Big bore AR

[trooper3385]

So what would you all recommend for a big bore AR. I’m having a hard time deciding between the 450 BM, 458 SOCOM, and the 50 Beowulf. I’m set up to reload and did quite bit of reloading in the past but not much here lately. So I want to stick with one of these 3, and not a wildcat. I’m live in Texas so the straight wall doesn’t give me much of an advantage as far as using it for hunting. I’ve been leaning towards the 458, but the ammo prices is quite a bit more. I’ve read a lot of the comparisons between the 450 and the 458 as far as pistol bullets vs rifle bullets, magazines, availability, etc. I haven found as much info on the Beowulf. So, let me hear what you all suggest if you have any experience with any of these. Thanks

[MarkCO]

Sounds like you understand the basic differences. I picked the .450BM and would do so again.

[JeepHammer]

If you intend on reloading, check COMMON bullet prices!

.452 diameter bullets, opposed to .458 diameter bullets opposed to .500 diameter bullets.
If you shoot this thing very much, ammo cost (factory loaded or hand loads) will mount up if you can't reload with components common in your area...

While Hornady XTP in .452 diameter runs about $25-$28/50 ct.
.500 runs twice that much or more for just the bullets, $50-$55 last time I bought some.

While Hornady XTP in .452 diameter runs about $25-$28/50 ct.
.458 diameter runs $40-$44/50 ct. last time I bought some.

If you are going to shoot this thing very much, My choice would be the .450 Bushmaster simply for the reload ammo/bullet savings alone!
If you don't intend to reload, you are at the mercy of WHEN manufacturers make this ammo, and the cost the hoarders get for it when it's out of production.

(new manufacture for an ammo company) I made a crap load of .458 Socom brass a while back, a pain to make and it doesn't reload very many times, no matter who made the brass.

[FrankenMauser]

Do you like having load data?
Do you like violent, predictable expansion?
Go for the .450 BM.

Do you prefer dabbling in no man's land and making stuff up as you go along?
Do you prefer - with a few exceptions - tough bullets that hardly expand, but penetrate like crazy?
Go for .458 SOCOM.

Or do you just need the biggest caliber you can get in an AR-15?
Beowulf, of course.


I went for the SOCOM. The Beowulf didn't appeal to me, and I didn't want to be dealing with cartridges head spacing on the case mouth, or handgun bullets.

It was good. I'd still have it. But...

... I built a .475 Tremor (.458 SOCOM necked up), in order to get into a class of handgun bullets designed to work within the velocity window where the SOCOM operates. Zero load data available. Expensive custom dies. And, back to handgun bullets (with rifle bullet super-penetration options available but stupid-expensive). ...But I'm still head spacing on the shoulder.

[Model12Win]

Get a SAIGA 12 w 32 round drum and run Brennekes.

Is a .73 cal automatic with 32 bullet clip enough? Better than any AR and have proven indistructable Russian Kalashnikov design behind it. Like AKs they won't jam up on you like an AR can.

[gshayd]

You also have the 375 SOCOM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc6Pl9-Ioa0

[stagpanther]

Hands down beyond a shadow of a doubt--458 socom:

advantage bottleneck case
advantage rifle bullets
advantage many years of perfection by Teppo Jetsu
advantage superior Tromix components readily available

Just my unbiased opinion.

[fourbore]

I choose the 458 socom for good case design and max performance versatility. I think I was right at the time. I reload, no special problem there. I would think a little easier than the BM that head space on the edge of the case. All that stuff posted by stepganger in IMHO 100% spot on.

Guess what? It does not matter. The 260 rem and 6mm rem maybe the greatest ctg in class. It does not matter. Now, today, I can go buy 450 BM Remington or Hornady ammo at the small LGS near me. Thanks to Ruger and states like Michigan and others the BM won the war. You just never know.

To make it worse the 458 is all caught up in inventor ego and business/profit models that just killed any chance the socum will ever go main stream. That was before. Today it is just a foot note in a does not matter situation.

Carrot BM, stick socom.

Edit - One surprise, I dont see any low price upper assembly for the 450BM. This must be a very very small market. I see ruger bolt rifles every where for $400 and change. Can you imagine if ruger did a 450 AR!! You would think, now the war was over, there might be a few. Or for more in the middle price, Rock River only lists a 458. Like Jose Wales still fighting the civil war?

[stagpanther]

That ruger American in 450 BM is a fabulous woods hunter--if I didn't already have the 458 socom I would get one in a heartbeat--might still anyway.

[sevt_chevelle]

Am building a 450 bushmaster. My state of Iowa has been a muzzle loader, shotgun only state until last year when they decided to allow rifles that fired a straight walled cartridge. I went with the 450 because, its cheaper and easier to find, the bullet selection is fair greater then the Beowulf and because of the Ruger American 450 the round is becoming popular.

There are quite a few guys on the 450 site that use 230 fmj bullets for plinking rounds that run right at 2200-2300 fps. The Hornady 240 ftx and 240/250 MAG xtp have no problem running the velocity that the 450 pushes them.

[Rembrandt]

I too am from Iowa and went with the 450 Bushmaster on a AR platform. Main reason was to meet straight wall requirements for deer hunting. The thing is very accurate and ammo is readily available.

[trooper3385]

I see the 450 definetly having the advantage in states that allow straight wall cartridges. Fortunately I live in Texas and can shoot whatever. I was thinking about getting the reloading dies for the socom and reloading my own to save on ammo prices, but looking at the cost of the bullets, there is not much of a cost savings on it. Looks like anywhere from $45 to $60 per box of 50 bullets, then add in your brass and powder costs. I found the ammo online for anywhere from $45 to $65 per box. The 450 BM and the 50 run around $24 to $30, but it’s a pretty limited selection of ammunition. The socom has the advantage on ammo selection, but then u get double tapped on the price of it. Anyone have any experience with the Beowulf? I haven’t found near as much info on that one online.

[105kw]

I bought an Alexander Arms .50 Beowulf in 2013. I love it.

After some research , I found Alexander always had ammo, in multiple bullet weights, whenever I ordered
I've used 335gr- 500gr Hornady bullets with good accuracy, and reliable feeding.

At least 2 people who shot mine, have told me they ordered there own.
Very few guns are as fun as a Beowulf, I've carried it deer hunting for 2 seasons but haven't had the luck to be in the right place at the right time.

My vote is for the Beowulf, fun and functional.
Got to love a .500 slug.

[FrankenMauser]

Originally Posted by trooper3385

I see the 450 definetly having the advantage in states that allow straight wall cartridges. Fortunately I live in Texas and can shoot whatever. I was thinking about getting the reloading dies for the socom and reloading my own to save on ammo prices, but looking at the cost of the bullets, there is not much of a cost savings on it. Looks like anywhere from $45 to $60 per box of 50 bullets, then add in your brass and powder costs. I found the ammo online for anywhere from $45 to $65 per box.

What bullets are you looking at? Depleted uranium dipped in the tears of Iranian virgins?

If you could make a one or two dollar bill eject with the spent case for each pull of the trigger, would it be worth it to you?
...'Cause that's essentially what happens when you handload for .458 SOCOM, versus buying factory ammo.

If you want the 'premium' bullets, then you pay premium prices.
But you don't have to shoot the Barnes TTSX, or Hornady DGS SP, or Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator, or Lehigh Controlled Fracturing SS.

Hornady HPs, Hornady FTXs, Nosler BTs, Hornady Interlocks, Remington 405s, and more... all work plenty good.
The Hornady 325 gr FTX and Remington 405 gr RN (the latter admittedly currently difficult to get) are the go-to bullets for .458 SOCOM beginners. They're cheap. They work. They're not finicky. And there's more load data available for those two bullets than anything else.

Yes, the handloaded ammunition is still expensive when compared to some other cartridges. But it's still far cheaper than factory.
Most of the .458 SOCOM handloads that I had, with good bullets, work out to between $10 and $13 per box (20) at current prices .
Comparable factory ammo is now about $45 / box (used to be more like $90-130 / box).
That's a savings of MORE THAN $30 per box; or the monetary representation of two more boxes of handloads for the price of one box of factory ammo.

For me, personally, things are a bit different now that I'm working with the .475 Tremor and even more expensive bullets. But it's not too far off.
Even my current load with Xtreme Penetrators costs me less than $19 / box ($18.66, or something like that). There is no factory ammo for the cartridge, but even when compared to .458 SOCOM that would still provide substantial savings -- and it is still massively cheaper than .450 BM loaded with the .452" Xtreme Penetrator ($60).


The joke with my brother's .458 SOCOM (formerly mine) and my .475 Tremor are that each trigger pull costs $1. It's not true, as the majority of loads are cheaper than $20/box. But it's a helluva lot better than $2 or $3 per trigger pull with comparable factory ammo.

[105kw]

Loading data for the Beowulf is out there on line.
New Hornady reloading manual has a good section of Beowulf data too.

The 50 is a straight case, and not difficult to reload for, even for a klutz like me.

Basically it's a .50-70 in a modern case, semi auto format.
Got to love big bullets at moderate velocity.

Getting hits on the 200 and 300 yard gongs are easy with practice.
Mine carbine is the 16" presicion model with up graded stock and muzzle brake.
Loaded weight about 8lbs with an optic sight.
Recoil about like a light weight .308.

[trooper3385]

Well I might be leaning towards the 450 BM now. I just found out my agency has a Remington rep and we can order thru their friends and family discount. That knocks it down to $13.50 per box or $135 for a case of 200. I’m not sure I could reload them for that price. Hopefully the gun will like that ammo.

[stagpanther]

For an AR--IMO the socom is the superior versatility flavor of the three if you reload, but they are all pretty close ballistically speaking. My socom has never had a factory made cartridge go through it--and it has never had a single hickup delivering a punishing bullet to the target accurately. The only drawback IMO is that the bullet impact holes are so big even a single-hole cloverleaf group can still be over MOA!

[trooper3385]

I agree. I was pretty set on the 458 SOCOM also. Like you said though, ballistically speaking they are all real close. The advantage goes to the SOCOM with the choice of bullets available and the bottleneck cartridge and no mag modifications. I have a ton of 20 and 30 round AR mags and changing out the followers on a few is pretty cheap and easy. But I think I will like the $13.50 for a box of ammo better.

[stagpanther]

But I think I will like the $13.50 for a box of ammo better.

Maybe, but probably not--diminishing returns from cheap ammo when shooting out of an expensive and accurate weapon. What's an extra .50 when you want maximum performance? Remington ammo and brass is usually at the bottom of my list when considering factory ammo or components--with the only exception being their golden saber bullets.

[fourbore]

Well, 90% of most shooting is practice or plinking. That Remington ammo is just the ticket. And, some people do not enjoy the relaoding process. The so-called savings or cost per round never factor in the time and seldom account for equipment. I am now looking at neck tension and electricity for my 6.5, the equipment never ends. And more time for performance.

I never saw anything remotely close to $13 a box for 450BM. I wont reload Remington brass. But at $13 a box, I would take a case just to shoot it up. I do have the Ruger American 450 to keep fed. I hand load the 458 and I do not waste my valuable time on the 450BM. If an when I ever see 450 upper reliever at mass production prices I will grap one to swap on/off with my big bore lower. That lower has purpose selected stock.

I will never let my 458 socom go, it is, for me, a special gun. But; I am hard press to recommend this to some one else.

[stagpanther]

To each their own. I still think the 458 is the better selection overall--but they are all very close--especially if you don't reload. None of em "are your granfather's 5.56 AR." I definitely wouldn't base my decision on remington ammo!

[fourbore]

I agree with that, you and I are 100% in agreement for performance, loading and ctg design. Unfortunately, 'best' does not count for much in in the cartridge wars.

[FshHead]

I went with the 458 several years ago. Picked it over the others because it was, well, different. I liked the idea of 45-70 ballistics in the AR15 rather than the AR10 platform.

I also reload, this was the real kicker. I can reload ammo, EXCELLENT AMMO!, for no where near the $3 per trigger pull price. I live 15 minutes from Grafs Reloading Super Center, work 15 minutes from Midway USA, and am with easy driving distance of both Sierra bullets and Starline Brass.

Using all this allows me to load excellent deer or plinking rounds for ~$40-55 cents each! That is hard to beat and just a whole boatload of fun!

All that said, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the big bore ARs. My thought has always been, buy what you like and don't worry if someone else likes something different.

[the possum]

I've got no dog in this fight, but often times the gears in my head start turnin' for no apparent reason. If I were gonna get a thumper AR, I'd go with the .450 Bushmaster.

For starters, I already reload .454 Casull (& a couple other .452 rounds), and could share some of the bullets & components I already have on hand.

These bullets are cheaper than .458 bullets. Usually by a lot. Meaning I could shoot and practice with the .450 BM twice as much. Quick rough calculations with XTP bullets would be around $0.40 per round. Cut that down to a quarter apiece for plinking rounds using cheap pistol bullets (coated cast or maybe plated, surplus FMJ, etc.) Is there anything commonly available to stick in a .458 Socom case and still end up around a quarter per shot? Again, since I'm a cheapskate, getting to practice with the gun 4 times more often is worth more than the actual dollars saved.

I've seen factory ammo for the .450 Bushmaster on lots of local shelves. Never seen a .458 Socom or .50 Beowulf round in person yet.

Right now in Illinois, we cannot use centerfire rifles of any kind for deer. But the laws have been loosening quite a bit over the past decade, and I think there's a good chance we might go the way of our neighbor Indiana at some point in the future.

[stagpanther]

Something else to think about--rifle bullet vs pistol bullet.