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Old January 24, 2020, 02:47 PM   #26
T. O'Heir
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"...bolt action not being well-suited for the latter..." Not exactly true, but neither is any centre fire rifle. It's about the excessive penetration and range of any centre fire cartridge. You are 100% responsible for any shot you fire, for any reason. Hit something or somebody you didn't intend to makes you guilty.
A milsurp .308 bullet will go right through a brick wall at 100 yards with no fuss. Shot a cinder block into wee pieces and dust at 100 doing a demo for my Cadets long ago.
In any case, sub-MOA accuracy isn't required. That is more about the ammo and barrel plus all the other accurizing necessary anyway.
"...the Mini-30..." Isn't even close to MOA, never mind sub-MOA.
"...safety is so close to the trigger..." The real safety in between your ears. The M1 Rifle's safety is in the same place.
The M1A does not jam any more than any mag fed semi-auto. Nor do they slam fire more. That's caused by operator failure. Usually not following through on the shot off a bench. The shooter releases the trigger too soon.
"...a single 20 round M1A magazine..." Look for milsurp M-14 mags. Assuming those are still around.
An M1 Rifle is far too heavy for hunting in Colorado. There's a great deal of 'up' there. Mind you, so is an M1A. An M1 with a wood stock weighs 9.5 pounds. My Winchester, semi'd, M-14 with the issue fibreglas stock weighs 9 pounds.
"...a floating barrel..." Doesn't guarantee anything.
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Old January 25, 2020, 01:15 PM   #27
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Quote:
Ooooh, thank you! I am now lusting after the MSG PTR 106. Pricey, though.
Very Pricey....LOL.

That is a sub MOA rifle whereas the PTR 91 GIR is 1 to 1.5 MOA gun out of the box.

I get that with surplus M80 NATO ammunition. The design seems to love ~150 grain the best and accuracy is not improved with heavier grain weight or more expensive match ammunition. Makes it nice in that the it just seems to love the cheap stuff the best.

Here is what I get from M80 ball at 30 meters. The weapon was correctly zeroed at 30 meters to align ballistically with the stock iron sight design. It represents just over a MOA accuracy all error combined.

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Old January 25, 2020, 01:22 PM   #28
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An M1 with a wood stock weighs 9.5 pounds. My Winchester, semi'd, M-14 with the issue fibreglas stock weighs 9 pounds.
That is empty without a sling or magazine inserted.

With a sling and full magazine it is 11 lbs with a wood stock.
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Old January 25, 2020, 03:36 PM   #29
Petersburg
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My LMT MWS .308 delivers a .37" MOA five round group with Prime Ammo 175SMKs at 100 yards, and holds that accuracy out to at least 500 yards. I've not been able to shoot it any further than that.
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Old January 25, 2020, 06:21 PM   #30
JJ45
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I have a PTR91 GI Carbine with a 16" barrel. It has a barrel (chamber actually) that was designed to digest any mil surp ammo including the tar sealed types.

Not designed as some of the PTRs are for excellent accuracy so if you want tight groups from a PTR, do your homework for the right model.

But this is the model I preferred in a battle rifle. It certainly is one very robust weapon. I changed a lot of parts for original HK just playing around, including a metal lower with the full auto selector switch, paddle mag release, etc.... It is an older model. The newer GIs have the paddle already factory installed. Original, some brand new, 20 round HK mags are among the cheapest compared to M1A mags, etc.

The roller lock impulse might be different from what your used to and the controls like the selector and charging handle might take some getting used to. Awkward for some shooters.
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Old February 6, 2020, 10:07 AM   #31
Bart B.
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Originally Posted by Petersburg View Post
My LMT MWS .308 delivers a .37" MOA five round group with Prime Ammo 175SMKs at 100 yards, and holds that accuracy out to at least 500 yards. I've not been able to shoot it any further than that.
I don't think that's possible, in my opinion. That's not going to happen. Too many variables in the ammo, atmosphere and shooter.
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Old February 6, 2020, 04:46 PM   #32
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The thread is old enough that I hesitate to reply, but here goes.

To the OP, I think there is a better solution to your issue. Trying to make one semi-auto do what you want is just asking too much. The hunting rifles you're considering are unsuitable for defensive uses and are not accurate enough for any precision work.

The combat rifles are rugged and reliable enough and some of them can be pretty accurate. But to get that you're going to have to deal with a 10+ lb rifle that is going to be well into 4 figures and would not the best option for hunting.

For very near $1000 you can get a very good bolt action hunting rifle that will be much more suitable for hunting AND buy a pretty decent AR-15 in 223 that would be a better option for personal defense. You need 2 rifles, and can do it for less money.

If I absolutely had to make 1 rifle work it would be a bolt guns in some variation of a scout rifle.
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Old February 23, 2020, 07:49 PM   #33
Houndog
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I've owned a PTR 91, CMP Garand, and an AR10. Still have the Garand and the AR10. Did not like the recoil or ergonomics of the PTR91, although it did run like a champ.

However, I kind of agree with Ocharry - just get an AR10. It will be shorter and more maneuverable, ergonomics are great, lots of aftermarket parts so you can upgrade trigger, etc. They generally have excellent accuracy. You don't have to mess with a fixed magazine. And you can toss a wide variety of scopes onto one - anything from a red dot to a high power variable scope.
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Old February 24, 2020, 07:41 AM   #34
agtman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petersburg View Post
My LMT MWS .308 delivers a .37" MOA five round group with Prime Ammo 175SMKs at 100 yards, and holds that accuracy out to at least 500 yards. I've not been able to shoot it any further than that.
Quote:
I don't think that's possible, in my opinion. That's not going to happen. Too many variables in the ammo, atmosphere and shooter.
Even if his LMT MWS's accuracy wasn't '.37" MOA' as claimed, it's main down-side is that it becomes a weighty beast with a scope mounted, bipod, sling, and loaded mag. I've got the LMT LM8 which is supposedly the lighter trimmer variant. It ain't, not really.

My iron-sighted .308 M1 Garand, slung and loaded with a full clip of 7.62 ball, is lighter.
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Old February 24, 2020, 09:25 AM   #35
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I have an AR Stoner upper in 7.62x39 on an Anderson lower with a Nikon 3x9 scope on it that’s sub 2MOA out to 200 yds. Very reliable, hunting/SD accurate and just an all around nice rifle to shoot. No rail, just standard Magpul furniture and a Nickel Boron trigger group with JP springs. Not counting the scope I have about $450.00 in it.
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Old February 24, 2020, 04:04 PM   #36
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If you could find one , maybe a Winchester model 100.
I killed my first whitetail with one chambered in .308 back in 1964. Great rifle and worth the search for one, imo; but I doubt you'll ever find one delivering sub-moa accuracy.
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Old Yesterday, 01:47 AM   #37
Nine2Five
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I am lucky enough to own the Bushmaster BAR10 and an Armalite AR10A2, both are 20" H-Bar barrel and deadly with open sights. I plan on putting a good long range scope on the Armalite for hog hunting (we are overrun with them here in Central Texas) Rock River is supposed to come out with their version, I own an AR15 in the A2 version with a 16" bbl and their .308 version (which I was told is now being renamed the LAR8) is supposed to be on the market soon, about a year late. for the price, you cant beat Rock River Arms, good workmanship and about $300 cheaper than the Bushmasters (discontinued) and Armalites, I belive RR bought the .308 design from Bushmaster.
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