Going back to an M&P!

Georgian · May 25, 2020, 08:07 AM

Hey yall. Back in December, I decided to try the P320 Carry, my first and only Sig. I fell in love with the gun, it is accurate and easy for me to shoot well. I shoot quite a bit of steel case 9mm, and have quite a bit on hand. I expect any handgun I own to be able to shoot it in an emergency and at the range. The P320 ran the steel case at first, but over the last few months, it has began to completely choke on steel. Although I ensured the extractor and it's components were consistently cleaned, the P320 chokes on every other round of steel and fails to extractor every time. I installed a Lone Wolf extractor hoping this might solve the issue, but it did not. I also ordered completely new extractor parts from Sig to replace them all, but decided I no longer trust this gun with my life and do not believe sending it back to Sig would solve anything, as they will only tell me not to run steel.

As a result, I made the choice to go back to an M&P, as the GEN 1 and 2.0 I've had over the years never malfunctioned with any type of ammo I ran through them. I now have a M&P9 2.0 FDE with the Truglo FTX sights on the way and plan to provide a complete range repo

TunnelRat · May 25, 2020, 08:11 AM

If a firearm runs brass and defensive ammo fine then I would still trust my life with it, but I realize I may be biased as I rarely use steel. Enjoy going back to M&Ps.

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Forte S+W · May 25, 2020, 09:17 AM

Whatever floats your boat, but personally I don't see the point of dumping an otherwise reliable firearm just because it won't cycle cheap steel-cased ammo reliably.

But then again, I don't understand why so many folks pay for premium brand firearms only to feed them the cheapest ammo they can possibly get their hands on either, and plenty of folks do that too.

Different strokes.

Georgian · May 25, 2020, 09:36 AM

I have attempted to diagnose the problem with other Sig owners, and none can offer any insight other than "don't feed it cheap ammo". That argument does not hold water with me. I understand that steel case ammo is looked at as being lower quality and in the past maybe it was. I have shot case after case of the stuff and have seen good accuracy and reliability with it out of Glocks, M&Ps, Rugers, and even SCCY handguns; some people believe it is dirtier than other types of ammo, but I personally have not seen that. When I have to pry a stuck casing out of a handgun with a reputation like Sig, something is wrong. Some people may be able to live with the fact that their gun runs fine only with brass or they only intend to feed it with brass, but if I need to use any kind of ammo (within reason) in an emergency, I want to be able to depend on my gun cycling that ammo. I wanted to like the Sig, and did for awhile, but I don't want to have to worry about having a Type 3 Malf in a bad situation.

Mackie244Bud · May 25, 2020, 01:05 PM

Drop a Sig in Favor of Steel Ammo!

Drop any gun in favor of Steel Ammo!

EDC FMJ Steel Ammo!

I've heard it all now!

Isn't there a saying "Throw the Baby out with the Bath water"..LOL

Ammoseek Steel Case FMJ: 1,000 Rounds $177.00

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/9mm-luger?nr=1000&ca=steel

Ammoseek Brass FMJ: 1,000 Rounds $254.00 (Blazer Brass)
There is less expensive Brass at $229.00 which would br $2.50 more than Steel per box of 50.

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/9mm-luger/...kw=FMJ&nr=1000

Steel to Blazer Brass = $80.00 / $4.00 per box of 50 for Brass..

I would not toss a Gun I like but look for the best Deal on Brass.
I didn't use steel even when I shot my M&P Shield.

I do not Carry FMJ Ammo..so I don't know why I would want to shoot Steel.
I use Federal HST JHP for my Carry ammo.

dyl · May 25, 2020, 01:37 PM

Aside from extractor issues, I'm guessing something is decreasing the velocity of the slide moving both rearwards and forwards. Fouling or dry frame rails, the grooves in the slide that the frame rails ride on, recoil spring, contact surfaces of the barrel and maybe even the chamber. Not knowing the nature of the malfunctions, making sure those are clean and lubricated would do it.

Still, it's strange. Usually I'd think it would be backwards: during the break in period, springs are stiffer and parts aren't burnished yet, so I'd expect the weak seal of the steel case against the chamber walls would be more likely to provide inadequate rearward force. Instead, yours started out fine and then had malfunctions which makes me think of anything that would increase resistance as time goes on. Good luck, I still have my Gen 1 M&P 40c / 9c and while I've felt the pull of all these new guns, I like the size of it.

Georgian · May 25, 2020, 01:57 PM

I do not carry steel case for defense; I use Hornady Critical Duty 135gr hollow points. But if I ever did need to use it to defend myself with it (in an emergency), I want my carry gun to cycle it.

Slide velocity is not an issue, as it feeds and ejects brass 4-6 feet to my 3-5 o'clock and the gun was properly maintained after every range session.

Forte S+W · May 25, 2020, 03:03 PM

In what incredibly unlikely scenario would anyone have to rely solely upon steel-cased ammo?

Mackie244Bud · May 25, 2020, 08:04 PM

^^^^^ Ditto!

I don't know what to tell you Georgian,

My Home Defense & EDC P320 X-Compact Rx is always loaded with Federal HST 124g JHP

My EDC P365 is always Loaded with HST 124g JHP

And I would bet that your Defensive Firearms are always loaded with your Hornady Critical Duty 135gr hollow points.
You would not slip up and leave Steel Cased Ammo loaded.

I have always heard that it is best to Train with what you carry and we know that you do not Carry Steel Cased Ammo!
So...How is your Steel Case Ammo at I'm sure a a different Grain than the Critical Duty's 135g going to help you train?
So when it is time to shoot your Hornady Critical Duty 135g JHP?
it will feel as natural as shooting your Steel Case Ammo?
In a real Emergency the Critical Duty 135g JHP will not shoot the same as your Steel Case Ammo
So you are actually doing a disservice to yourself, & Loved Ones when your skill needs to be at it's best.

Whereas my range time is spent shooting ALL 124g Brass the only difference is FMJ or JHP.

So in my Emergency the Brass 124g JHP I will feel as Comfortable (recoil) and Accurate as my Range Training with Brass 124g FMJ

You do not want the bulk of your shooting to be with a completely different round than what you will be shooting in a Emergency Live situation!
Does that make sense to you?

Also when I go to the Range I shoot both FMJ & JHP..
When you are at the range do you shoot both the FMJ Steel Cased Ammo & the Hornady Critical Duty 135g JHP?
If so how different do these 2 rounds feel when shooting them?

The whole reason for training with a comparable ammo to your defensive ammo is that FMJ is cheaper than just Training exclusively with your Defensive ammo.
In a perfect world and if you could afford it... is to Train exclusively with your JHP Defensive ammo since that is what you are going to be carrying and have at home!

Just Sayin'

Bfglowkey · May 26, 2020, 05:16 AM

We can easily debate it both ways, in the end the OP believes a quality pistol should perform under all scenarios, regardless of how likely or unlikely it is.

rodfac · May 26, 2020, 07:05 AM

....sounds like Sig meant it when they advised don't shoot steel in the owner's manual...there must be a reason....Rod

Tactical Jackalope · May 26, 2020, 04:34 PM

I don't know what the fuss is about.

If the OP wants to drop SIG (good choice to drop) because of his gun being incapable of running steel cased range ammo, then so be it.

I'd like my every day carry or any gun in my stable to be able to run anything I put through it. Then again....That may also be why my stable is so much smaller than it once was. Got rid of the picky safe queens that need excess attention.

Webleymkv · May 26, 2020, 11:17 PM

Just out of curiosity, what brand of steel case ammo was your Sig having problems with? Not all steel case ammo is of the same quality in my experience. I personally have had much better luck with Wolf and Tula than with Brown/Silver/Golden Bear. I've not tried the Winchester USA Forged steel case, but I've not heard good things (I've personally sworn off Winchester ammo due to various problems I've had over the years).

Flight567 · May 27, 2020, 01:58 AM

I would also be interested in knowing what the nature of the malfunctions are. You said it was malfunctioning every couple of rounds?

I've got... I don't know, 2700 rounds into my SIG. I've never had any problem running steel case. Probably 500 of those have been steel case. My only malfs have been related to hard primers (or light primer strikes perhaps, though I would put my money in hard primers).

That being said I'm thinking about moving to an M&P 2.0 myself

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Georgian · May 27, 2020, 05:56 AM

I ran Wolf and Tulammo through it with the same results, every other round exhibiting a Type 3 Malfunction, failure to extract. The case is either partially extracted (with half in/out of the chamber) or completely stuck in the chamber.

Flight567 · May 27, 2020, 12:34 PM

It almost sounds to me like you're having a pressure issue, if the extractor isn't fixing the problem. Are the casings difficult to pull out if the chamber?

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Sharkbite · May 27, 2020, 12:57 PM

A lot of steel cased ammo has a thin lacquer coating on the case. This tends to build up on the chamber walls and leads to tough extraction. Ive seen it make a loaded round impossible to extract to unload the gun. Luckily, it happened during a training class and being on a range we just fired that round to get it out.

I would imagine a build up of this lacquer could cause the fired case to stick enough to cause a type 3 malfunction.

Before i gave up on the pistol, i would clean the heck out of the chamber. Like soak it in a solvent overnight and then chuck a chamber brush onto a rod in a drill and scrub the crap out of it. Get every last bit of lacquer out.

The brush is WAY softer then the steel of the chamber. Your not going to hurt it if you only let the brush touch anything.

Georgian · May 27, 2020, 01:15 PM

The last time I took it to the range I ensured it was as clean as possible. I ran 100 rounds of brass through it to warm it up. I then attempted to run steel, and it choked every other round, TYPE 3 MALF, with some of the cases needing to be pryed out of the chamber. I did attempt to chock up a bore brush in my drill motor, but it broke in short order. None of the other handguns I have ran it through have gotten any sort of coating on the inside of the chamber nor experienced any issues with the same steel case I have been attempting to use in the P320. I maintain all my firearms in the same manner, and clean after every range session.

Flight567 · May 27, 2020, 02:20 PM

That sounds more an more like a stuck case due to a pressure issue if you're having trouble even prying the case out. if you pull the barrel out, and put a snap cap, or casing (steel, or brass) does it have problems sliding into and out of the chamber?

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the45er · June 10, 2020, 05:43 PM

A lot of folks on here trying to convince the OP to change his ways. If a man wants to buy a Ferrari and trade it in when it doesn’t run well on regular gas, that’s totally his business!

COSteve · June 10, 2020, 05:54 PM

To save money on ammo, learn to reload and then you won't have to buy that cheap, dirty, damaging, poorly performing commie steel crap. I've handloaded for over 18 years and have never fired a steel or aluminum cased round in any weapon I own. And best of all, I can load quality ammo for much cheaper than the cheapest commercial steel crap as well.

smee78 · June 10, 2020, 05:59 PM

OK, enjoy the M&P. Send me the Sig I'll take it.

Hawg · June 10, 2020, 06:11 PM

There's nothing wrong with steel cased ammo. It's not going to hurt anything. I agree with the original poster, a quality gun or any gun period should have no trouble running steel cased. The U.S. government used billions of rounds of steel cased ammo during WWII. I like it because it's nice now and then to not have to worry about chasing brass.

TunnelRat · June 10, 2020, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COSteve

To save money on ammo, learn to reload and then you won't have to buy that cheap, dirty, damaging, poorly performing commie steel crap. I've handloaded for over 18 years and have never fired a steel or aluminum cased round in any weapon I own. And best of all, I can load quality ammo for much cheaper than the cheapest commercial steel crap as well.

I don’t generally shoot steel either, but let’s pump the brakes a bit. It takes a steel of equal or greater hardness to damage another steel in terms of impact on something like an extractor. Steel cased ammo shouldn’t be “damaging” anything. Even bullets with a mild steel jacket are pretty unlikely to damage a barrel at the velocities of a pistol round. I’ll also add not just communists shoot steel cased ammo.

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gsparesa · June 12, 2020, 06:02 PM

I’m no expert but I would like to interject an idea here. First I would agree with the OPs decision of dropping the Sig because it is logical to me. I’m not a Sig hater since I personally own three Sigs. I believe that the Sig is made with tighter tolerances. The steel cases are not as springy as brass cases. This means it would take a little longer For steel to get a tight seal In the chamber as pressure increases. This would leave a whole bunch of carbon inside the chamber causing FTE failures. Someone suggested using a brass brush on a drill to clean out the chamber. I agree with that. My CZ 75b will have this issue. Yes, A CZ. I have never had a problem again after using a Brass brush with a drill.

May 25, 2020, 08:07 AM	#1
Georgian Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: SE Georgia Posts: 208	Going back to an M&P! Hey yall. Back in December, I decided to try the P320 Carry, my first and only Sig. I fell in love with the gun, it is accurate and easy for me to shoot well. I shoot quite a bit of steel case 9mm, and have quite a bit on hand. I expect any handgun I own to be able to shoot it in an emergency and at the range. The P320 ran the steel case at first, but over the last few months, it has began to completely choke on steel. Although I ensured the extractor and it's components were consistently cleaned, the P320 chokes on every other round of steel and fails to extractor every time. I installed a Lone Wolf extractor hoping this might solve the issue, but it did not. I also ordered completely new extractor parts from Sig to replace them all, but decided I no longer trust this gun with my life and do not believe sending it back to Sig would solve anything, as they will only tell me not to run steel. As a result, I made the choice to go back to an M&P, as the GEN 1 and 2.0 I've had over the years never malfunctioned with any type of ammo I ran through them. I now have a M&P9 2.0 FDE with the Truglo FTX sights on the way and plan to provide a complete range repo __________________ ~"Speak softly and carry a big stick"~T. Roosevelt God Bless

May 25, 2020, 09:17 AM	#3
Forte S+W Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2019 Posts: 819	Whatever floats your boat, but personally I don't see the point of dumping an otherwise reliable firearm just because it won't cycle cheap steel-cased ammo reliably. But then again, I don't understand why so many folks pay for premium brand firearms only to feed them the cheapest ammo they can possibly get their hands on either, and plenty of folks do that too. Different strokes. __________________ Conspiracy theorists are the greatest political spin-doctors of all time. Only they can make the absolute worst political blunders sound like spectacular feats of ingenuity.

May 25, 2020, 09:36 AM	#4
Georgian Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: SE Georgia Posts: 208	I have attempted to diagnose the problem with other Sig owners, and none can offer any insight other than "don't feed it cheap ammo". That argument does not hold water with me. I understand that steel case ammo is looked at as being lower quality and in the past maybe it was. I have shot case after case of the stuff and have seen good accuracy and reliability with it out of Glocks, M&Ps, Rugers, and even SCCY handguns; some people believe it is dirtier than other types of ammo, but I personally have not seen that. When I have to pry a stuck casing out of a handgun with a reputation like Sig, something is wrong. Some people may be able to live with the fact that their gun runs fine only with brass or they only intend to feed it with brass, but if I need to use any kind of ammo (within reason) in an emergency, I want to be able to depend on my gun cycling that ammo. I wanted to like the Sig, and did for awhile, but I don't want to have to worry about having a Type 3 Malf in a bad situation. __________________ ~"Speak softly and carry a big stick"~T. Roosevelt God Bless

May 25, 2020, 01:05 PM	#5
Mackie244Bud Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2017 Location: South Florida Posts: 252	Drop a Sig in Favor of Steel Ammo! Drop any gun in favor of Steel Ammo! EDC FMJ Steel Ammo! I've heard it all now! Isn't there a saying "Throw the Baby out with the Bath water"..LOL Ammoseek Steel Case FMJ: 1,000 Rounds $177.00 https://ammoseek.com/ammo/9mm-luger?nr=1000&ca=steel Ammoseek Brass FMJ: 1,000 Rounds $254.00 (Blazer Brass) There is less expensive Brass at $229.00 which would br $2.50 more than Steel per box of 50. https://ammoseek.com/ammo/9mm-luger/...kw=FMJ&nr=1000 Steel to Blazer Brass = $80.00 / $4.00 per box of 50 for Brass.. I would not toss a Gun I like but look for the best Deal on Brass. I didn't use steel even when I shot my M&P Shield. I do not Carry FMJ Ammo..so I don't know why I would want to shoot Steel. I use Federal HST JHP for my Carry ammo. Last edited by Mackie244Bud; May 25, 2020 at 01:47 PM.

May 25, 2020, 01:57 PM	#7
Georgian Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: SE Georgia Posts: 208	I do not carry steel case for defense; I use Hornady Critical Duty 135gr hollow points. But if I ever did need to use it to defend myself with it (in an emergency), I want my carry gun to cycle it. Slide velocity is not an issue, as it feeds and ejects brass 4-6 feet to my 3-5 o'clock and the gun was properly maintained after every range session. __________________ ~"Speak softly and carry a big stick"~T. Roosevelt God Bless

May 25, 2020, 08:11 AM	#2
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	If a firearm runs brass and defensive ammo fine then I would still trust my life with it, but I realize I may be biased as I rarely use steel. Enjoy going back to M&Ps. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

May 25, 2020, 01:37 PM	#6
dyl Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,310	Aside from extractor issues, I'm guessing something is decreasing the velocity of the slide moving both rearwards and forwards. Fouling or dry frame rails, the grooves in the slide that the frame rails ride on, recoil spring, contact surfaces of the barrel and maybe even the chamber. Not knowing the nature of the malfunctions, making sure those are clean and lubricated would do it. Still, it's strange. Usually I'd think it would be backwards: during the break in period, springs are stiffer and parts aren't burnished yet, so I'd expect the weak seal of the steel case against the chamber walls would be more likely to provide inadequate rearward force. Instead, yours started out fine and then had malfunctions which makes me think of anything that would increase resistance as time goes on. Good luck, I still have my Gen 1 M&P 40c / 9c and while I've felt the pull of all these new guns, I like the size of it.

May 25, 2020, 03:03 PM	#8
Forte S+W Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2019 Posts: 819	In what incredibly unlikely scenario would anyone have to rely solely upon steel-cased ammo? __________________ Conspiracy theorists are the greatest political spin-doctors of all time. Only they can make the absolute worst political blunders sound like spectacular feats of ingenuity.

May 25, 2020, 08:04 PM	#9
Mackie244Bud Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2017 Location: South Florida Posts: 252	^^^^^ Ditto! I don't know what to tell you Georgian, My Home Defense & EDC P320 X-Compact Rx is always loaded with Federal HST 124g JHP My EDC P365 is always Loaded with HST 124g JHP And I would bet that your Defensive Firearms are always loaded with your Hornady Critical Duty 135gr hollow points. You would not slip up and leave Steel Cased Ammo loaded. I have always heard that it is best to Train with what you carry and we know that you do not Carry Steel Cased Ammo! So...How is your Steel Case Ammo at I'm sure a a different Grain than the Critical Duty's 135g going to help you train? So when it is time to shoot your Hornady Critical Duty 135g JHP? it will feel as natural as shooting your Steel Case Ammo? In a real Emergency the Critical Duty 135g JHP will not shoot the same as your Steel Case Ammo So you are actually doing a disservice to yourself, & Loved Ones when your skill needs to be at it's best. Whereas my range time is spent shooting ALL 124g Brass the only difference is FMJ or JHP. So in my Emergency the Brass 124g JHP I will feel as Comfortable (recoil) and Accurate as my Range Training with Brass 124g FMJ You do not want the bulk of your shooting to be with a completely different round than what you will be shooting in a Emergency Live situation! Does that make sense to you? Also when I go to the Range I shoot both FMJ & JHP.. When you are at the range do you shoot both the FMJ Steel Cased Ammo & the Hornady Critical Duty 135g JHP? If so how different do these 2 rounds feel when shooting them? The whole reason for training with a comparable ammo to your defensive ammo is that FMJ is cheaper than just Training exclusively with your Defensive ammo. In a perfect world and if you could afford it... is to Train exclusively with your JHP Defensive ammo since that is what you are going to be carrying and have at home! Just Sayin' Last edited by Mackie244Bud; May 25, 2020 at 09:41 PM.

May 26, 2020, 05:16 AM	#10
Bfglowkey Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2018 Posts: 302	We can easily debate it both ways, in the end the OP believes a quality pistol should perform under all scenarios, regardless of how likely or unlikely it is.

May 26, 2020, 07:05 AM	#11
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,624	....sounds like Sig meant it when they advised don't shoot steel in the owner's manual...there must be a reason....Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.

May 26, 2020, 04:34 PM	#12
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	I don't know what the fuss is about. If the OP wants to drop SIG (good choice to drop) because of his gun being incapable of running steel cased range ammo, then so be it. I'd like my every day carry or any gun in my stable to be able to run anything I put through it. Then again....That may also be why my stable is so much smaller than it once was. Got rid of the picky safe queens that need excess attention.

May 26, 2020, 11:17 PM	#13
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	Just out of curiosity, what brand of steel case ammo was your Sig having problems with? Not all steel case ammo is of the same quality in my experience. I personally have had much better luck with Wolf and Tula than with Brown/Silver/Golden Bear. I've not tried the Winchester USA Forged steel case, but I've not heard good things (I've personally sworn off Winchester ammo due to various problems I've had over the years).

May 27, 2020, 01:58 AM	#14
Flight567 Member Join Date: February 22, 2020 Posts: 46	I would also be interested in knowing what the nature of the malfunctions are. You said it was malfunctioning every couple of rounds? I've got... I don't know, 2700 rounds into my SIG. I've never had any problem running steel case. Probably 500 of those have been steel case. My only malfs have been related to hard primers (or light primer strikes perhaps, though I would put my money in hard primers). That being said I'm thinking about moving to an M&P 2.0 myself Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

May 27, 2020, 05:56 AM	#15
Georgian Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: SE Georgia Posts: 208	I ran Wolf and Tulammo through it with the same results, every other round exhibiting a Type 3 Malfunction, failure to extract. The case is either partially extracted (with half in/out of the chamber) or completely stuck in the chamber. __________________ ~"Speak softly and carry a big stick"~T. Roosevelt God Bless

May 27, 2020, 12:34 PM	#16
Flight567 Member Join Date: February 22, 2020 Posts: 46	It almost sounds to me like you're having a pressure issue, if the extractor isn't fixing the problem. Are the casings difficult to pull out if the chamber? Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

May 27, 2020, 12:57 PM	#17
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	A lot of steel cased ammo has a thin lacquer coating on the case. This tends to build up on the chamber walls and leads to tough extraction. Ive seen it make a loaded round impossible to extract to unload the gun. Luckily, it happened during a training class and being on a range we just fired that round to get it out. I would imagine a build up of this lacquer could cause the fired case to stick enough to cause a type 3 malfunction. Before i gave up on the pistol, i would clean the heck out of the chamber. Like soak it in a solvent overnight and then chuck a chamber brush onto a rod in a drill and scrub the crap out of it. Get every last bit of lacquer out. The brush is WAY softer then the steel of the chamber. Your not going to hurt it if you only let the brush touch anything.

May 27, 2020, 01:15 PM	#18
Georgian Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: SE Georgia Posts: 208	The last time I took it to the range I ensured it was as clean as possible. I ran 100 rounds of brass through it to warm it up. I then attempted to run steel, and it choked every other round, TYPE 3 MALF, with some of the cases needing to be pryed out of the chamber. I did attempt to chock up a bore brush in my drill motor, but it broke in short order. None of the other handguns I have ran it through have gotten any sort of coating on the inside of the chamber nor experienced any issues with the same steel case I have been attempting to use in the P320. I maintain all my firearms in the same manner, and clean after every range session. __________________ ~"Speak softly and carry a big stick"~T. Roosevelt God Bless

May 27, 2020, 02:20 PM	#19
Flight567 Member Join Date: February 22, 2020 Posts: 46	That sounds more an more like a stuck case due to a pressure issue if you're having trouble even prying the case out. if you pull the barrel out, and put a snap cap, or casing (steel, or brass) does it have problems sliding into and out of the chamber? Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

June 10, 2020, 05:43 PM	#20
the45er Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2008 Location: The mini-hill country of Texas Posts: 254	A lot of folks on here trying to convince the OP to change his ways. If a man wants to buy a Ferrari and trade it in when it doesn’t run well on regular gas, that’s totally his business!

June 10, 2020, 05:54 PM	#21
COSteve Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2009 Posts: 1,344	To save money on ammo, learn to reload and then you won't have to buy that cheap, dirty, damaging, poorly performing commie steel crap. I've handloaded for over 18 years and have never fired a steel or aluminum cased round in any weapon I own. And best of all, I can load quality ammo for much cheaper than the cheapest commercial steel crap as well.

June 10, 2020, 05:59 PM	#22
smee78 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2008 Location: South Carolina Posts: 2,918	OK, enjoy the M&P. Send me the Sig I'll take it. __________________ We know exactly where one cow with Mad-cow-disease is located, among the millions and millions of cows in America, but we haven't got a clue where thousands of illegal immigrants and terrorists are

June 10, 2020, 06:11 PM	#23
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	There's nothing wrong with steel cased ammo. It's not going to hurt anything. I agree with the original poster, a quality gun or any gun period should have no trouble running steel cased. The U.S. government used billions of rounds of steel cased ammo during WWII. I like it because it's nice now and then to not have to worry about chasing brass.

June 12, 2020, 06:02 PM	#25
gsparesa Member Join Date: January 3, 2013 Posts: 64	I’m no expert but I would like to interject an idea here. First I would agree with the OPs decision of dropping the Sig because it is logical to me. I’m not a Sig hater since I personally own three Sigs. I believe that the Sig is made with tighter tolerances. The steel cases are not as springy as brass cases. This means it would take a little longer For steel to get a tight seal In the chamber as pressure increases. This would leave a whole bunch of carbon inside the chamber causing FTE failures. Someone suggested using a brass brush on a drill to clean out the chamber. I agree with that. My CZ 75b will have this issue. Yes, A CZ. I have never had a problem again after using a Brass brush with a drill. Last edited by gsparesa; June 12, 2020 at 06:08 PM.