Noob question on casting

grindal · June 25, 2009, 10:44 AM

Hi all! I have found what I believe to be a good source of lead to start casting my own "boolits." Problem is this lead will be from rooftops, so it is going to be basically 100%, not good for reloading as is. I have read on here from several others to add some 95/5 solder to the mix to get the tin needed to properly fill the molds, but how much should I be using per lb? Also, is there a good source out there for the antimony to get the hardness up a little higher? And again, how much should I be using?

I will be reloading primarily 9mm for now, but will probably start .45 and .38 Special as well.

AlaskaMike · June 25, 2009, 11:36 AM

For the velocities you'll be seeing with those calibers, you don't need an especially hard alloy. The old-timers used to use binary lead/tin alloys and didn't mess with antimony at all. The two I see mentioned most commonly in my older books are 20:1 and 16:1 (lead:tin), by weight. I'd probably go with 16:1 myself, but I'm fortunate enough to have obscene piles of wheel weights.

Mike

snuffy · June 25, 2009, 12:39 PM

Grindal, you're correct that roof flashing is essentially pure lead. The 95-5 solder you referred to should be 95% tin and 5% antimony. Be certain that's what you get. A pound of that solder, in 20 pounds of your roof flashing would result in a 20-1 lead tin mix, with some antimony thrown in.

Now, tin don't do much for hardness. Contrary to popular belief,(internet myth). What it does do is lower the temperature you need to maintain to cast good boolits, and aid in mold fillout. Now, more than 2% of tin in an alloy is wasted. The 20-1 alloy has 5% tin in it. More that needed. But it will give you nice shiny boolits.

As far as antimony, the best source is linotype metal. Problem with that is; it's getting real difficult to find. The printing presses that used it are long gone, being replaced by modern printing processes. You CAN get it on ebay, but be aware it's not full strength lino anymore. What's happening is the spacers AND the type bars are being melted together to form a much softer alloy. And that alloy is all over the place as to it's content. Depends on what ratio of spacers and type bars are mixed together.

Heres a link to a source of pure antimony, and various mixes of lead-tin- and antimony. BUT he isn't cheap/inexpensive!

http://www.theantimonyman.com/price.htm#smelt

xsquidgator · June 25, 2009, 01:09 PM

I have some wheelweights and a lot of pretty much pure Pb, so I had the same questions as you did. I did an experiment with casting some pure Pb bullets that turned out alright in 45ACP (230LRN going about 800-850 fps). The accuracy was ok even though I got some leading, but I often get some leading anyway. For close up pistol practice you might be able to cast pure lead 45 bullets and just do that. Because, antimony and tin aren't cheap! My pure lead bullets were about BHN 4, so soft it was off the scale of my hardness tester, and water quenching them didn't do anything to raise the hardness. I've read that in order for water quenching to harden bullets, there has to be at least a little antimony in the alloy.

For rifle bullets I think you do need some sort of decent alloy with some antimony in it. I've been able to run my cast rifle bullets up to 1900/2000 fps without accuracy or leading problems, using cream of wheat case filler, and so long as I water quench my wheelweight alloy. This gets the bullets up to about BHN 15-19. Push 'em too fast or hard, and the bullets don't spin stabilize and they just don't go even close to where you aim them.

Lately, I've been trying to stretch my supply of wheel weights by mixing it half and half with the pure lead I have, since I have a lot of the latter. My water-quenched "50-50" alloy bullets are in between pure lead (BHN 5)and wheelweights (BHN 20) in hardness, maybe around 14 or so. But this seems to be hard enough to work fine in 9mm and 40 for me.

Can't hurt to try, if it works then you can squeeze out the most number of bullets from the metal stock you have on hand, no buying pounds of expensive solder or antimony.

jimgiven · June 25, 2009, 02:44 PM

Grindal....just an FYI....I was at Home Depot the other day...guess what? 95/5 solder per lb was $20!!! Crazy expensive. Maybe you can find that from a better source too.

Jim

brickeyee · June 26, 2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

95/5 solder per lb was $20!!!

Tin has never been a cheap metal.

Around $7 a pound on COMEX.

Add in the testing required for potable water lines to ensure no lead is present and solder just became expensive.

snuffy · June 26, 2009, 11:41 AM

There's always the midway certified metals on their website. First the various alloys in percentage of tin/antimony/lead.

http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Brow...yString=685***

Then the pure tin. Actually I buy this once in a while to make my own alloys.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=856328

xsquidgator · June 27, 2009, 07:14 AM

One caution about mixing your own alloys from lead, tin, antimony, and arsenic: from what I've read, there is a little more to it than simply putting the right proportions into your melting pot and stirring. I wish I could remember where I read this, but for instance antimony doesn't want to easily go into solution with the lead. This causes most of the antimony to clump up on the surface of the melt, looking kind of like a layer of oatmeal, and if you're not careful enough you'll inadvertently remove that precious stuff when you skim off the dross.

If you do go the route of mixing your own, I think there are some special fluxes you can use to make all of the alloy components go into solution. There was enough to it that I put off trying to make more casting alloy. For now and for most handgun bullet casting, I stretch my WW stash by mixing my wheelweights half-and-half with pure lead and waterquench those bullets.

bustoff · June 27, 2009, 07:27 AM

another source of antimony is magnum shot , the sacks of shot sold for shotgun reloading. also buy a lead hardness tester. I have a lee, took a little practice to use accurately but now its a great help, especially if you ever use range scrap. another supplier of lead and lead alloys is "rotometals" do the google thing. seem to have competitive prices and shipping. for anything you want to know about casting, lead and its alloys, what alloys harden with age or soften with age, www.lasc.us/castbulletnotes.htm if you like casting bullets you wont be dissapointed.

June 25, 2009, 10:44 AM	#1
grindal Junior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Posts: 6	Noob question on casting Hi all! I have found what I believe to be a good source of lead to start casting my own "boolits." Problem is this lead will be from rooftops, so it is going to be basically 100%, not good for reloading as is. I have read on here from several others to add some 95/5 solder to the mix to get the tin needed to properly fill the molds, but how much should I be using per lb? Also, is there a good source out there for the antimony to get the hardness up a little higher? And again, how much should I be using? I will be reloading primarily 9mm for now, but will probably start .45 and .38 Special as well.

June 25, 2009, 12:39 PM	#3
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Grindal, you're correct that roof flashing is essentially pure lead. The 95-5 solder you referred to should be 95% tin and 5% antimony. Be certain that's what you get. A pound of that solder, in 20 pounds of your roof flashing would result in a 20-1 lead tin mix, with some antimony thrown in. Now, tin don't do much for hardness. Contrary to popular belief,(internet myth). What it does do is lower the temperature you need to maintain to cast good boolits, and aid in mold fillout. Now, more than 2% of tin in an alloy is wasted. The 20-1 alloy has 5% tin in it. More that needed. But it will give you nice shiny boolits. As far as antimony, the best source is linotype metal. Problem with that is; it's getting real difficult to find. The printing presses that used it are long gone, being replaced by modern printing processes. You CAN get it on ebay, but be aware it's not full strength lino anymore. What's happening is the spacers AND the type bars are being melted together to form a much softer alloy. And that alloy is all over the place as to it's content. Depends on what ratio of spacers and type bars are mixed together. Heres a link to a source of pure antimony, and various mixes of lead-tin- and antimony. BUT he isn't cheap/inexpensive! http://www.theantimonyman.com/price.htm#smelt __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

June 25, 2009, 02:44 PM	#5
jimgiven Member Join Date: May 13, 2009 Location: Peoples' Republic of Corzinistan Posts: 20	Grindal....just an FYI....I was at Home Depot the other day...guess what? 95/5 solder per lb was $20!!! Crazy expensive. Maybe you can find that from a better source too. Jim __________________ Best, Jim Given Take your kids hunting before you have to hunt for your kids!!!

June 26, 2009, 11:41 AM	#7
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	There's always the midway certified metals on their website. First the various alloys in percentage of tin/antimony/lead. http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Brow...yString=685*** Then the pure tin. Actually I buy this once in a while to make my own alloys. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=856328 __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

June 25, 2009, 11:36 AM	#2
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	For the velocities you'll be seeing with those calibers, you don't need an especially hard alloy. The old-timers used to use binary lead/tin alloys and didn't mess with antimony at all. The two I see mentioned most commonly in my older books are 20:1 and 16:1 (lead:tin), by weight. I'd probably go with 16:1 myself, but I'm fortunate enough to have obscene piles of wheel weights. Mike

June 25, 2009, 01:09 PM	#4
xsquidgator Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2007 Posts: 115	I have some wheelweights and a lot of pretty much pure Pb, so I had the same questions as you did. I did an experiment with casting some pure Pb bullets that turned out alright in 45ACP (230LRN going about 800-850 fps). The accuracy was ok even though I got some leading, but I often get some leading anyway. For close up pistol practice you might be able to cast pure lead 45 bullets and just do that. Because, antimony and tin aren't cheap! My pure lead bullets were about BHN 4, so soft it was off the scale of my hardness tester, and water quenching them didn't do anything to raise the hardness. I've read that in order for water quenching to harden bullets, there has to be at least a little antimony in the alloy. For rifle bullets I think you do need some sort of decent alloy with some antimony in it. I've been able to run my cast rifle bullets up to 1900/2000 fps without accuracy or leading problems, using cream of wheat case filler, and so long as I water quench my wheelweight alloy. This gets the bullets up to about BHN 15-19. Push 'em too fast or hard, and the bullets don't spin stabilize and they just don't go even close to where you aim them. Lately, I've been trying to stretch my supply of wheel weights by mixing it half and half with the pure lead I have, since I have a lot of the latter. My water-quenched "50-50" alloy bullets are in between pure lead (BHN 5)and wheelweights (BHN 20) in hardness, maybe around 14 or so. But this seems to be hard enough to work fine in 9mm and 40 for me. Can't hurt to try, if it works then you can squeeze out the most number of bullets from the metal stock you have on hand, no buying pounds of expensive solder or antimony.

June 27, 2009, 07:14 AM	#8
xsquidgator Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2007 Posts: 115	One caution about mixing your own alloys from lead, tin, antimony, and arsenic: from what I've read, there is a little more to it than simply putting the right proportions into your melting pot and stirring. I wish I could remember where I read this, but for instance antimony doesn't want to easily go into solution with the lead. This causes most of the antimony to clump up on the surface of the melt, looking kind of like a layer of oatmeal, and if you're not careful enough you'll inadvertently remove that precious stuff when you skim off the dross. If you do go the route of mixing your own, I think there are some special fluxes you can use to make all of the alloy components go into solution. There was enough to it that I put off trying to make more casting alloy. For now and for most handgun bullet casting, I stretch my WW stash by mixing my wheelweights half-and-half with pure lead and waterquench those bullets.

June 27, 2009, 07:27 AM	#9
bustoff Member Join Date: June 7, 2009 Posts: 32	another source of antimony is magnum shot , the sacks of shot sold for shotgun reloading. also buy a lead hardness tester. I have a lee, took a little practice to use accurately but now its a great help, especially if you ever use range scrap. another supplier of lead and lead alloys is "rotometals" do the google thing. seem to have competitive prices and shipping. for anything you want to know about casting, lead and its alloys, what alloys harden with age or soften with age, www.lasc.us/castbulletnotes.htm if you like casting bullets you wont be dissapointed.