.44 magnum or .44-40?

Alden · December 20, 2010, 09:15 PM

Which one is a better round?

Accuracy, weight, fps, fired out of an 18 to 20 inch rifle barrel.

My idea is that the .44 magnum is probably superior, given that it is a much more modern development, but I really don't know.

Jimro · December 20, 2010, 09:22 PM

44 Magnum, ammo is cheaper, and you can use 44 Special loads for low recoil shooting.

The 44-40 is plenty good, but ammo cost wins in my book.

Jimro

Alden · December 20, 2010, 09:29 PM

Jimro, are the bullets the same weight and the velocity about the same too? I know the .44-40 has a longer case, which would lead one to believe it's faster.

SIGSHR · December 20, 2010, 09:58 PM

Because of its straight walled case I think the 44 Magnum would be easier to reload-you can use carbide dies. Also I think the case is designed for higher pressures.

Trigger Finger · December 20, 2010, 10:26 PM

While the 44-40 is a good cartridge the 44 magnum is much more powerful.

This is true if you buy the ammo. I would estimate that the 44 magnum is about two to three times more powerful. If you buy the ammo there is no comparison. If you reload you can increase the 44-40 up to much higher power levels but still not as potent as a 44 magnum. You have to carefull what you shoot the 44-40 out of, older guns can't handle very high power levels.

You can reload the 44 magnum to higher power levels than you can buy or you can download the 44 mag to 44 special levels or slightly less than a 44-40.

Jimro · December 20, 2010, 11:00 PM

The difference is pressure, the 44 Magnum can be loaded to high pressure. The 44-40 is an older low pressure round.

The 44 Magnum will push a 240 gr pill around 1,500 fps, more from a carbine.

The 44-40 will push a 200 gr pill around 1,200 fps.

Now, both are really pistol rounds, and any animal you shoot will not be able to tell the difference. But 44 Mag is a lot cheaper, and more common.

Jimro

Iron Man · December 21, 2010, 12:41 AM

You can buy .44 magnums at Walmart. That sells it for me. Pair that with a Colt Anaconda and you have a heck of a set. But then, I also don't own a 44-40...my three 45 long colts are expensive enough.

Of course, the aforementioned logic is coming from a guy who shoots a Five-seveN and a Walther PP Super whose rounds are hard to get and impossible to get.

Trigger Finger · December 21, 2010, 01:14 AM

Iron Man, how do you like the PP Super? I have been trying to get one for quite awhile. Ammo would be a problem but these are one of the very best looking Walthers I have seen.

Alden · December 21, 2010, 07:40 AM

OK, so if it's that much less powerful than the .44 mag, yet it was once the most common round used in lever guns and has taken countless deer, I'm thinking economically and practically that a .44 magnum lever gun should suite my needs perfectly. I live in Florida, I mostly just shoot at the range, but when I do hunt, I don't take long shots, ever. Really, I just never have. Is thick and brushy where I hunt, and we mostly see hogs and small deer.

So, .45-70 ammo off the shelf (and you can't find that one at Walmart, where I buy most of my ammo) is about $30 for 20 rounds. .44-40 is probably about the same, I'm guessing, whereas .44 magnum is around $33 for 50.

Big, big difference there.

natman · December 21, 2010, 11:45 AM

The 44-40 has a terrific history. It's the cartridge that won the west.

However, aside from nostalgia, there is no advantage at all to the 44-40. The 44 mag is much more powerful, uses stronger brass, is easier to reload, the dies are carbide and components are easier to find and cheaper. Aside from that there's not much to recommend it.

Slamfire · December 21, 2010, 03:21 PM

I don't own a 44-40. Handled the cases.

The case walls are very thin, fired cases that I have picked up have powder dents.

Since the suckers are bottle necked, I guess you have to lube them and then trim them after each reload.

**44 AMP** · December 21, 2010, 10:37 PM

Consider a few things...
The .44-40 began as a black powder pistol round, launching its slug in the 900fps range. The case is a slight bottleneck, and the brass is thin. Modern ammo is loaded to pressures and velocities safe in the old black powder guns.

Yes, it gains in performance when fired from a carbine, all pistol rounds do.

The .44 Magnum is a modern handgun round, loaded to a much higher pressure, launching its bullets in the 1200-1600fps range, depending on weight and load. It is a straight wall case, and designed with magnum pressures in mind. Fired from a carbine, it is significantly more powerful than the .44-40 in a similar carbine, just as it is in a handgun.

True enough, no animal will know the difference with a good shot, but the higher velocities of the .44 mag make it easier for the shooter to make a good shot at longer (for the class of round) ranges.

RoosterJ · May 9, 2017, 03:48 AM

I reload both the 44 mag and the 44-40. I shoot the magnum rounds in a Henry and the 44-40 rounds in a Winchester model 92. The 44-40 shells are much thinner, therefor they are not capable of holding as much pressure as the magnum round. Both use the same bullet. The older shell can be squeezed together somewhat with just your fingers/thumb. You can't do that with the magnum round. The 44-40 cost more and can only find them online.

mehavey · May 9, 2017, 06:15 AM

Brass does not hold pressure. The surrounding steel does.
(EX: I regularly use "thin" 32-20 brass in my 30 Carbine Rugers -- at 357 Mag pressures)

That said -- and as the owner/feeder of several 44-40s and 44Mags -- The 44Mag wins hands down/running away as the One-Cartridge-Does-All.

44-40 for nostalgia, fun, and pretty good on small-game through close-in whitetail.
44 Mag when your life depends on it.

bobn · May 9, 2017, 06:26 AM

the 44 40 comes into its own in a 73 or its copies. it feeds so much better. with that action you probably should not load high pressure loads anyway. so the thin brass with its bottleneck case is a perfect match. bobn

Art Eatman · May 9, 2017, 07:39 AM

The factory loads for the .44-40 are safe in the early firearms. Colt SAA, for example. Loading toward .44 Maggie pressures could easily create a handful of scrap iron.

Might be okay in a modern-steel lever rifle.

Lot of difference between guns designed around 12,000 psi "back then" and today's 35,000 psi of the Maggie.

ligonierbill · May 9, 2017, 07:56 AM

I don't believe anyone is making a firearm chambered in 44-40 that is designed for anywhere near .44 Mag pressures. I suppose you could get, say, a custom chambered Ruger No. 1 and try it, but you would be in uncharted territory. As has been stated, the old 44 WCF is strictly a replica/cowboy action/nostalgia round. Here's some data from a couple of mine:

NEF Handi Rifle/240 XTP over max published H110/1,852 fps

Uberti copy of Winchester 1873/200 cast over Unique/1,270 fps

Now, within 100 yards, a deer probably won't know the difference. I have seen that HR put a big hole completely through a deer. The '73 isn't going to do that, but 140+ years of history says it will be lethal.

Hawg · May 9, 2017, 08:31 AM

Quote:

I don't believe anyone is making a firearm chambered in 44-40 that is designed for anywhere near .44 Mag pressures.

The Winchester 92 and clones will do it and much, much more. The 44-40 can be loaded to .44 mag pressures but the cases won't last long. The .45 Colt can be loaded above .44 mag pressures. Walmart here used to sell 44-40 but it was 45.00 bucks per 50 rounds. I have a 44-40 and like it better than .44 mag but that's just nostalgia. The .44 mag is the better cartridge but I wouldn't hesitate to make a 100 yard shot on a deer with my 44-40. I imagine the 44-40 has taken just about as many deer as the 30-30.

ligonierbill · May 9, 2017, 08:58 AM

I forgot about the '92. Indeed, there are replicas for sale chambered in .44 Mag. Ironically, I bought my first 44-40, a SAA clone, because I do load .45 Colt to high (but still published) "Ruger only" levels. I went with the .44 to eliminate the possibility of dropping one of those nuclear 45s into a pretty cowboy gun. You're still on your own, as far as I know, in loading 44-40 over spec. Or has somebody run some numbers?

T. O'Heir · May 9, 2017, 12:20 PM

OP is 7 years old.
"...loading 44-40 over spec..." You're on your own loading anything over max.

HiBC · May 9, 2017, 03:18 PM

With the exception of the 92Win,lever rifle designs that might be chambered 44-40 used the toggle link lockup.It is not as robust as the locking bars of the 92. It would be a mistake to push them.
Agreed the 44-40 has very thin case mouths. I think maybe .006.Remembering it was designed for Black Powder...IMO,the thin,soft case facilitated obturation. Gas seal. It helped to keep corrosive fouling in the barrel,not back in the more complex to clean receiver.

I never owned a 44-40,not sure,but did it use a heeled bullet? And maybe nominal bullet dia is .427? Those need verification. Not sure.

If,for some reason a person felt a need for a hotter version of a ..."similar to "
44-40 cartridge,the 45 Colt can be necked down.
I frankly messed up chambering a 92 clone in 44 magnum. I have a lot of work in the octagon barrel ,hanging the mag tube,the forend,etc. Its all custom.
The rounds were not happy "going round the corner" into the chamber.I stoned a little too much entry at the chamber mouth . It bulges the brass a bit. I don't like it.
One remedy might be a reamer similar to a 44-40,and using 45 Colt brass tapered/necked down to .430.That would clean my chamber,and the tapered case would feed easy.Thats essentially 44-40.

44 mag and 45 Colt rim dia are equivalent.

Its do-able. Its also debatable. Its just an idea. It would be best if it would not chamber in a true 44-40.
I'd want enough neck for 300 gr bullets, A bit more powder capacity might be useful with those.
I'll leave it on the back burner.No hurry.

ThomasT · May 9, 2017, 05:48 PM

Quote:

OP is 7 years old.

It must be a rite of passage for a new guy to have his first post to be a zombie thread. I can't figure it out but it sure happens a lot.

**44 AMP** · May 10, 2017, 12:53 AM

It's not a formal requirement, but a lot of folks do it.

I had the last word in this thread in Dec 2010, so I'll claim that again here, now. I'm closing this one.

RoosterJ welcome to TFL, and feel free to start a new thread on this topic.

December 20, 2010, 09:15 PM	#1
Alden Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 265	.44 magnum or .44-40? Which one is a better round? Accuracy, weight, fps, fired out of an 18 to 20 inch rifle barrel. My idea is that the .44 magnum is probably superior, given that it is a much more modern development, but I really don't know.

December 20, 2010, 09:22 PM	#2
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	44 Magnum, ammo is cheaper, and you can use 44 Special loads for low recoil shooting. The 44-40 is plenty good, but ammo cost wins in my book. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

December 20, 2010, 10:26 PM	#5
Trigger Finger Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 375	While the 44-40 is a good cartridge the 44 magnum is much more powerful. This is true if you buy the ammo. I would estimate that the 44 magnum is about two to three times more powerful. If you buy the ammo there is no comparison. If you reload you can increase the 44-40 up to much higher power levels but still not as potent as a 44 magnum. You have to carefull what you shoot the 44-40 out of, older guns can't handle very high power levels. You can reload the 44 magnum to higher power levels than you can buy or you can download the 44 mag to 44 special levels or slightly less than a 44-40. __________________ Land of the Free Because of the Brave!

December 20, 2010, 11:00 PM	#6
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	The difference is pressure, the 44 Magnum can be loaded to high pressure. The 44-40 is an older low pressure round. The 44 Magnum will push a 240 gr pill around 1,500 fps, more from a carbine. The 44-40 will push a 200 gr pill around 1,200 fps. Now, both are really pistol rounds, and any animal you shoot will not be able to tell the difference. But 44 Mag is a lot cheaper, and more common. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

December 21, 2010, 01:14 AM	#8
Trigger Finger Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 375	Iron Man, how do you like the PP Super? I have been trying to get one for quite awhile. Ammo would be a problem but these are one of the very best looking Walthers I have seen. __________________ Land of the Free Because of the Brave!

December 20, 2010, 09:29 PM	#3
Alden Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 265	Jimro, are the bullets the same weight and the velocity about the same too? I know the .44-40 has a longer case, which would lead one to believe it's faster.

December 20, 2010, 09:58 PM	#4
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Because of its straight walled case I think the 44 Magnum would be easier to reload-you can use carbide dies. Also I think the case is designed for higher pressures.

December 21, 2010, 12:41 AM	#7
Iron Man Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 346	You can buy .44 magnums at Walmart. That sells it for me. Pair that with a Colt Anaconda and you have a heck of a set. But then, I also don't own a 44-40...my three 45 long colts are expensive enough. Of course, the aforementioned logic is coming from a guy who shoots a Five-seveN and a Walther PP Super whose rounds are hard to get and impossible to get.

December 21, 2010, 07:40 AM	#9
Alden Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 265	OK, so if it's that much less powerful than the .44 mag, yet it was once the most common round used in lever guns and has taken countless deer, I'm thinking economically and practically that a .44 magnum lever gun should suite my needs perfectly. I live in Florida, I mostly just shoot at the range, but when I do hunt, I don't take long shots, ever. Really, I just never have. Is thick and brushy where I hunt, and we mostly see hogs and small deer. So, .45-70 ammo off the shelf (and you can't find that one at Walmart, where I buy most of my ammo) is about $30 for 20 rounds. .44-40 is probably about the same, I'm guessing, whereas .44 magnum is around $33 for 50. Big, big difference there.

December 21, 2010, 11:45 AM	#10
natman Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2008 Posts: 2,605	The 44-40 has a terrific history. It's the cartridge that won the west. However, aside from nostalgia, there is no advantage at all to the 44-40. The 44 mag is much more powerful, uses stronger brass, is easier to reload, the dies are carbide and components are easier to find and cheaper. Aside from that there's not much to recommend it.

December 21, 2010, 03:21 PM	#11
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	I don't own a 44-40. Handled the cases. The case walls are very thin, fired cases that I have picked up have powder dents. Since the suckers are bottle necked, I guess you have to lube them and then trim them after each reload. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

December 21, 2010, 10:37 PM	#12
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,813	Consider a few things... The .44-40 began as a black powder pistol round, launching its slug in the 900fps range. The case is a slight bottleneck, and the brass is thin. Modern ammo is loaded to pressures and velocities safe in the old black powder guns. Yes, it gains in performance when fired from a carbine, all pistol rounds do. The .44 Magnum is a modern handgun round, loaded to a much higher pressure, launching its bullets in the 1200-1600fps range, depending on weight and load. It is a straight wall case, and designed with magnum pressures in mind. Fired from a carbine, it is significantly more powerful than the .44-40 in a similar carbine, just as it is in a handgun. True enough, no animal will know the difference with a good shot, but the higher velocities of the .44 mag make it easier for the shooter to make a good shot at longer (for the class of round) ranges. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

May 9, 2017, 03:48 AM	#13
RoosterJ Junior Member Join Date: December 25, 2016 Posts: 2	I reload both the 44 mag and the 44-40. I shoot the magnum rounds in a Henry and the 44-40 rounds in a Winchester model 92. The 44-40 shells are much thinner, therefor they are not capable of holding as much pressure as the magnum round. Both use the same bullet. The older shell can be squeezed together somewhat with just your fingers/thumb. You can't do that with the magnum round. The 44-40 cost more and can only find them online.

May 9, 2017, 06:15 AM	#14
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,883	Brass does not hold pressure. The surrounding steel does. (EX: I regularly use "thin" 32-20 brass in my 30 Carbine Rugers -- at 357 Mag pressures) That said -- and as the owner/feeder of several 44-40s and 44Mags -- The 44Mag wins hands down/running away as the One-Cartridge-Does-All. 44-40 for nostalgia, fun, and pretty good on small-game through close-in whitetail. 44 Mag when your life depends on it.

May 9, 2017, 06:26 AM	#15
bobn Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2006 Location: midwest Posts: 1,105	the 44 40 comes into its own in a 73 or its copies. it feeds so much better. with that action you probably should not load high pressure loads anyway. so the thin brass with its bottleneck case is a perfect match. bobn

May 9, 2017, 07:39 AM	#16
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	The factory loads for the .44-40 are safe in the early firearms. Colt SAA, for example. Loading toward .44 Maggie pressures could easily create a handful of scrap iron. Might be okay in a modern-steel lever rifle. Lot of difference between guns designed around 12,000 psi "back then" and today's 35,000 psi of the Maggie.

May 9, 2017, 07:56 AM	#17
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,448	I don't believe anyone is making a firearm chambered in 44-40 that is designed for anywhere near .44 Mag pressures. I suppose you could get, say, a custom chambered Ruger No. 1 and try it, but you would be in uncharted territory. As has been stated, the old 44 WCF is strictly a replica/cowboy action/nostalgia round. Here's some data from a couple of mine: NEF Handi Rifle/240 XTP over max published H110/1,852 fps Uberti copy of Winchester 1873/200 cast over Unique/1,270 fps Now, within 100 yards, a deer probably won't know the difference. I have seen that HR put a big hole completely through a deer. The '73 isn't going to do that, but 140+ years of history says it will be lethal.

May 9, 2017, 08:58 AM	#19
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,448	I forgot about the '92. Indeed, there are replicas for sale chambered in .44 Mag. Ironically, I bought my first 44-40, a SAA clone, because I do load .45 Colt to high (but still published) "Ruger only" levels. I went with the .44 to eliminate the possibility of dropping one of those nuclear 45s into a pretty cowboy gun. You're still on your own, as far as I know, in loading 44-40 over spec. Or has somebody run some numbers?

May 9, 2017, 12:20 PM	#20
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	OP is 7 years old. "...loading 44-40 over spec..." You're on your own loading anything over max. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

May 9, 2017, 03:18 PM	#21
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	With the exception of the 92Win,lever rifle designs that might be chambered 44-40 used the toggle link lockup.It is not as robust as the locking bars of the 92. It would be a mistake to push them. Agreed the 44-40 has very thin case mouths. I think maybe .006.Remembering it was designed for Black Powder...IMO,the thin,soft case facilitated obturation. Gas seal. It helped to keep corrosive fouling in the barrel,not back in the more complex to clean receiver. I never owned a 44-40,not sure,but did it use a heeled bullet? And maybe nominal bullet dia is .427? Those need verification. Not sure. If,for some reason a person felt a need for a hotter version of a ..."similar to " 44-40 cartridge,the 45 Colt can be necked down. I frankly messed up chambering a 92 clone in 44 magnum. I have a lot of work in the octagon barrel ,hanging the mag tube,the forend,etc. Its all custom. The rounds were not happy "going round the corner" into the chamber.I stoned a little too much entry at the chamber mouth . It bulges the brass a bit. I don't like it. One remedy might be a reamer similar to a 44-40,and using 45 Colt brass tapered/necked down to .430.That would clean my chamber,and the tapered case would feed easy.Thats essentially 44-40. 44 mag and 45 Colt rim dia are equivalent. Its do-able. Its also debatable. Its just an idea. It would be best if it would not chamber in a true 44-40. I'd want enough neck for 300 gr bullets, A bit more powder capacity might be useful with those. I'll leave it on the back burner.No hurry. Last edited by HiBC; May 9, 2017 at 03:26 PM.

May 10, 2017, 12:53 AM	#23
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,813	It's not a formal requirement, but a lot of folks do it. I had the last word in this thread in Dec 2010, so I'll claim that again here, now. I'm closing this one. RoosterJ welcome to TFL, and feel free to start a new thread on this topic. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.