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Old December 4, 2017, 04:55 PM   #1
AFVet
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Found in the West Texas Desert - No Headstamp

I thought I was good at google but I'm having a hard time nailing this down. Hoping an expert can help me identify what exactly it is.
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Old December 4, 2017, 05:03 PM   #2
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I can only lead you to the book, (Cartridges of the World). A lot of information
covering obsolete cartridges in that.
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Old December 4, 2017, 05:07 PM   #3
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Check this on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cartridges-...sAAOSwjW9ZlhPu
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Old December 4, 2017, 07:10 PM   #4
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44 Game Getter or 44 Colt Lightning.
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Old December 5, 2017, 10:40 AM   #5
Mike Irwin
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You need to give us the case head diameter, the rim diameter, and the case length.

It's too difficult to tell what those measurements are by trying to read your photographs of your micrometer dial.
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Old December 5, 2017, 12:17 PM   #6
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I just took a measurement of an empty case. What you have appears to be an old 50-70 govt. spent case.

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Old December 5, 2017, 02:22 PM   #7
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"...appears to be an old 50-70 Govt. spent case..." Might be 19th Century vintage too. U.S. Army from 1866 to 1873. Assorted natives, like Geronimo, after that.
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd5070government.jpg
Where in the West Texas Desert?
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Old December 7, 2017, 01:14 AM   #8
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Not .50-70, the head measurement is .470", almost .100" smaller than a .50-70 cartridge base size. Case length is 1.3", .050" shorter than the .50-70 Gov't. I still say 44 Game Getter or 44 Colt Lightning.

It is a balloon head cartridge case, so the period we are talking about is about right, late 19th Century.
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Where in the West Texas Desert?
In west Texas, of course! Pretty sure it's west of east Texas. But as big as Texas is, you never know!
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Old December 8, 2017, 01:32 AM   #9
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Quote:
the head measurement is .470"
I blew the picture up and he did not measure the 0.470" across the rim. The measurement is actually just in front of the rim re: case body.

He should have measured across the rim.

The last picture shows the case to be 1.300" long and the 50-70 case is 1.750".
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Old December 8, 2017, 10:34 PM   #10
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I think I'm getting a bit confused with all the measurements that are being given. Here are the measurements for the 45 Colt. If the length is 1.3, it is close to a 45 Colt. How doe the measurements of the actual using in question line up with the following? Remove hat this is a spent casing that has been fired in a chamber of unknown dimensions. I have some fired 45 Colt balloon casings but unfortunately, they are back in MI and I am in AZ so I don't have access to measure some of them.

45 Colt
Case type Rimmed, straight
Bullet diameter .454 in (11.5 mm)
Neck diameter .480 in (12.2 mm)
Base diameter .480 in (12.2 mm)
Rim diameter .512 in (13.0 mm)
Rim thickness .060 in (1.5 mm)
Case length 1.285 in (32.6 mm)
Overall length 1.600 in (40.6 mm)
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Old December 9, 2017, 10:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
I blew the picture up and he did not measure the 0.470" across the rim. The measurement is actually just in front of the rim re: case body
I didn't say he measured the rim, I said he measured the case head. The case head is not the rim, it is the point in front of the rim. The case body diameter is farther up the case and can vary because many cases are tapered. The points to measure are the case rim, the case head, the shoulder if any, the case mouth, and the case length.
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Old December 10, 2017, 05:08 AM   #12
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Apparently the OP gave up on this because he has not responded in 5 days and it was his first post. Another drive by.
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Old December 15, 2017, 08:00 AM   #13
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Old December 15, 2017, 10:35 AM   #14
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You want to fight Texas v. Canada?

Do it somewhere else.
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Old December 15, 2017, 11:09 AM   #15
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Diameter just in front of rim .470? Case length 1.3? Bottleneck case, no neck diameter
given. If the neck is in the .415-.420 range and the rim is .525ish--- 38 WCF (38-40)

FWIW--that long taper from case body to neck and a relatively short
straight neck section is typical of fired 38-40. The straight neck is much
longer on loaded ammo.
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Old January 9, 2018, 06:38 PM   #16
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I vote that it's a 44-40. If not, then it's a 38-40.
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Old January 9, 2018, 06:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
I still say 44 Game Getter or 44 Colt Lightning.
What are you calling a .44 Lightening? AFAIK there was no cartridge by that name. The Colt Lightening was originally chambered in 44-40 but in a variety of calibers later on. The model 1877 revolver was chambered in .32 Colt, .38 Long Colt and a .41 Long Colt.
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Old January 10, 2018, 10:47 AM   #18
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Wanna bet?

Yes, tacitly, it was a .44-40, but it was decidedly identified as a separate cartridge.

Same with the .38-40.

Good discussion here of the CLMR cartridges.

http://www.oldammo.com/august13.htm

http://www.icollector.com/Box-of-Uni...fles_i10496430

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Old January 20, 2018, 05:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
What are you calling a .44 Lightening? AFAIK there was no cartridge by that name
Just trying to inject some humor here. FYI, yes, there was a cartridge called the 44 Colt Lightning. And a 44 Game Getter. And a 44 Marlin. Probably others, as well. They were all variations of the 44 WCF, or 44-40 as Colt called it, with different bullet weights or just different names for manufacturers who did not want to put Winchester's name on their guns. So, 44-40.
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