Nighthawk custom

Brutus · December 30, 2018, 09:39 AM

What in the world could make these 1911's worth $3500 bucks?

Jim Watson · December 30, 2018, 09:49 AM

What? The one I like is $4195. Not that I am fixing to BUY one, my customized Springfield was less than 1/3 the cost and does well enough for me.

KyJim · January 1, 2019, 06:59 AM

What makes a pickup truck somebody just drives to work worth $60,000?

The craftsmanship on a Nighthawk is first rate and only one gunsmith works on it. I have a NH Falcon, with some custom touches --- trigger, sights, & grips. I love it. Kids are grown and I wanted a bit of a luxury item. BTW, I drive a KIA and am perfectly satisfied with it.

Can I logically justify the cost of my Nighthawk? No. Can someone who commutes to work in a $60,000 truck logically justify it? No.

WC145 · January 1, 2019, 10:06 AM

What makes Guncrafters, Wilsons, Browns, Cabots, Baers, etc, worth what they sell for? Craftsmanship, component quality, fit, finish, attention to detail, accuracy, reliability- all of these things come to mind. Same for Nighthawk.

Joe_Pike · January 1, 2019, 12:02 PM

Bragging rights. Nothing wrong with that either, but the law of diminishing returns comes into play pretty quick with firearms in my opinion. I don't think you get much in the way of performance after a certain price point, but you certainly can get a prettier pistol.

bac1023 · January 1, 2019, 12:38 PM

Quote:

What in the world could make these 1911's worth $3500 bucks?

Parts quality, fit and finish, durability, etc. Its not rocket science.

There are dozens of high end 1911 builders. They sell many thousands of them every year. I've owned several dozen and still have quite a few.

hornet · January 27, 2019, 06:21 PM

I love to outshoot those +2500 dollar guns with my $649 Colt

best
jr

DPris · January 27, 2019, 07:02 PM

Unless it's got 3 ounces of solid gold built into it- nothing.
Denis

Brutus · January 27, 2019, 07:03 PM

Know a guy at work who claims he does the same thing with a .45 High Point. Of course he does the same thing on the trap & skeet range and nobody want's to hunt with him because he shoots all the pheasants, ducks, deer and grizzly bears before any one else has a chance. I don't doubt your word I just want to know where you got a Colt for 650 bucks.

laytonj1 · January 27, 2019, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hornet

I love to outshoot those +2500 dollar guns with my $649 Colt

best
jr

You’re not outshooting a $2500+ gun, you’re outshooting the user of that $2500+ gun...
Big difference.

Jim

Joe_Pike · January 27, 2019, 11:37 PM

Quote:

I don't doubt your word I just want to know where you got a Colt for 650 bucks.

I've got three Colt 1911's (and I bought two of them new) and the most I've paid for any of them is $679. You just have to be patient.

JDBerg · January 28, 2019, 12:42 AM

I see guys at the LGRs with their big buck Wilsons, Les Baers, Ed Browns, etc., etc., and their targets look like swiss cheese. I bought my Dan Wesson Valor used for under $1,200.00 and it shoots great when I’m doing my part to shoot well.

claydoctor · January 28, 2019, 02:02 PM

I'm a big fan of Dan Wesson and have a few of the others mentioned but I can tell you that each of my Ed Browns shoot like they are on autopilot.

Lohman446 · January 28, 2019, 02:05 PM

Look at high end Swedish forged axes once if you want to be surprised at what something can cost.

stephen426 · January 28, 2019, 03:37 PM

There is no doubt that a well made gun can shoot better than something slapped together off a production line with no custom fitting. How much more you are willing to pay for a well made, semi-custom gun is up to you and your budget.

There are people who have the money but not the skill, and that translates across multiple areas. There are plenty of high end cars driven with people who have no clue what they are doing. People in moderately priced sports cars can usually smoke those guys. You put the same skilled driver behind the wheel of a super car and watch the lap times drop. A Honda Civic can be stripped out, tuned, and boosted to compete with much more expensive cars. The same applies to taking a cheaper gun and putting match grade parts. The sum of the parts may indeed make significant improvements in performance, but having a nice complete package is hard to beat.

As for the price of high end things compared to functional, albeit more pedestrian, things, nothing beats watches. A cheapy digital watch will keep time better than just about any high-end mechanical/automatic watch. How many of us carry smart phones that update the time for us automatically? I don't know of a single feature on any grand complication watch that a phone can't do.

While not as absurd as watches, custom knives also command a hefty price. I know it is based on what you can afford, but paying a couple thousand bucks for a knife makes no sense in my opinion. There are so many custom knife makers out there that I doubt any knife is really that collectible. The other issue with knives is using them can easily scratch a mirror polished blade. Any hard use will easily take a chunk out of the value. I do have a couple of "pretty" knives that I don't carry, but I certainly am not plunking down a few thousand bucks on a knife.

Fishbed77 · January 28, 2019, 04:27 PM

Quote:

What in the world could make these 1911's worth $3500 bucks?

Apparently it's what the market will bear.

spacemanspiff · January 28, 2019, 04:57 PM

If you can find a garage gunsmith who can produce a pistol with similar craftsmanship for a fraction of that price, by all means, go ahead and solicit that garage gunsmith.

lantern2814 · January 28, 2019, 05:33 PM

At the end of the day it is NOT what the gun IS worth. It is what it is worth to you....or the potential buyer.

You hear words like quality and craftsmanship thrown around, but in the end they are just buzz words to help sell after passing a certain dollar amount as machines have made things relatively easy to put out an amazingly accurate and beautiful gun.

These shops don't put out a lot of units and lots of folks want them. It's just like any other limited thing. Muscle cars, vintage toys, comic sculptures. They are only worth what the person buying them thinks they are worth.

Me? I know exactly which 1911 I'm getting next and it, unfortunately, costs more than $3500. So, I'll have to wait a bit.

TunnelRat · January 28, 2019, 05:53 PM

Value is relative.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

BarryLee · January 28, 2019, 10:25 PM

A few years ago I had the ability to buy a Wilson 1911. I own shall we say several guns and I am a decent shot with most of them. However, the Wilson is by far the most accurate of all my guns. I know you may think I'm just saying that to justify the cost, but for whatever reason it is the best shooting gun I've ever shot. Now, having said that, is it three or four times better than my $895 Colt Competition Pistol - probably not. At the end of the day you buy a high end gun, mechanical swiss watch, fountain pen, Gucci Loafer or whatever simply because you want them and if it brings you pleasure what others think doesn't matter.

rock185 · January 30, 2019, 02:57 AM

"Worth" is "in the eye of the beholder" so to speak. The more expensive guns generally have better fit, finish, component parts, triggers, etc. And then there's that pride of ownership thing. Is the expensive gun several times more reliable and accurate than a good production gun. Probably not. For example, I bought a new Rolex 30 plus years ago. Have enjoyed wearing most it every day. Due to my line of work, it got scuffed up a bit over that time. Cost more to overhaul 3-4 years ago than I originally paid for the watch. Is it several times more reliable and accurate than a cheap Chinese digital, or your smart phone? Probably not. Still don't regret my purchase.

BTW, Bought a Swiss pistol or two along the way too. I know, I know, your cousin's uncle's buddy's friend, who works in an actual gun shop, says Hi Points are more accurate. Especially those accurized by that guy he knows who works out of his garage

stagpanther · January 30, 2019, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Can someone who commutes to work in a $60,000 truck logically justify it? No.

Can't speak for other states--but here in Maine it sure is justifiable if you work year-round.

RickB · January 30, 2019, 08:51 AM

Say it takes five hours to build the gun.
There are literally tens of thousands of attorneys in this country who will charge you $400 an hour to provide quality work, but there may not be even 100 pistolsmiths who can do the very best work; you wouldn't pay the latter $400 an hour to build the gun upon which your life may depend?

TunnelRat · January 30, 2019, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickB

Say it takes five hours to build the gun.

There are literally tens of thousands of attorneys in this country who will charge you $400 an hour to provide quality work, but there may not be even 100 pistolsmiths who can do the very best work; you wouldn't pay the latter $400 an hour to build the gun upon which your life may depend?

If I was convinced that only with that $400 an hr smith I could get a firearm that I can trust my life to then sure, but I'm not.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Lohman446 · January 30, 2019, 09:15 AM

Quote:

There are literally tens of thousands of attorneys in this country who will charge you $400 an hour to provide quality work, but there may not be even 100 pistolsmiths who can do the very best work; you wouldn't pay the latter $400 an hour to build the gun upon which your life may depend?

Attorneys and doctors effectively us a guild system under the guise of a industry controlled licensing system backed by the power of the law (practicing law / medicine without a license) to artificially limit the number of practitioners. Because they are operating outside of the free market it is unreasonable to use their charges and wages as a comparison for the rest of us that work within the free market or where government (or other) administered competency tests with no consideration of the supply and demand equation are used to determine qualification. When the various BAR associations and the AMA quit using supply and demand as part of their equation when issuing licensing to artificially limit the number of qualified people and influence the market rates you may have a valid comparison. Besides when i NEED an attorney (or a doctor) I NEED one. A pistol, given waiting periods and various other things, is almost always a purchase for future need or luxury. Further as a pistol is an item a pistol smiths work that was done ten years ago holds value and can be "reapplied" to a need today (I can buy a used pistol). This means that every time Nighthawk makes a new item they actual increase the supply side. When an attorney sells an hour that hour is gone and cannot be resold by the recipient.

Not a solid comparison.

December 30, 2018, 09:39 AM	#1
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	Nighthawk custom What in the world could make these 1911's worth $3500 bucks? __________________ Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak out, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen, Winston Churchill.

January 1, 2019, 10:06 AM	#4
WC145 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2008 Location: Downeast Maine Posts: 1,836	What makes Guncrafters, Wilsons, Browns, Cabots, Baers, etc, worth what they sell for? Craftsmanship, component quality, fit, finish, attention to detail, accuracy, reliability- all of these things come to mind. Same for Nighthawk. __________________ "If violent crime is to be curbed, it is only the intended victim who can do it. The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge or jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - LtCol Jeff Cooper

January 1, 2019, 12:02 PM	#5
Joe_Pike Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2010 Posts: 1,581	Bragging rights. Nothing wrong with that either, but the law of diminishing returns comes into play pretty quick with firearms in my opinion. I don't think you get much in the way of performance after a certain price point, but you certainly can get a prettier pistol. __________________ Stay Groovy

January 27, 2019, 07:03 PM	#9
Brutus Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Posts: 1,023	Know a guy at work who claims he does the same thing with a .45 High Point. Of course he does the same thing on the trap & skeet range and nobody want's to hunt with him because he shoots all the pheasants, ducks, deer and grizzly bears before any one else has a chance. I don't doubt your word I just want to know where you got a Colt for 650 bucks. __________________ Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak out, Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen, Winston Churchill.

January 28, 2019, 12:42 AM	#12
JDBerg Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2015 Location: PA Posts: 1,835	I see guys at the LGRs with their big buck Wilsons, Les Baers, Ed Browns, etc., etc., and their targets look like swiss cheese. I bought my Dan Wesson Valor used for under $1,200.00 and it shoots great when I’m doing my part to shoot well. __________________ Words to Live By: Before You Pray - Believe; Before You Speak - Listen; Before You Spend - Earn; Before You Write - Think; Before You Quit - Try; Before You Die - Live

December 30, 2018, 09:49 AM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	What? The one I like is $4195. Not that I am fixing to BUY one, my customized Springfield was less than 1/3 the cost and does well enough for me.

January 1, 2019, 06:59 AM	#3
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	What makes a pickup truck somebody just drives to work worth $60,000? The craftsmanship on a Nighthawk is first rate and only one gunsmith works on it. I have a NH Falcon, with some custom touches --- trigger, sights, & grips. I love it. Kids are grown and I wanted a bit of a luxury item. BTW, I drive a KIA and am perfectly satisfied with it. Can I logically justify the cost of my Nighthawk? No. Can someone who commutes to work in a $60,000 truck logically justify it? No.

January 27, 2019, 06:21 PM	#7
hornet Junior Member Join Date: July 14, 2001 Location: midwest Posts: 14	I love to outshoot those +2500 dollar guns with my $649 Colt best jr

January 27, 2019, 07:02 PM	#8
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Unless it's got 3 ounces of solid gold built into it- nothing. Denis

January 28, 2019, 02:02 PM	#13
claydoctor Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 450	I'm a big fan of Dan Wesson and have a few of the others mentioned but I can tell you that each of my Ed Browns shoot like they are on autopilot.

January 28, 2019, 02:05 PM	#14
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	Look at high end Swedish forged axes once if you want to be surprised at what something can cost. __________________ A coward believes he will ever live if he keep him safe from strife: but old age leaves him not long in peace though spears may spare his life. - The Havamal (Bray translation)

January 28, 2019, 03:37 PM	#15
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,840	There is no doubt that a well made gun can shoot better than something slapped together off a production line with no custom fitting. How much more you are willing to pay for a well made, semi-custom gun is up to you and your budget. There are people who have the money but not the skill, and that translates across multiple areas. There are plenty of high end cars driven with people who have no clue what they are doing. People in moderately priced sports cars can usually smoke those guys. You put the same skilled driver behind the wheel of a super car and watch the lap times drop. A Honda Civic can be stripped out, tuned, and boosted to compete with much more expensive cars. The same applies to taking a cheaper gun and putting match grade parts. The sum of the parts may indeed make significant improvements in performance, but having a nice complete package is hard to beat. As for the price of high end things compared to functional, albeit more pedestrian, things, nothing beats watches. A cheapy digital watch will keep time better than just about any high-end mechanical/automatic watch. How many of us carry smart phones that update the time for us automatically? I don't know of a single feature on any grand complication watch that a phone can't do. While not as absurd as watches, custom knives also command a hefty price. I know it is based on what you can afford, but paying a couple thousand bucks for a knife makes no sense in my opinion. There are so many custom knife makers out there that I doubt any knife is really that collectible. The other issue with knives is using them can easily scratch a mirror polished blade. Any hard use will easily take a chunk out of the value. I do have a couple of "pretty" knives that I don't carry, but I certainly am not plunking down a few thousand bucks on a knife. __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!

January 28, 2019, 04:57 PM	#17
spacemanspiff Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2002 Location: alaska Posts: 3,498	If you can find a garage gunsmith who can produce a pistol with similar craftsmanship for a fraction of that price, by all means, go ahead and solicit that garage gunsmith. __________________ "Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard

January 28, 2019, 05:33 PM	#18
lantern2814 Member Join Date: April 26, 2013 Posts: 42	At the end of the day it is NOT what the gun IS worth. It is what it is worth to you....or the potential buyer. You hear words like quality and craftsmanship thrown around, but in the end they are just buzz words to help sell after passing a certain dollar amount as machines have made things relatively easy to put out an amazingly accurate and beautiful gun. These shops don't put out a lot of units and lots of folks want them. It's just like any other limited thing. Muscle cars, vintage toys, comic sculptures. They are only worth what the person buying them thinks they are worth. Me? I know exactly which 1911 I'm getting next and it, unfortunately, costs more than $3500. So, I'll have to wait a bit.

January 28, 2019, 05:53 PM	#19
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	Value is relative. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

January 28, 2019, 10:25 PM	#20
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	A few years ago I had the ability to buy a Wilson 1911. I own shall we say several guns and I am a decent shot with most of them. However, the Wilson is by far the most accurate of all my guns. I know you may think I'm just saying that to justify the cost, but for whatever reason it is the best shooting gun I've ever shot. Now, having said that, is it three or four times better than my $895 Colt Competition Pistol - probably not. At the end of the day you buy a high end gun, mechanical swiss watch, fountain pen, Gucci Loafer or whatever simply because you want them and if it brings you pleasure what others think doesn't matter. __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

January 30, 2019, 02:57 AM	#21
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,093	"Worth" is "in the eye of the beholder" so to speak. The more expensive guns generally have better fit, finish, component parts, triggers, etc. And then there's that pride of ownership thing. Is the expensive gun several times more reliable and accurate than a good production gun. Probably not. For example, I bought a new Rolex 30 plus years ago. Have enjoyed wearing most it every day. Due to my line of work, it got scuffed up a bit over that time. Cost more to overhaul 3-4 years ago than I originally paid for the watch. Is it several times more reliable and accurate than a cheap Chinese digital, or your smart phone? Probably not. Still don't regret my purchase. BTW, Bought a Swiss pistol or two along the way too. I know, I know, your cousin's uncle's buddy's friend, who works in an actual gun shop, says Hi Points are more accurate. Especially those accurized by that guy he knows who works out of his garage __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

January 30, 2019, 08:51 AM	#23
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Say it takes five hours to build the gun. There are literally tens of thousands of attorneys in this country who will charge you $400 an hour to provide quality work, but there may not be even 100 pistolsmiths who can do the very best work; you wouldn't pay the latter $400 an hour to build the gun upon which your life may depend? __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.