseye is all about, competing against yourself. The people I've met along the way have been helpful and very nice. I've been enjoying this sport informally for the last 3 years, and this year I picked up the 45 and shot in 5 sanctioned NRA 2700 matches. When I started out I bought the Model 41, it's a great pistol, but belive it or not I can shoot the Marvel just as good. My 22LR scores are averaging in the mid 850's out of 900 with both guns. My Marvel is on top of a Kimber Gold Match that has a 3 1/2 pound trigger. I also have a Colt with a 4 pound trigger and can still shoot that score using the Marvel Unit 1. Good luck, and keep the trigger moving. Last edited by Mike_In_MD; January 20, 2009 at 01:10 PM.

January 20, 2009, 01:02 PM	#21
Mike_In_MD Member Join Date: August 12, 2006 Posts: 33	Kle, I have a S&W Model 14 (38 SPL) that I sometimes shoot on league nights for fun. It's a blast. On timed and rapid my 1st shot is single action, and the others are double action. It takes getting used to, but it's all about trigger control. I'd like to have a Curio and Relic K22 Masterpiece to go with it.

January 20, 2009, 03:15 PM	#25
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	yep. Take credit. That's fine shooting. And Mike in MD - also....if he's averaging in the mid 850's out of 900, he is shooting at or VERY close to Master scores. And you both talk about it like everyone does it. Not. They don't. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member