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April 30, 2019, 12:58 PM | #26 | |
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What we (IMHO) **must** realize is that the anti-gun forces are irrational about guns. They love the term "common sense," but common sense should dictate that the key to reducing crime is to address criminals, not to ban tools. The position of the gun control advocates is illogical and irrational. It completely ignores the reality that if people want to commit crimes, they will find ways to do it. It's much more difficult for people in Europe to have guns than it is in the U.S. Result: Look at the carnage in Europe over the past year (or so) wrought by people driving cars and trucks into throngs of people. And now that's coming to the U.S. There was an incident not all that long ago, IIRC, in which somebody drove a rented truck down a bikeway in New York City. And four days ago someone did the same thing in San Francisco. Note the locations: New York City and San Francisco are among the American cities where it's the most difficult for citizens to have guns. So ... people who wanted to kill other people simply moved on and chose an alternate weapon. Lack of access to guns did NOT prevent the attacks. Any belief that it might do so is, IMHO, magical thinking. |
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April 30, 2019, 01:19 PM | #27 | |
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It also leads us down a dismal slope of encroachments on all our civil liberties.
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April 30, 2019, 02:17 PM | #28 | ||
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1977 https://news.google.com/newspapers?i...453,474007&dq= 1984 https://news.google.com/newspapers?i...07,2783364&dq= 2004 Serial Rammer https://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/17/n...s-killing.html 2006 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_UNC_SUV_attack 2006 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_S...co_SUV_rampage 2010 Canada https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...rowd-1.1062248 2011 https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/...rs-on-purpose/ 2013 https://www.latimes.com/local/crime/...501-story.html 2014 https://www.amny.com/news/kevin-week...g-1-1.11613252 2014 https://www.foxnews.com/us/driver-in...wd-report-says 2015 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-l...0U40X120151223 2016 https://abc7ny.com/woman-convicted-f...stead/3156420/ 2017 https://thehill.com/homenews/news/42...y-convicted-of So yeah, we have been doing it here in the states for terrorist, anger, revenge, mental health reasons for decades, and these were necessarily due to a lack of access of guns. In reality, this goes on and has been going on around the world, China, Japan, Brazil, Israel, Haiti, Canada, Turkey, England, various countries in mainland Europe, Egypt, etc. It is described in an Al-Queada book from 2010 for this purpose... https://abc7chicago.com/news/authori...in-us/1954694/
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April 30, 2019, 04:39 PM | #29 |
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Double Naught: Your statistics on automotive-related assaults just document my point. There was no outcry after those incidents to ban automobiles or to subject people to intrusive background checks before allowing them to apply for a driver's license. Guns really are somewhat unique in having been singled out as agents of destruction.
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April 30, 2019, 05:46 PM | #30 |
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The term hate crime is over used...or perhaps redundant.
If you kill someone in cold blood it's an act of hate. Color, race age or sex doesn't matter. It's still hate. It's sad that there are those who will use every tragedy to push an agenda. It shouldn't be that way. What matters are the victims. Stopping crimes should be the only agenda, not a mean to push other agendas. Guns aren't and never were the problem or the issue. It is all about how people treat each other. Violent crimes don't stop when guns are restricted or banned. Statistics show that the UK gun ban increased crime by nearly 50%. Unfortunately you have to WANT to look at those facts because they are never mentioned by those posing an anti-gun agenda. And as far a gun laws go....every mass shooting happened because someone broke an existing law or laws. Does anyone thing more laws won't be broken? |
April 30, 2019, 07:08 PM | #31 |
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19 year old boy in General Lock-up. Perhaps the rest of his life?
Sad jailing outcome for He and suffering memory's for family is assured. |
May 1, 2019, 06:58 AM | #32 | |
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May 1, 2019, 07:00 AM | #33 |
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It would appear that the shooter was using low capacity 10 round magazines.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/alleged-gu...ry?id=62726420 https://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...i7u-story.html
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May 1, 2019, 07:09 AM | #34 |
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Oscar Stewart, the unarmed good guy who chased the shooter, is a former Navy EOD guy and US Army staff sergeant.
Good on Oscar Stewart. Last edited by thallub; May 1, 2019 at 07:15 AM. |
May 1, 2019, 07:15 AM | #35 |
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So the gun was purchased legally. In California, which already has in place pretty much every anti-gun restriction the gun control advocates want nationally. And it didn't prevent an attack. A rational person would draw some logical inferences from that regarding the efficacy of "gun" laws to control human behavior, but (as we know), the gun control advocates aren't rational.
Does anyone know if the synagogue is/was a gun-free zone? Either by state law or by its own policies? |
May 1, 2019, 07:30 AM | #36 |
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The purpose of guns is not to kill. The primary purpose of guns is to protect. The military uses them to protect our country and its interests, law enforcement use them to protect our communities and businesses, and citizens use them to protect our homes and families. Killing is often an outcome of this protection, but not the purpose of the firearm. Killing outside the purpose of protection is a misuse of the firearm.
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In NJ, the bad guys are armed and the households are alarmed. In VA, the households are armed and the bad guys are alarmed. |
May 1, 2019, 09:34 AM | #37 | ||
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https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendm...ogue-shooting/ However, it was not a GFZ by policy. In fact, the rabbi had been having volunteer armed guards present, but had gotten complacent about maintaining armed vigils. https://news.yahoo.com/fearing-attac...QDBHNlYwNzcg-- Quote:
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May 1, 2019, 10:05 AM | #38 |
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It has nothing to do with what laws are in place, have been broken, shooters age...
Anti gun policies are just that, anti gun! They don't want people to own or have access to any guns period! And if you think one party is better than the other, you need to wake up. Playing nice so that we look good doesn't matter either, look at how anti gun people act and no one cares! If they did, these people would've been stomped into the dirt already! The most disturbing thing is that each time this happens, they don't care what the circumstances are, they just start in on the gun control B.S. Do you think they care about the families of the victims?
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May 1, 2019, 10:11 AM | #39 | |
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May 1, 2019, 10:13 AM | #40 |
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This thread is to discuss the incident. Let's not go down general gun control issues.
We have plenty of discussion of such elsewhere. I don't want to close it, so don't go off topic. Thanks.
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May 1, 2019, 11:42 AM | #41 | |
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And we need more people like the border patrol agent who had a handgun and engaged the shooter, and the unarmed person who, even though he was unarmed, charged the shooter. |
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May 1, 2019, 12:57 PM | #42 | |
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Look at the history of the firearm and you'll see that it was invented (by the Chinese) as a weapon for waging war. Over the history of firearms, most advances in firearms design and technology have been driven by the use of firearms for war and for killing (be it people or animals). The notion of owning firearms for a purpose or purposes other than killing (people or animals) is comparatively very recent. Even today, since hunting involves killing (animals), I would have to question whether more people, either in the U.S. or worldwide) have guns for some kind of self defense that doesn't include killing, or for a primary purpose that involves killing. |
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May 1, 2019, 01:31 PM | #43 | |
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May 1, 2019, 01:39 PM | #44 | |
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As for Europe and UK as said terrorists have used other methods to kill people, knifes trucks etc. That's because firearms are harder to obtain, knifes etc are not their first choice they are used when they can't get their first choice firearms. Who would pick a knife over a automatic rifle if they wanted to cause mass casualties. ? |
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May 1, 2019, 02:30 PM | #45 | ||
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It's incorrect. It's a matter of the proper use of language, which very few people do, and some flatly refuse to. The purpose of a gun, is the same as a bow, or an atlatl, or a slingshot, etc. It is to launch a projectile in order to strike a target. What that target is, and what the shooter wants the strike to do, are decided by the shooter. "kill" or "defend" or put holes in a piece of paper, tis not the gun that decides that, it is the PERSON shooting. Quote:
Back to the topic, HAS it been determined that the killer bought his gun legally in CA? Went through their background check, waiting period, and what ever else they have? and was approved? Not that it matters if he did, only that if so, its one thing to remove from discussion.
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May 1, 2019, 02:56 PM | #46 | |
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May 1, 2019, 03:17 PM | #47 | ||
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May 1, 2019, 07:28 PM | #48 | |
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To provide and protect
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They all started out as tools/force multipliers not to kill other humans but to provide for food as there were no local Walmarts or LEO's. Eventually they were used for protection. .. If firearms were invented primarily to kill humans, then so were hammers, axes, knives, rocks and all other primitive force-multipliers. …. Be Safe !!!
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May 1, 2019, 07:44 PM | #49 | ||
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The fact that in the last century more people use firearms for hunting or for sport does not change the facts regarding the origins of the firearm. To argue otherwise just makes us look either ignorant, or (worse) like liars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_firearm Quote:
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May 1, 2019, 11:29 PM | #50 | |
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My condolences to the friends and family of the woman who was killed in the shooting. Hats off to those that challenged the shooter. As for the shooter, CA I believe does have the death penalty, its what the shooter deserves, either that or a life sentence without parole. |
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