Are there other 9mms the size of the Kahr CM9?

[HistoryJunky]

Here's my dilemma. For awhile now I've been considering getting a Kahr CM9. It's a lower price and diminutive size for a 9mm pistol interest me. Through a bit of research, I have learned that you are supposed to load the pistol exclusively by using the slide release.

The problem for me is that I am a left handed shooter. To my knowledge, they do not have an ambi-slide release. To me, this is an issue that would prevent me from buying the gun. On other weapons, I just manually rack the slide.

Are there other single stack 9mms that equal the Kahr in size? The other single stack 9s I know of are all larger. (Glock 43, XDS, Shield.)

[kozak6]

The manual for my Kahr MK9 says the same thing.

I don't have any issues slingshotting the slide. There's almost no slide travel left with the slide locked back, so it might be easier to fumble considering how stout the springs are, but that's about it.

It might be worth handling one in person or renting one to see if you are able to slingshot the slide.

[cc-hangfire]

A little larger is the SIG P290. I have the CM9 so I don't have an excuse to buy the P290 although I have the P250 and like it.

Check out YouTube; there are a couple of direct comparisons between these two handguns. The P290 is a few tenths-of-an-inch longer, and basically the same height. It is 5 or 6 oz heavier, and looks maybe +/-0.2" wider. It is a DAO hammer fired gun, & there isn't the same instruction to use the slide release to chamber a round. It may be your preference if the Khar isn't suitable.

[HistoryJunky]

I wish I could even find a Kahr around here. In my area, I've never seen any of them in my 5 years of shopping for guns. Renting one is an even more unlikely option.

I always thought it was strange they tell you to only use the slide release.

[railroader]

I wish I could even find a Kahr around here. In my area, I've never seen any of them in my 5 years of shopping for guns. Renting one is an even more unlikely option.

I always thought it was strange they tell you to only use the slide release.

I have a cm9. The reason for using the slide release is the slide has to be fully rearward and the slide has to be released firmly. If the slide isn't all the way back you will get a failure to feed. There isn't a lot of room for error. That said I carry my kahr all the time because it eats everything and runs like a top.

[MarkCO]

KelTec PF9, SCCY, S&W Shield, Ruger LCP and probably a dozen more.

I have two Kahr PM9s and a KT PF9 and while those are kind of at opposite ends of the spectrum in price and quality, the reliability of both are excellent.

[FITASC]

I'm LH and have the CM9 and find that to be a minor issue - but then I'm not using it for three gun or seeing the need for that rapid of a reload. I have also used the slingshot method at the range with zero issues. Mine has eaten every brand it's been fed.

[HistoryJunky]

Originally Posted by FITASC

I'm LH and have the CM9 and find that to be a minor issue - but then I'm not using it for three gun or seeing the need for that rapid of a reload. I have also used the slingshot method at the range with zero issues. Mine has eaten every brand it's been fed.

I get that it's a pocket gun. If I did have to reload though, I don't want that nagging worry about the slide release.

I don't use slide releases on any of my pistols so it's a training thing too. My hands are too small to reach.

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[JDBerg]

Through a bit of research, I have learned that you are supposed to load the pistol exclusively by using the slide release.

Well you can keep that one at your LGS, I strongly recommend you consider the Glock 43, a S&W Shield, or a Walther PPS M2 which I have.

[Wheelgun]

I'm left handed as well, and while I don't have the PM9, I have and carry a P380. I primarily release the slide with my index finger on all my traditional autos, and haven't had an issue doing that.

I will say that when trying to slingshot the slide on my P380 when it was new, I had some FTF issues. After break in, I haven't noticed it. Although, again, I primarily practice a slide release with my index figer.

-Wheelgun

[cc-hangfire]

Options to the Khar CM9:

From a brief internet search, these are the smallest popular, not extremely expensive, 9mm's. The dimensions listed are what I found online, and they vary some depending on the source. The width is slide width, not the widest dimension on the gun (i.e.: the Khar is 1.1" wide measured at the slide stop lever)

Handgun - Wt (oz), length, height, width (measurements in inches)

Single stacks
Diamondback DB9- 12.8, 5.6, 4.0, 0.81
Kel Tec PF9 - 14.7, 5.9, 4.4, 0.88
Khar PM9/CM9 - 16.6, 5.9, 4.1, 0.91
Ruger LC9 (& LC9s)- 17.0, 5.9, 4.4, 0.9
Beretta Nano - 19.8, 5.6, 4.3, 0.9
SIG P290 - 20.5, 5.5, 3.9, 0.91

Double Stack (10+1)
Kel Tec P11 - 14.2, 5.6, 4.3, 1.02

I have a DB9, but the rails broke (Diamondback was great & replaced that assembly) and therefore I am hesitant to recommend it for EDC. I have Kel Tecs, & if you are willing to fiddle with them (fluff & buff, keep lubricated) they have been reliable for me. I have the LC9, but haven't had it long; it's online reviews are excellent.

[5whiskey]

I understand the concern, as kahr says it in their manual, but I have never had an issue with manually racking the slide.

If you ponder the physics of it, there is nothing that the press of the slide stop lever will accomplish that the instant manual release of the slide at its rearmost point will not.

As an aside, I was a marksmanship instructor in the Marine Corps. As you probably realize, there are no ambi controls on issued weapons. Left handed marines are taught to use their off hand to work safeties and slide stops. Some of my better marksmen were lefties. Same in the police force. They work the gun just fine.

[SDF880]

Maybe try the SR-9C? I have fumbled thru many small handguns looking for the perfect small pocket 9, 40 and 45. While right now I have settled on the CM-40
the CM/PM-9 is a great carry option IMHO and you get one more round than my 40.

[lefteye]

I have an SR9c, an LCP and an LC9. I've have had 3 Kahr handguns and still have one. The SR9c is significantly larger than any of the Kahr pistols I have owned. The LC9 is smaller than a Kahr.

[Ibmikey]

S&W Shield is small in size, very thin and rather light weight. Mine has eaten everything i have fed it including some Winchester Steel case that i inadvertently ordered. My favorite is a Sig P 938 but i am not familiar with the size of a Kahr so cannot adequately compare the two. I dont think anything is as small or sweet shooting as the P 938.

[RolandD]

After a year of owning and firing a Kahr CT380 and CW9, here's my opinion of Kahr. They are finely made and as reliable as the user. There is a distinct learning curve to using a Kahr and it is quite possible that some people may never be physically able to shoot certain Kahr pistols reliably.

While researching carry weapons for my wife and I, we found that Kahrs had less perceived recoil than the other pistols we liked, so I began looking into them more. I read a lot about problems people had with reliability and noticed some common themes. Most folks had a lot of experience with full size hand guns and the majority of problems were with Kahrs two smallest pistols, the CW380 and CM9. Also, many were positive that it was the handgun and not themselves that were the issue. Since my wife was insistent on a .380, we opted for the CT380 and the CW9 for myself. Thinking that they would be easier to handle and learn to shoot well.

After a year of practice, my wife is still having problems with misfeeds and other issues directly attributable to limp wristing. Nosedives, failure to battery, failure to lock back slide after last round fired, etc. The same issues that many others complain about Kahrs. The thing is, I don't have those issues with the CT380 until I start getting really tired. Next week, we're going to start her training with the CW9 and I'm looking to trade the CT380 in on a CM9 or get another CW9 and cut it down to a Covert.

[weblance]

Originally Posted by lefteye

I have an SR9c, an LCP and an LC9. I've have had 3 Kahr handguns and still have one. The SR9c is significantly larger than any of the Kahr pistols I have owned. The LC9 is smaller than a Kahr.

The LC9 is absolutely not SMALLER than the CM9. The OP asked about pistols the same size as the CM9. The LC9 is the same size as the CW9 which is Kahrs middle size 9mm pistol. I have the SR9C, LC9, CM9 and CW9. The CM9 is the smallest of all those, by far.

[HistoryJunky]

I understand the concern, as kahr says it in their manual, but I have never had an issue with manually racking the slide.

If you ponder the physics of it, there is nothing that the press of the slide stop lever will accomplish that the instant manual release of the slide at its rearmost point will not.

As an aside, I was a marksmanship instructor in the Marine Corps. As you probably realize, there are no ambi controls on issued weapons. Left handed marines are taught to use their off hand to work safeties and slide stops. Some of my better marksmen were lefties. Same in the police force. They work the gun just fine.

Thanks for the assessment. That was my understanding as well, that there should be essentially no difference in function. Like I said, I always manually rack the slide anyways.

I understand your point about soldiers making non-ambidextrous weapons work for them. However, these are issued weapons, and the don't have a choice. I am a civilian, and I do have a choice. I just figured that I'd look for another option that was more friendly to me before making a compromise.

I do own a few pistols that are non-ambi aside from the safety, and they still work just fine. If I like a gun enough, I'll still buy it.

[NYPD13]

I have the CM40 which i believe is dimensionally identical to the CM9 and regardless of what the manual states I run the slide like all my other pistols without issue. The key to these pistols is remembering they're sub compact carry guns and not range/target pistols. Fatigue will set in quickly with diminished accuracy and reliability being the ultimate result. I will say it is an awesome pocket pistol.

[PewPewPachew]

What I'm curious about, is why Kahr felt they needed to say that the first round should only be fed with the slide release?

If it's an accuracy thing, it's not that uncommon for the first round from the magazine to be a "flyer". Whether you are using the release, or slingshot it, it's not quite the same as when it's loading a round during operation. So I think this point is essentially moot.

I'f it's a reliability issue, I just can't fathom what it could possibly be. There is usually some travel backwards in the slide from where it catches on the slide stop/release. I cant imagine that 1/10th of an inch or so would cause an issue. Does the Kahr have even less excess travel? Meaning the face stops directly behind the next round? If so I could see it not feeding, if it wasn't pulled back far enough to strip the next round. Yet somehow I doubt the tolerances would be so tight.

As the others have pointed out, if it bothers you, there are many alternatives. All depending on your budget an preference. I personally went with the P938. It's in another price point, and a different operating system. My runner-ups, where the M&P Shield, and Glock 43.

That's my $0.02.

[HistoryJunky]

It only bothers me because I too wonder why they insist it is important.

It's a price point thing too as most guns of that size don't cost more than 3 or 4 hundred dollars.

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[PewPewPachew]

The M&P Shield is certainly within that $400 range. The Glock 43 is just beyond that, with MSRP in the $500 area.

Are you against searching for a used pistol? A lot of them do hold their value pretty well, but it may open up your selection just a bit.


My advice, much as it is to everyone, with any kind of budget is...
If you can take the time, do yourself a favor and handle and shoot as many of them as you can. Ask around, see if someone nearby has one you could shoot. Take the hour drive to the city that has a range, with pistols to rent. You may find that one of the low end pistols (price, not necessarily quality) like the Kel Tec is just the ticket. On the other side, you may discover the Kimber Solo 9 is the one you can't live without.

Too often I hear about (and have been a victim on occasion) someone who bought a gun, only to realize they really didn't like it after just a few rounds. If it's one of the lower cost pistols you like, great! You could pick it up as soon as you figure it out. If it's more expensive, you should take the time to a.)save up for said pistol, b.) put one on layaway, c.)shop around for the best deal, d.) some combination of a, b, and c.

If you genuinely like it, you will be more likely and willing to practice with it and carry it.

[kozak6]

EDIT: I pulled up the manual online.

Do not chamber a round by pulling back on the
slide and letting go of the slide. This may cause
the slide to not go fully into battery

I would only see this as an issue if you gently released and eased the slide down, and maybe not even then. If you let it snap shut, it should be fine.

You could also contact Kahr and ask them what they think.

[HistoryJunky]

I think that is probably what I will end up doing. The closest range that rents is probably 2 hours away. It's not really practical.



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[HistoryJunky]

A

Originally Posted by kozak6

EDIT: I pulled up the manual online.



I would only see this as an issue if you gently released and eased the slide down, and maybe not even then. If you let it snap shut, it should be fine.

You could also contact Kahr and ask them what they think.

LlAttachment 104475

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