Ohio Leo abuse of CCW carrier.

hogdogs · July 18, 2011, 07:40 AM

If this has been brought up here already... I apologize.
So if what is stated in the quote is half way true... We have a rogue cop-broken arrow that needs removed from public service ASAP!

I think I would have gone on a tirade of my own following such abuse!!!

http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53994

Quote:

Encounter - bad, really bad

Postby cptmack » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:58 pm
Hello everyone. Been awhile since I've posted. I guess the good news is concealed carry seems to have gotten "normal." There just don't seem to be as many exciting issues anymore.

I am representing someone in a failure to notify case. It is an ongoing legal case, so I dont want to post too much here right now. I watched the video today, and it verified an almost unbelievable story my client told me. To make this real brief - my client was stopped. Tried to notify, but was told by one officer to shut up. Another officer came to the driver's side door, and again my client tried to notify. You can hear him in the video say "I've got . . ." before he his cut off with a profanity laced tirade, and demand for his driver's license. My clent hands the officer his license, tries to notify again while holding his CHL in his hand. The officer says "What? What are you waving around that you want me to see?" He takes it, looks at it, while my client says "I'm trying to tell you . . ." The officer asks, "do you have a gun? My guy says "Yes" and then is pushed against his vehicle while the officer takes the gun from my client's waistband holster. The total time from the officer approaching the car door to being told he has a gun was 55 seconds.

It gets worse from there. The officer tells my guy that "I should blast you right in the mouth." "I'm close to caving in your head." "You are a stupid human being." "How would you like it if I pull mine and stick it to your head." When speaking to another officer, he says "I hate these expletive deleted - Jake with their gd permits." And, again, later tells my client "I should have taken 2 steps back, put 10 rounds in your expletive deleted - Jake, and left you lying there. I should have executed you, and I'd go home and sleep good tonight."

Internal affairs was notified. I am having a difficult time conveying the intensity involved. This was bad, really bad scene.

Sorry I can't say more right now. Be careful out there!!

Edit to add one more bit of information. My client was stopped in his motor vehicle at the time. He was in a no parking zone. This was not the result of a high speed chase or anything like that.

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Brent

Skadoosh · July 18, 2011, 07:46 AM

Holy smokes.

Davey · July 18, 2011, 10:04 AM

Me thinks there is at least one resume out there that needs updating.

BGutzman · July 18, 2011, 10:08 AM

I have the upmost respect for the average officer on a beat... Every group has a few bad apples and if this is as advertised then this is one officer who needs to get a resume out.

**Aguila Blanca** · July 18, 2011, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGutzman

I have the upmost respect for the average officer on a beat... Every group has a few bad apples and if this is as advertised then this is one officer who needs to get a resume out.

You are much more charitable than I am. I have NO respect for the average officer, because in my experience the average officer acts pretty much like the one in this incident. The good ones are the exceptions, not the bad ones.

Patriot86 · July 18, 2011, 12:46 PM

I have had the "bad" cop encounter myself with the Alachua County Sheriffs office, but I have also had a few "good" cop encounters with them too. Like others have said, for every few good apples you might have one bad.

If you have the tape, I would go right to the NRA and see if they are willing to help. The Media might be a good idea too. If they are intent on ramrodding this poor guy and it is truly have such an egregious case of police abuse then I think it is the right thing to do.
I can't say how many insane gun cases over the years have been dropped the second they made the O'Reilly Factor or similar shows.

**Tom Servo** · July 18, 2011, 01:22 PM

Has video of the encounter been released? I'd like to know more before forming a judgement. There are two sides to every story.

hogdogs · July 18, 2011, 02:36 PM

Tom, everyone, I know nothing more of this than the ohio forum is stating... This was cross posted on a local fishing/hunting/coconut telegraph forum. If not for that I wouldn't have had a clue about it. If the super sleuths can find media or official reports please post 'em up...

Brent

**Tom Servo** · July 18, 2011, 03:11 PM

The problem is, without anything more, there's not much point in us discussing it at all. If it did happen, and it happened the way the guy claims, it's truly unfortunate.

However, I've seen and heard my share of stories starting with "OMG jackboot thugs abuse CCW guy!1!" that end up being overblown or simply false. If they didn't start with that intent, they end up going in that direction.

One of the guys on the forum mentions that "things will never change until gun owners have their Rodney King moment." It's an absolutely infantile, inaccurate, and irresponsible statement, but there are some folks who go out with the intent of provoking such a thing from scratch. It doesn't do any of us any favors.

wobblygoblin · July 20, 2011, 10:20 PM

This is a 17 minute video but I recommend you watch it all the way through for context.

Things heat up around 5 minutes. Ohioans for Concealed Carry are all over this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kassP7zI0qc

Don H · July 20, 2011, 10:40 PM

Is this the video of the incident under dicussion in this thread? http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=457177

Davey · July 20, 2011, 10:43 PM

I take it this is the video of the recently discussed OH cop incident. I'm afraid to watch.

hogdogs · July 20, 2011, 10:48 PM

Can anyone "capture" this in case it gets pulled down?

Brent

Patriot86 · July 20, 2011, 10:59 PM

As an American this video makes me angry.
The officers in this video should be fired and any civil suit should be paid in full to the driver. I am not normally one to solve things with lawsuits, but in such a grievous case I think some "payback" is in order. I would also say that the Justice Dept. should bring some sort of civil rights suit.

hogdogs · July 20, 2011, 11:07 PM

Don, It is the same case I started the thread about that you linked to... I hit report asking they be joined since more evidence such as this vid was not available then.

Brent

Webleymkv · July 20, 2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Is this the video of the incident under dicussion in this thread?

Yes, I believe they're one in the same as more details (as well as the same link) are provided in the link to the Ohio forum in the thread you posted (video is on page 18).

http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.p...3994&start=255

I also note that, on the Ohio forum, the poster who claims (I have no reason to doubt him) to be the driver's (from the video) attorney states the following

Quote:

At the first pretrial, the prosecutor offered to dismiss all charges for a release of liability (promise they wouldnt be sued).

This tells me that the prosecutor knows the charges are bogus, his case is very weak, and that the officers are out of line. The driver's attorney apparently refused the offer.

hogdogs · July 20, 2011, 11:09 PM

Quote:

The driver's attorney apparently refused the offer.

As well he should!!!

Brent

Al Norris · July 20, 2011, 11:14 PM

Threads merged.

blackriderhank · July 20, 2011, 11:15 PM

One comment I agree with "This policeman is unstable and should NOT be allowed on the street." Why all the name calling and vulgarity? Is this what law abiding ccw have to look forward to. Why was the car searched without permission or cause?
Man followed "orders" and then is arrested? This is not a peace officer. This is a thug with a badge!

hogdogs · July 20, 2011, 11:20 PM

The cop will claim he had PC when he seen a woman with a known record as a hooker...

In this case it is highly likely the driver knew her only innocently... I was a cabby for a short while and in that time I met many folks... only later did I learn of the nefarious behavior of many of them...

And I did haul many "fares" on a "dope run" that I had no clue on the onset of the trip... None of my business what a fare does in the address they want a ride to and have me run the "sit meter" to wait on them.

Brent

Davey · July 20, 2011, 11:23 PM

Seems the video doesn't do a fabulous job of illustrating that the driver wasn't allowed to inform the officers that he was carrying.

Cop is still a thug though.

hogdogs · July 20, 2011, 11:31 PM

If what I read is correct, their law requiring he proclaim the gun states something like "when approached" he has his permit in hand when approached for the first time and the cop never shut his cake grinder off long enough for the guy to tell him until the guy finally gets a word in edge wise...

I don't know about you but I learned long ago that trying to out talk a thug cop or tell him to listen up rarely will go in your favor... the only way the guy could have informed sooner would have been to blurt out... " I HAVE A GUN!!!" And I doubt it would have gone any better for the guy!

Very new CCWP holder at that... likely took the class because of the number of risks of assault while sweeping parking lots all night. I also did that career and it can get very dicey with sketchy individuals or groups of individuals behind a closed shopping center. These folks know that no one can see what is going on.

Brent

Patriot86 · July 20, 2011, 11:34 PM

Little fact, not sure anyone cares...I have seen some posts on youtube that the cops in question are Ohio Highway Patrol(or whatever the state police in Ohio are called) not Canton PD.

hogdogs · July 20, 2011, 11:44 PM

Patriot, in the initial seconds, the text on the vid plainly states that the city AND canton PD are investigating the incident...

And it is highly unusual to find highway patrol officers ridin' dark in town and making these sort of stops... least anywhere I lived.

Brent

blackriderhank · July 20, 2011, 11:51 PM

PC for a "known hooker" outside of the car? Two sides to every story? I saw the video of the stop from the police car, not one side of the story but both sides of the story as it happened.So tired of folks saying only one side was shown, when the stop was recorded by the police. What side did I miss? All partys involved were on the video. The thug "cop" said he would be justified murdering the ccw holder because he was stupid? Really? Is that all it takes for a LEO to use deadly force? If so my country has become nazi germany and we have lost our rights and any freedom we have known.

July 18, 2011, 07:46 AM	#2
Skadoosh Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2010 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 2,016	Holy smokes. __________________ NRA Life Member USN Retired

July 18, 2011, 10:08 AM	#4
BGutzman Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2009 Location: Frozen Tundra Posts: 2,414	I have the upmost respect for the average officer on a beat... Every group has a few bad apples and if this is as advertised then this is one officer who needs to get a resume out. __________________ Molon Labe

July 18, 2011, 01:22 PM	#7
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	Has video of the encounter been released? I'd like to know more before forming a judgement. There are two sides to every story. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

July 18, 2011, 03:11 PM	#9
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	The problem is, without anything more, there's not much point in us discussing it at all. If it did happen, and it happened the way the guy claims, it's truly unfortunate. However, I've seen and heard my share of stories starting with "OMG jackboot thugs abuse CCW guy!1!" that end up being overblown or simply false. If they didn't start with that intent, they end up going in that direction. One of the guys on the forum mentions that "things will never change until gun owners have their Rodney King moment." It's an absolutely infantile, inaccurate, and irresponsible statement, but there are some folks who go out with the intent of provoking such a thing from scratch. It doesn't do any of us any favors. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

July 20, 2011, 10:20 PM	#10
wobblygoblin Junior Member Join Date: July 20, 2011 Posts: 1	OH permit holder threatened by Canton PD This is a 17 minute video but I recommend you watch it all the way through for context. Things heat up around 5 minutes. Ohioans for Concealed Carry are all over this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kassP7zI0qc

July 18, 2011, 10:04 AM	#3
Davey Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2010 Location: Not far enough from Chicago Posts: 394	Me thinks there is at least one resume out there that needs updating.

July 18, 2011, 12:46 PM	#6
Patriot86 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2010 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,293	I have had the "bad" cop encounter myself with the Alachua County Sheriffs office, but I have also had a few "good" cop encounters with them too. Like others have said, for every few good apples you might have one bad. If you have the tape, I would go right to the NRA and see if they are willing to help. The Media might be a good idea too. If they are intent on ramrodding this poor guy and it is truly have such an egregious case of police abuse then I think it is the right thing to do. I can't say how many insane gun cases over the years have been dropped the second they made the O'Reilly Factor or similar shows.

July 18, 2011, 02:36 PM	#8
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Tom, everyone, I know nothing more of this than the ohio forum is stating... This was cross posted on a local fishing/hunting/coconut telegraph forum. If not for that I wouldn't have had a clue about it. If the super sleuths can find media or official reports please post 'em up... Brent

July 20, 2011, 10:40 PM	#11
Don H Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2000 Location: SLC,Utah Posts: 2,704	Is this the video of the incident under dicussion in this thread? http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=457177 __________________ Don http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com/forum/

July 20, 2011, 10:43 PM	#12
Davey Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2010 Location: Not far enough from Chicago Posts: 394	I take it this is the video of the recently discussed OH cop incident. I'm afraid to watch.

July 20, 2011, 10:48 PM	#13
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Can anyone "capture" this in case it gets pulled down? Brent

July 20, 2011, 10:59 PM	#14
Patriot86 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2010 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,293	As an American this video makes me angry. The officers in this video should be fired and any civil suit should be paid in full to the driver. I am not normally one to solve things with lawsuits, but in such a grievous case I think some "payback" is in order. I would also say that the Justice Dept. should bring some sort of civil rights suit.

July 20, 2011, 11:07 PM	#15
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Don, It is the same case I started the thread about that you linked to... I hit report asking they be joined since more evidence such as this vid was not available then. Brent

July 20, 2011, 11:14 PM	#18
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	Threads merged.

July 20, 2011, 11:15 PM	#19
blackriderhank Member Join Date: May 7, 2011 Location: SC Wisconsin Posts: 21	One comment I agree with "This policeman is unstable and should NOT be allowed on the street." Why all the name calling and vulgarity? Is this what law abiding ccw have to look forward to. Why was the car searched without permission or cause? Man followed "orders" and then is arrested? This is not a peace officer. This is a thug with a badge!

July 20, 2011, 11:20 PM	#20
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	The cop will claim he had PC when he seen a woman with a known record as a hooker... In this case it is highly likely the driver knew her only innocently... I was a cabby for a short while and in that time I met many folks... only later did I learn of the nefarious behavior of many of them... And I did haul many "fares" on a "dope run" that I had no clue on the onset of the trip... None of my business what a fare does in the address they want a ride to and have me run the "sit meter" to wait on them. Brent

July 20, 2011, 11:23 PM	#21
Davey Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2010 Location: Not far enough from Chicago Posts: 394	Seems the video doesn't do a fabulous job of illustrating that the driver wasn't allowed to inform the officers that he was carrying. Cop is still a thug though.

July 20, 2011, 11:31 PM	#22
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	If what I read is correct, their law requiring he proclaim the gun states something like "when approached" he has his permit in hand when approached for the first time and the cop never shut his cake grinder off long enough for the guy to tell him until the guy finally gets a word in edge wise... I don't know about you but I learned long ago that trying to out talk a thug cop or tell him to listen up rarely will go in your favor... the only way the guy could have informed sooner would have been to blurt out... " I HAVE A GUN!!!" And I doubt it would have gone any better for the guy! Very new CCWP holder at that... likely took the class because of the number of risks of assault while sweeping parking lots all night. I also did that career and it can get very dicey with sketchy individuals or groups of individuals behind a closed shopping center. These folks know that no one can see what is going on. Brent

July 20, 2011, 11:34 PM	#23
Patriot86 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2010 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,293	Little fact, not sure anyone cares...I have seen some posts on youtube that the cops in question are Ohio Highway Patrol(or whatever the state police in Ohio are called) not Canton PD.

July 20, 2011, 11:44 PM	#24
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Patriot, in the initial seconds, the text on the vid plainly states that the city AND canton PD are investigating the incident... And it is highly unusual to find highway patrol officers ridin' dark in town and making these sort of stops... least anywhere I lived. Brent

July 20, 2011, 11:51 PM	#25
blackriderhank Member Join Date: May 7, 2011 Location: SC Wisconsin Posts: 21	PC for a "known hooker" outside of the car? Two sides to every story? I saw the video of the stop from the police car, not one side of the story but both sides of the story as it happened.So tired of folks saying only one side was shown, when the stop was recorded by the police. What side did I miss? All partys involved were on the video. The thug "cop" said he would be justified murdering the ccw holder because he was stupid? Really? Is that all it takes for a LEO to use deadly force? If so my country has become nazi germany and we have lost our rights and any freedom we have known.