GP100 vs 686 - Page 3

Real Gun · April 27, 2018, 08:48 AM

The problem in general may be reliance on purchased bullets. It is not so simple as just being an expert on customizing bullets. You can't just imply that a person is inadequate as a reloader because leading problems are encountered. That patronizing from bullet casters gets old. When a gun has mechanical issues, there isn't necessarily a magic bullet to make it right.

Then there is this from DPris:

Quote:

The new Smith uses an electro-chemical rifling that doesn't always work well with lead. The Ruger still uses conventional rifling methods.

It is not correct to pronounce the type of rifling irrelevant. I have a $1000 625 PC bought to replace a 625JM, because the Performance Center version has cut rifling and works fine with lead, while the 625JM was a nightmare.

dahermit · April 27, 2018, 11:15 AM

Quote:

The problem in general may be reliance on purchased bullets. It is not so simple as just being an expert on customizing bullets. You can't just imply that a person is inadequate as a reloader because leading problems are encountered. That patronizing from bullet casters gets old. When a gun has mechanical issues, there isn't necessarily a magic bullet to make it right.

A competent, skilled bullet caster can diagnose a leading problem and correct the issue. If you do not like to be patronized, work on obtaining the requisite skills (it is not rocket science) involving your chosen hobby or buy jacketed bullets and stop casting aspersions on those of us who have.

FrankenMauser · April 27, 2018, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahermit

A competent, skilled bullet caster can diagnose a leading problem and correct the issue. If you do not like to be patronized, work on obtaining the requisite skills (it is not rocket science) involving your chosen hobby or buy jacketed bullets and stop casting aspersions on those of us who have.

I don't think the under-handed insults are necessary.

Nor do I think you are correct.
Barrel leading can not always be solved by tweaking alloys, trying every lube under the sun, adding gas checks, changing bullet diameter, or lapping the barrel.
Some barrels just don't get along with lead.

DPris · April 27, 2018, 12:28 PM

The rifling in the 686 has been noted by numerous shooters over a period of several years to not deal well with lead.

It's the rifling, it's not a matter of searching for the right bullet/lube combination.
Denis

Drm50 · April 27, 2018, 05:48 PM

I have had GPs & 586s ( don't do SS guns) I will have to say I liked the 586 better. The S&W is a lot smoother action. I'll have to throw this in, I like a S&W m19 better than
either one. It has slickness of S&W without the extra wieght. The S&W m27 is a fine 357
but is to heavy and bulky to pack around. M28 is same way. If I am going to carry a gun
that big it might as well be 44 or 45.

Guv · April 28, 2018, 09:08 AM

I have 2 recent production 642's and 1 637 that get mostly 100% lead shot through them. Never a issue, maybe the lower velocity is playing a role here?

Real Gun · April 28, 2018, 09:55 AM

Quote:

I have 2 recent production 642's and 1 637 that get mostly 100% lead shot through them. Never a issue, maybe the lower velocity is playing a role here?

Or lower pressure.

buck460XVR · April 28, 2018, 01:20 PM

S&W has been using the new style rifling in most of their revolver barrels larger than .22 caliber since 1993, I believe. While it does not appear to be a well as defined as older "broach" cut rifling, it is more precise, more consistent from barrel to barrel and results in less stress on the barrel itself. The tools used last a long time and can do the rifling in a much shorter length of time than older more traditional methods. This makes it much more effective for mass produced firearms. The tools and the process itself tho, is very expensive. Because of the precision, accuracy is as good if not better than older styles of rifling. My newer Smiths outshoot my older ones in every case....that is with jacketed bullets. I shoot very little lead. While some folks see more leading with the ECM rifling, just as many do not. I believe that it may be because the ECM barrels are just more finicky as to fit. Could also be because the throats do not match the bore. That said, the difference between S&Ws and Rugers is more of a preference, and to a certain extent, brand loyalty. Used to be Rugers were considerably less to buy new.....that is not the case anymore, altho it is still true on the used market.....from my experience. Like women, some guys like a them with a little meat on their bones and some like 'em more petite. Neither is right or wrong, just preference.

Real Gun · April 28, 2018, 05:39 PM

I have sold 6 of my 7 modern S&W guns because of leading and because they weren't assigned to CCW with jacketed ammo. I still believe the story is told by the rifling difference between the 625JM and the 625PC, the latter of which I just shot again this afternoon.

INMY01TA · May 6, 2018, 06:45 PM

Love my 686. Lock? What lock?

WyMark · May 6, 2018, 09:27 PM

I asked the same question a year and a half ago, except I was looking for blued, so it was GP100 vs 586. https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=581268

I bought the 4" GP100 and have no regrets at all. I replace the front ramp with the Ruger red ramp http://shopruger.com/Ruger-GP100-Red...uctinfo/90074/, but from what I understand Ruger has done away with the drop-in front sight. Also put these grips on it http://shopruger.com/Rubber-Grip-w_-...uctinfo/70083/

Cosmodragoon · May 8, 2018, 04:31 AM

Both are good and it depends on the actual model. One thing I like about the 686 is the ability to wear those cushy X-frame grips. It makes for the most comfortable .357 magnum shooting possible. One thing I hate about the modern 686 is that ugly lock hole in the side. It isn't just a totally unnecessary component that could possibly fail and lock the gun in a time of need. It is a feature that only exists at the coercive behest of the Clinton Administration and an organized anti-gun movement that is still waging a very real war on our rights in every city and state in the nation. I'd rather not have a constant visual reminder of that in such a prominent location.

(Yeah, the warning stamps on the Ruger are bad but not as bad. At least they've been moved to a less prominent location on new guns.)

April 28, 2018, 09:08 AM	#56
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	I have 2 recent production 642's and 1 637 that get mostly 100% lead shot through them. Never a issue, maybe the lower velocity is playing a role here? __________________ Walnut and Gloss Blue, mostly!

April 28, 2018, 05:39 PM	#59
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	I have sold 6 of my 7 modern S&W guns because of leading and because they weren't assigned to CCW with jacketed ammo. I still believe the story is told by the rifling difference between the 625JM and the 625PC, the latter of which I just shot again this afternoon. __________________ Not an expert, just a reporter.

April 27, 2018, 12:28 PM	#54
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	The rifling in the 686 has been noted by numerous shooters over a period of several years to not deal well with lead. It's the rifling, it's not a matter of searching for the right bullet/lube combination. Denis

April 27, 2018, 05:48 PM	#55
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,380	I have had GPs & 586s ( don't do SS guns) I will have to say I liked the 586 better. The S&W is a lot smoother action. I'll have to throw this in, I like a S&W m19 better than either one. It has slickness of S&W without the extra wieght. The S&W m27 is a fine 357 but is to heavy and bulky to pack around. M28 is same way. If I am going to carry a gun that big it might as well be 44 or 45.

April 28, 2018, 01:20 PM	#58
buck460XVR Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2006 Posts: 4,342	S&W has been using the new style rifling in most of their revolver barrels larger than .22 caliber since 1993, I believe. While it does not appear to be a well as defined as older "broach" cut rifling, it is more precise, more consistent from barrel to barrel and results in less stress on the barrel itself. The tools used last a long time and can do the rifling in a much shorter length of time than older more traditional methods. This makes it much more effective for mass produced firearms. The tools and the process itself tho, is very expensive. Because of the precision, accuracy is as good if not better than older styles of rifling. My newer Smiths outshoot my older ones in every case....that is with jacketed bullets. I shoot very little lead. While some folks see more leading with the ECM rifling, just as many do not. I believe that it may be because the ECM barrels are just more finicky as to fit. Could also be because the throats do not match the bore. That said, the difference between S&Ws and Rugers is more of a preference, and to a certain extent, brand loyalty. Used to be Rugers were considerably less to buy new.....that is not the case anymore, altho it is still true on the used market.....from my experience. Like women, some guys like a them with a little meat on their bones and some like 'em more petite. Neither is right or wrong, just preference.

May 6, 2018, 06:45 PM	#60
INMY01TA Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2008 Location: Marylandistan Posts: 262	Love my 686. Lock? What lock?

May 6, 2018, 09:27 PM	#61
WyMark Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Wyoming Posts: 647	I asked the same question a year and a half ago, except I was looking for blued, so it was GP100 vs 586. https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=581268 I bought the 4" GP100 and have no regrets at all. I replace the front ramp with the Ruger red ramp http://shopruger.com/Ruger-GP100-Red...uctinfo/90074/, but from what I understand Ruger has done away with the drop-in front sight. Also put these grips on it http://shopruger.com/Rubber-Grip-w_-...uctinfo/70083/

May 8, 2018, 04:31 AM	#62
Cosmodragoon Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2013 Location: Northeastern US Posts: 1,869	Both are good and it depends on the actual model. One thing I like about the 686 is the ability to wear those cushy X-frame grips. It makes for the most comfortable .357 magnum shooting possible. One thing I hate about the modern 686 is that ugly lock hole in the side. It isn't just a totally unnecessary component that could possibly fail and lock the gun in a time of need. It is a feature that only exists at the coercive behest of the Clinton Administration and an organized anti-gun movement that is still waging a very real war on our rights in every city and state in the nation. I'd rather not have a constant visual reminder of that in such a prominent location. (Yeah, the warning stamps on the Ruger are bad but not as bad. At least they've been moved to a less prominent location on new guns.)