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Old July 15, 2009, 07:55 AM   #26
Gbro
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Mn outlawed baiting years back and I attended the public input meetings that take place prior to regulation changes.
This was way before CWD . The DNR stated that they wanted to get baiting under control before it became the problem that it is in Michigan. The example given was the hunters on public property were complaining because private landowners were baiting their property's so heavily that they were not getting opportunity's on public lands. They showed pictures of dump truck loads of pumpkins being used as bait.
To the surprise of many of us at the meeting, we learned that it had never been illegal to hunt over a salt lick. Mineral blocks are not bait in the MN DNR rules.
I myself have never baited. I do not see any difference between baiting and planting a garden just for hunting over either.
I do not fault anyone who puts the amount of work into deer harvesting that food gardens require. As long as what the hunter is doing is legal why would I care. I just don't do it myself.
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Old July 15, 2009, 08:15 AM   #27
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it just isnt right!

Put down a stack of $100's in the middle of the 5th avenue in NY City and its the same thing!

Deer ( any wild animal) is drawn to food like people are drawn to money... takes them out of thier natural tendancies...

Hunting is hunting... not baiting... just like fishing is fishing... not catching.
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Old July 15, 2009, 08:15 AM   #28
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I work with a guy that, with his friend, put in a 3 acre food plot with a walk behind rototiller.........that's nuttier than squirrel crap
I bought a $40,000 John Deere 5410 4X4 with a loader, a 13 foot grain drill, 9 foot disc and an 80 inch rotary tiller pretty much just do do food plots. Nutty? Probably. But, I get a kick out of it.
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Old July 15, 2009, 09:58 AM   #29
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Nothing wrong with saying, "Baiting is not my idea of hunting." But let's don't get into a frenzy to see who can bad-mouth the loudest. There are no prizes or trophies for "Snarkiest Comment of the Day".
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Old July 15, 2009, 05:03 PM   #30
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I do bait but at the same time I don't, it's completly natural. I hunt in an old apple orchard on my Grandfather's tree farm.
However, did anyone see the picture of a bait pile with a sign posted next to it that read, "This is not a bait pile, this is a compost pile, anything caught eating my compost will be shot on sight!".
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Old July 15, 2009, 11:54 PM   #31
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I think this is one of those topics where emotions get going.

We can bait here in FL but that doesn't mean you are going to have deer waiting in line to eat at your feeder. When I was on leases, I had feeders and food plots and I never saw a deer at a feeder, never mind shot one over the feeder. I did have a yearling doe feeding at my food plot tho'. All we ever got in our feeders were hogs and turkeys (not to shoot but they like corn).

If it is legal - go for it. Some guys like to hunt for meat and not for the "thrill of the hunt". If they can shorten their time in the woods, more power to them.

I sure wish I could shorten my time in the woods.
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Old July 16, 2009, 06:18 AM   #32
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People will probably think I am FOS, but I could kill fifty deer a year if it was legal and I had any reaosn to want to. My neighbor is not even a hunter and he killed forty some last year and has already killed thirteen this year. I don't make food plots to kill deer over because the odds of a good buck poking his head out in it before dark is just about zero.
They are good for the deer and they keep them out of my neighbors soy beans who will most certainly shoot the crap out of them of he sees them.
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Old July 16, 2009, 07:32 PM   #33
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and for that matter -we need to make sure ranchers dont put out any range cubes or mineral block or salt blocks.They attract deer too.

I mean really, we could beat this horse to death for a month.

Bottom line is this -its a bad case of allowed vs not allowed.Those state that allow it -everyone is fine with it.Those states that dont allow it-those people hate the idea.
What we as Hunters/Shooters should be more worried about is SOTOMAYOR..she is going to be the biggest challenge to the 2nd admen in a long time.This woman is racist and anti-gun.Supreme Court?? I dont think so.
Okay -I am off my soapbox now
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Old July 18, 2009, 02:28 AM   #34
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My main concern in this argument is HABITAT health and not the perceived sporting values of various types of hunting. Throughout most of Texas, the main problem we have is too many deer. The overabunce of deer limits forb diversity, prevents recruitment of important trees and shrubs, and lowers overall deer herd health (average weight of dressed does in/around Austin is under 70 pounds). Care to find a Spanish oak or cedar elm tree in the Edwards Plateau (two extremely important deciduous species for insects and songbirds as well as mast production for deer) under 30 years of age in this area that isn't protected by a cage, extreme slope, or some other way where deer can't prevent their growth? Good luck!

The last thing we need is more restrictions on how deer are harvested. Heck, we can't shoot enough given that we are allowed to bait and have a long season length.

We just opened up our bow season to crossbows. They should give us 20 tags instead of 5 and have the season run from Sept. 1 through the end of February. $0.02
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Old July 18, 2009, 09:19 AM   #35
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My main concern in this argument is HABITAT health and not the perceived sporting values of various types of hunting. Throughout most of Texas, the main problem we have is too many deer. The overabunce of deer limits forb diversity, prevents recruitment of important trees and shrubs, and lowers overall deer herd health (average weight of dressed does in/around Austin is under 70 pounds). Care to find a Spanish oak or cedar elm tree in the Edwards Plateau (two extremely important deciduous species for insects and songbirds as well as mast production for deer) under 30 years of age in this area that isn't protected by a cage, extreme slope, or some other way where deer can't prevent their growth? Good luck!
Last time I checked, feeding the deer helped to increase their numbers, not reduce them. A lot of hunters feed deer all year or at least feed them through much of the fall and winter so as to get the deer used to and continuing to come to the feeders.

And, it isn't just the deer that feed on young Spanish Oaks. They are readily overgrazed by cattle, domestic sheep, and domestic goat.
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Old July 18, 2009, 09:37 AM   #36
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The only thing we can bait in Me. are bear and coyote, no feeders for the wily whitetail, have a friend that got a warning about moving rotten apples from under his trees over to the forest edge if he left them under the tree he could shoot legally but not over the pile go figure only 25 yds difference. Hunting bear over bait is not my bag, I prefer hounds, but coyotes is a different proposition because I'm helping the deer herd.
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Old July 18, 2009, 11:09 AM   #37
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DNS, the "feeding" of deer on Texas deer leases is almost always just from a week or so before the start of the season until the end. Roughly 2.5 months. And, generally, the daily amount from a clock-feeder is merely enough to attract, not sustain.

The area that Austinite is talking about, there oughta be open season on does all year long and maybe even a bounty on them. For a year or six, anyway.
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Old July 18, 2009, 09:06 PM   #38
700REM
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Good Grief-

That statement is no where near true or factual.

Those of us who put out supplemental feed do so year round 24-7.

The idea of someone putting corn on the ground two weeks prior to deer season opening is not a hunter at all.The same goes for the person shooting deer under a feeder.I am sure there are a few that practice this procedure and then want to call themselves "hunting" but by far its only a few.
Get your facts straight!!

One of my favorites is this one: we drove to our blind and while doing so we put corn out at the same time.Then we jumped in our blind and shot the first doe we saw,man that was a great hunt.
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Old July 18, 2009, 09:44 PM   #39
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I had my dad make me these signs to keep them pesky deer off my corn piles...
Actually i do not bait but only due to regulations. Silly thing too as walmart has a half isle set up during season of various flavored licks and liquid syrups that are legal as heck.
For me I feel that if you shoot a deer over ANY bait and you claim it as a "HUNT" than your teeth should fall out of your mouth as punishment for lying. I would gladly pour out a sack of corn so long as I could shoot a couple deer over it.
You see, I am not a hunter for sport. I would rather pop the cork on a jug of un-aged corn liquor at a hunting camp and hang out away from the wiminz a few days... I amnot so lucky nor wealthy so I just shoot deer for meat. I don't travel more than a few miles so as not to waste money. I rate my success on pounds of meat in the freezer per dollar spent to get it. I actually total my practice rounds as well as those fired at deer to determine final cost per pound. I really try to stay under .40 cents per pound Cheap azz I admit it!
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Old July 18, 2009, 10:01 PM   #40
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I believe an unintended benefit of the no baiting law in MI is that the deer didn't go nocturnal from eating on huge bait piles at night. Several of us in my area saw more deer during the day than we have for a long time. Consequently we had more fun. It was actually worthwhile to hunt during the day, even all day.

I have baited in the past but am now hoping the ban is permanent.
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Old July 18, 2009, 10:27 PM   #41
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Brent, I'm with you on this one.

Whoever said that supplemental feeders do so 24/7 year round is being a good boy.

Most guys drop a couple hundred pounds of corn a week or two before the season and then hunt it. I hunted out of state once and was set up over a 200# corn pile...the squirrels were happy.
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Old July 18, 2009, 10:42 PM   #42
700REM
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Exactly 24-7

We dont hunt around the feeders either.The feeders are there but not used as a means to attract deer and then kill them under a feeder.Sorry-thats just not hunting.Most people on here dont know what a feeder is for or how to use one.Just going by what I have read on here.
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Old July 18, 2009, 10:49 PM   #43
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What I meant 700 - was that you are doing it as "the books say to".

Most guys don't have the time or money.
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Old July 19, 2009, 02:13 AM   #44
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I always thought it was deer hunting and not deer shooting. Baiting, hunting over food plots etc to me is not hunting. If you dont get a deer the whole season, then you dont. That is part of the sport. We no longer need to hunt to put meat on the table and havnt for many decades. I see no justification for baiting or food plots other than greed. Yes, I too would love to harvest and consume several deer a year but I am just as content to go out and enjoy a good days hunt without any succesful harvest. That gentlemen is what I call hunting. Thats my .02 worth.
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Old July 19, 2009, 02:47 AM   #45
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That is part of the sport. We no longer need to hunt to put meat on the table and havnt for many decades.
For some of us hunting is not nor ever has been a sport... in fact i thought a sport meant all the players were voluntarily in the game and knew the rules

Secondly, Some of us really do have to shoot for food. Our total income falls about 50-100 per month short of minimal expenses and our weekly grocery bill for a family of four will severely short us if it exceeds $50 per week. So this is why I hope to keep all game meat under forty cents per pound. my hog meat is currently exceeding a buck fifty as I haven't had the yield per pound of dog food i need.
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Old July 19, 2009, 07:35 AM   #46
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I get a kick out of what folks consider to be hunting or not hunting and the viamence behind whether one is or is not a "hunter." What a lot of it boils down to is whether or not somebody approves or can do what you do. It is sort of like the folks that think anything beyond what they put on their own guns is excessive or unnecessary ninja material or who want to argue over what a "true sniper" is or is not.

If you are not on the ground stalking and running down your own prey and/or firing at prey from a position of concealment then you are probably engaged in wildlife sniping, whether you are baiting or not. I find this amusing because the not-true hunters often end up being true snipers in the historical sense of the word.

Quote:
Most guys don't have the time or money.
Right. They usually live too far from their hunting property to maintain their feeders year 'round and/or only have a season-limited lease such that they can't put out feeders until just before the season starts. Some see feeding anytime other than just before and during the season as being cost-ineffective.
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Old July 19, 2009, 07:50 AM   #47
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To be a true hunter you should live naked out in the woods for at least a year and only use a pointed stick to hunt.
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Old July 19, 2009, 10:22 AM   #48
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700REM, as a percentage of all ranches, year-around feeding is a very small amount. Sure, some ranchers do. Heck, I run a clock feeder year-around for my house-pet quail, and used to do that with corn back at deer camp. But out of 4,000 landowners in the Terlingua Ranch's 240,000 acres, I was about the only one.
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Old July 19, 2009, 07:44 PM   #49
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The feeders only spin out for 2 or 3 seconds at a times twice a day. It doesn't provide enough corn to really feed them, just keep them interested in the area. By far, most of the corn is eaten after dark. In fact, we very seldom see a deer actually come to the feeder looking for a meal.
I would venture that if you set up a camera, you'd find coons and other critters eating most of that. Western hunting for mulies or pronghorns is a whole different story than Eastern hunting for whitetails.

Personally, I prefer "fair-chase" methods on the wide-open BLM lands of places like NV, but that's just me
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Old July 19, 2009, 08:58 PM   #50
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Totally agree.Fair chase all the way.I cant stand high fence places that call themselves "hunting".
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