Moving rifle collection cross country without CCW permit

higgens · June 9, 2012, 07:32 PM

A friend has a possible job relocation in the future from Arizona to western Pennsylvania and I am researching the laws. The route for the drive would be AZ, NM, TX, OK, AR, KY, WV, PA. As far I can find researching the law, transporting black rifles padlocked in "case" in accordance with FOPA is fine along this route. PA does not require a LTCF to carry rifles in a vehicle. These are gun friendly states, so not sure if FOPA would even be needed.

They would be transported in a SUV in this manner: black rifles and shotguns locked and unloaded in a hard container, ammo locked in a different hard container, all magazines unloaded. Do you see any legal problems doing this along this route? Issues with overnight stays?

Oklahoma is confusing me. It sounds like the case needs to be at the top of the pile and have a label on it like "plano" or "pelican". Is that right?
http://oklahomaconcealedcarry.com/Tr..._Firearms.html

Little details like this make it very tempting to fly for a few hours with them instead of driving 2200 miles and risk a traffic stop and legal problems.

Is there a strict legal definition for a gun case? Home-built wood box/locker with a padlock? A lockable toolbox, either plastic or metal?

Young.Gun.612 · June 9, 2012, 07:56 PM

My understanding is that the only laws to worry about are the ones in the states in which the journey begins and ends. The peaceable journey law allows you to drive through any state as long as they are unloaded and cased away from the driver's immediate reach.

oneounceload · June 9, 2012, 08:23 PM

There is no need for a CCW to transport long guns in the manner you describe. Of course if he is using a moving company for the rest of his things, he can always have them move his guns

**Aguila Blanca** · June 9, 2012, 08:47 PM

The Oklahoma law is a bit confusing as to how it would apply to a person from another state transiting through Oklahoma in the course of moving his household. However, for such situations there is the FOPA.

higgens · June 9, 2012, 09:35 PM

If stopped for a traffic issue, what is the proper way to answer an officer's question that is along the lines of "Do you have any weapons in the vehicle?"

"Officer I am traveling in compliance with 18 USC § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms"

oneounceload · June 10, 2012, 05:08 PM

Why would he ask you for a simple traffic stop? That is NOT a standard question and do not volunteer information. If it really comes down to telling him, mention they are in the back, properly cased and being transported

Brian Pfleuger · June 10, 2012, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Higgins

If stopped for a traffic issue, what is the proper way to answer an officer's question that is along the lines of "Do you have any weapons in the vehicle?"

"Officer I am traveling in compliance with 18 USC § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms"

Yes sir, I'm moving from X to Y and have my entire rifle collection locked in the trunk."

Mostly, you're not going to be asked, mostly there is no prohibition against long guns anyway. They generally don't need to be locked or anything, just unloaded. Not always, but usually.

musher · June 10, 2012, 07:44 PM

Well, you don't have to answer questions about whether or not you have weapons in the vehicle in the first place.

If you do answer such questions, you should tell the truth though.

**Aguila Blanca** · June 10, 2012, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musher

Well, you don't have to answer questions about whether or not you have weapons in the vehicle in the first place.

You don't?

A traffic stop is an official interaction. What's the source of your belief that you don't have to answer questions about firearms in your vehicle if a police officer in the course of an official interaction asks?

JWT · June 10, 2012, 09:34 PM

I've alway packed mine in the trunk or in a roof top carrier and never had any problem.

**tyme** · June 10, 2012, 09:51 PM

Quote:

A traffic stop is an official interaction. What's the source of your belief that you don't have to answer questions about firearms in your vehicle if a police officer in the course of an official interaction asks?

The 5th amendment?

It's a test to assess the driver's attitude and psychology. Even if you answer honestly that you have no guns or that you have guns and they're all legal, the officer has no reason to believe you. The officer doesn't care about guns in the trunk. He or she is looking for tells, nervousness, or is hoping to catch you in a lie. Whether it's guns, drugs, dead bodies, a million dollars, or nuclear weapons in the trunk is secondary to the officer. It's a fishing expedition, and I think it's absurd.

aarondhgraham · June 11, 2012, 08:43 AM

I don't get stopped very often,,,
But every time I have been stopped in Oklahoma (1996-2012),,,
I have always gotten the question of "Do you have any weapons in the vehicle.

Most times I've asked back,,,
"Why are you asking officer?"

I know it's a bit snippy,,,
But it's not my responsibility to answer.

OHP are not the friendliest officers on the roads,,,
They do seem to make the assumption that everyone is a law-breaker,,,
And that it's their sworn duty to figure out what law you are breaking this time out.

I don't care if they are "just looking for tells, nervousness, or lies",,,
If they can make the assumption of my apparent guilt,,,
I can make an assumption about their motives.

I'll never outright lie to any cop,,,
But silence isn't telling a lie.

Aarond

.

oneounceload · June 11, 2012, 09:28 AM

Quote:

I'll never outright lie to any cop,,,
But silence isn't telling a lie.

There IS a difference between lying and not telling the truth........

NJgunowner · June 11, 2012, 03:10 PM

I think what you meant was there is a difference between lying and not volunteering information. Any spoken untruth is a lie, it's how it works

**44 AMP** · June 11, 2012, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Why would he ask you for a simple traffic stop? That is NOT a standard question ...

Seems like it is a standard question these days. Often included are phrases like "for my safety..."

Wife got stopped last week. First time in nearly 20 years. And she was asked if there were any weapons or bombs in the car!

**Aguila Blanca** · June 12, 2012, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyme

Quote:

A traffic stop is an official interaction. What's the source of your belief that you don't have to answer questions about firearms in your vehicle if a police officer in the course of an official interaction asks?

The 5th amendment?

Wrong.

June 9, 2012, 07:32 PM	#1
higgens Junior Member Join Date: October 19, 2011 Location: AZ Posts: 6	Moving rifle collection cross country without CCW permit A friend has a possible job relocation in the future from Arizona to western Pennsylvania and I am researching the laws. The route for the drive would be AZ, NM, TX, OK, AR, KY, WV, PA. As far I can find researching the law, transporting black rifles padlocked in "case" in accordance with FOPA is fine along this route. PA does not require a LTCF to carry rifles in a vehicle. These are gun friendly states, so not sure if FOPA would even be needed. They would be transported in a SUV in this manner: black rifles and shotguns locked and unloaded in a hard container, ammo locked in a different hard container, all magazines unloaded. Do you see any legal problems doing this along this route? Issues with overnight stays? Oklahoma is confusing me. It sounds like the case needs to be at the top of the pile and have a label on it like "plano" or "pelican". Is that right? http://oklahomaconcealedcarry.com/Tr..._Firearms.html Little details like this make it very tempting to fly for a few hours with them instead of driving 2200 miles and risk a traffic stop and legal problems. Is there a strict legal definition for a gun case? Home-built wood box/locker with a padlock? A lockable toolbox, either plastic or metal?

June 11, 2012, 08:43 AM	#12
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	It's a fairly standard question in Oklahoma,,, I don't get stopped very often,,, But every time I have been stopped in Oklahoma (1996-2012),,, I have always gotten the question of "Do you have any weapons in the vehicle. Most times I've asked back,,, "Why are you asking officer?" I know it's a bit snippy,,, But it's not my responsibility to answer. OHP are not the friendliest officers on the roads,,, They do seem to make the assumption that everyone is a law-breaker,,, And that it's their sworn duty to figure out what law you are breaking this time out. I don't care if they are "just looking for tells, nervousness, or lies",,, If they can make the assumption of my apparent guilt,,, I can make an assumption about their motives. I'll never outright lie to any cop,,, But silence isn't telling a lie. Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

June 9, 2012, 07:56 PM	#2
Young.Gun.612 Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2010 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 400	My understanding is that the only laws to worry about are the ones in the states in which the journey begins and ends. The peaceable journey law allows you to drive through any state as long as they are unloaded and cased away from the driver's immediate reach.

June 9, 2012, 08:23 PM	#3
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	There is no need for a CCW to transport long guns in the manner you describe. Of course if he is using a moving company for the rest of his things, he can always have them move his guns

June 9, 2012, 08:47 PM	#4
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	The Oklahoma law is a bit confusing as to how it would apply to a person from another state transiting through Oklahoma in the course of moving his household. However, for such situations there is the FOPA.

June 9, 2012, 09:35 PM	#5
higgens Junior Member Join Date: October 19, 2011 Location: AZ Posts: 6	If stopped for a traffic issue, what is the proper way to answer an officer's question that is along the lines of "Do you have any weapons in the vehicle?" "Officer I am traveling in compliance with 18 USC § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms"

June 10, 2012, 05:08 PM	#6
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Why would he ask you for a simple traffic stop? That is NOT a standard question and do not volunteer information. If it really comes down to telling him, mention they are in the back, properly cased and being transported

June 10, 2012, 07:44 PM	#8
musher Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2005 Posts: 462	Well, you don't have to answer questions about whether or not you have weapons in the vehicle in the first place. If you do answer such questions, you should tell the truth though.

June 10, 2012, 09:34 PM	#10
JWT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2007 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 3,888	I've alway packed mine in the trunk or in a roof top carrier and never had any problem.

June 11, 2012, 03:10 PM	#14
NJgunowner Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 1,254	I think what you meant was there is a difference between lying and not volunteering information. Any spoken untruth is a lie, it's how it works