Reloading the 7.62 x 39mm Russian

[hammie]

I'm awaiting the arrival of a Howa mini 1500, mounted in an MDT ORYX aluminum chassis. The rifle is chambered for 7.62 x 39mm Russian. I haven't looked really hard, but so far, I'm finding that 0.310 diameter bullets seem to have limited availability and bullet style. A couple of decades ago, I bought a lot of bulk, remington, 0.308 diameter, 125 grain bullets. They were rarely used, and so there are still buckets of them left. Since the rifle is newly manufactured, I'm hoping it will be SAAMI compliant. SAMMI specifies 0.300 for the bore diameter, and 0.310 for the groove diameter.

Is there a possibility that 0.308 diameter bullets will work in the 7.62x39mm Russian and give good accuracy? Has anyone else used 0.308 bullets in the russian round and how did they work? Of course, the final answer to this may be to just load the 0.308 bullets up and see for myself.

[stagpanther]

I consider hornady's 123 sst as sorta the gold standard for my 7.62 x 39 loads it's .310 and I've never had a problem finding them

[Shadow9mm]

will they work, probably, will the work well, doubtfully. I have looked into loading for it a few times. Finding brass brass was a bit expensive. And as you said a fairly limited bullet selection.

Berrys makes a .311 spire point plated that is not terribly priced, 1000 for $152 ish
https://www.berrysmfg.com/product/bp...9-312-123gr-sp

the Hornady SST is somewhat the gold standard from what I have seen

If you want some good potent bullets for something like hogs Lehigh makes a controlled chaos solid copper. They are a little under a dollar a bullet but the performance is stellar.
https://lehighdefense.com/311-diamet...-50-count.html

[hammie]

@stagpanther and Shadow: Right now, being available and being "in stock" seem to be two different things. The berry's bullets are in stock, but they have a 2,000 ft/sec velocity limitation. I guess for range plinking, those velocities would work. I'll just keep looking.

[ciwsguy]

A few months ago, I purchased a ruger American ranch in 7.62x39 and had some of the same questions. I bought factory S&B, Norma, PMC, Fiocchi and Hornady ammo to establish some brass to reload. I also measured bullet diameters for that factory ammo before shooting.
Here’s what I saw: most ammo had .310 diam bullets. The S&B had .311.

Also bought some steel cased Barnaul and Wolf, both had .310 bullets.

I reloaded the brass with Berry’s plated and found 22.0 grains of IMR 4198 to work best groups with average MV of 1900 FPS.
The factory S&B ammo was the most accurate for me.

Ruger American Ranch has a bit over 16” barrel

[Shadow9mm]

everglades ammo has some. 123g .310 diameter jacketed FMJ, however they are a bit expensive at $39.99 per 100.

https://www.evergladesammo.com/bulle...j-bullets.html

Graf also has a reasonable selection that are showing in stock.
https://www.grafs.com/catalog/category/categoryId/921

[ciwsguy]

Also, reloading 7.62 brass with Hornady SST bullets .310 diam over 24 grains of IMR4198 provided very good results

[armoredman]

After a while, I started casting my own for that caliber, and the NOE .314 129gr bullet sized down to .311 was outstanding. I used darn near nothing but AA#1680 powder, but was experimenting with CFE BLACK right before that rifle went away. The Hornaday 123gr spire point was my bullet of choice for a VERY long time.

[44 AMP]

Do check your dies, loading .308 bullets with a die intended for .311-312" can result in some issues.

when firing, slightly oversize bullets squeeze down ok, but undersize jacketed don't "bump up" very well...

use the right size expander for the bullets you choose.

[hammie]

@44AMP: Good advice. Thanks for the reminder. The RCBS dies, which I just bought, have two expanders: one at .311, and one at .308. Since the Hornady .310, 123 grain SST bullet is recommended by everyone, I'm not sure how the .311 expander would work for the .310 diameter. Maybe there's some spring back in the brass. I did find several sources for FMJ's, but I've never thought an FMJ could provide the same level accuracy as a match bullet.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by hammie

@44AMP: Good advice. Thanks for the reminder. The RCBS dies, which I just bought, have two expanders: one at .311, and one at .308. Since the Hornady .310, 123 grain SST bullet is recommended by everyone, I'm not sure how the .311 expander would work for the .310 diameter. Maybe there's some spring back in the brass. I did find several sources for FMJ's, but I've never thought an FMJ could provide the same level accuracy as a match bullet.

If your lucky and have a really good ak you might just maybe get 1 moa out of it. Generally they have been 2-4 moa guns in my experience even with good ammo. Its not something i would even consider trying to get match bullets for myself.

[stagpanther]

With a decent AK and a good powder you should be able to get 1.5 or better MOA with the 123 sst at 100 yds.

[hammie]

@stagpanther & shadow9mm: What's coming is a bolt action, howa mini 1500. Not an AK 47. (See post #1) It has a 20 inch, heavier barrel and I hope capable of some decent grouping.

I've been reading both your posts in the current thread about recommended manufacturers of AK-47's, and your guys' comments have made me toy around a little with getting an AK. Seems like a fun rifle, and I'd rather have that than an AR-15. However, there are some more needful things right now, and so I'll have to wait and see.

[Shadow9mm]

You should be able to get into moa or better with the howa. But find match bullets will be a challenge. The sst is a good bullet and close to match imho.

Aks are fun. Very different system than the ar, as well as a very different feel/handling. I just got an ak again after well over 8yrs. Prices on gun and ammo have gone way up from what they used to be.

[44 AMP]

You don't have the rifle, yet. Are you planning on competition shooting with it, shouid it prove suitable??

If not, why waste your $ and your time trying to get "match bullets" at this time.

Get the rifle, THEN make ammo, to fit what it actually is.

[hammie]

@44AMP: You're correct (as always). No rifle yet. It was in stock at the distributor, ordered and paid for at the dealer, and now waiting on the shipping time. No desire for competition. Just plan to make my own ammunition and see if the rifle can produce small groups. From what everyone says, the Hornady 123 grain SST's are the way to go. I'll try to find those hornady bullets. If I can't find those quickly, then I'll default to FMJ's.

[rc]

AA1680 is a preferred powder and don't overlook the grain Hornady 100gr XTP and other bullets for the 327 federal as plinker bullets at .312 around 2100fps.

[stagpanther]

Just my opinion--but the 7.62 x 39 is not exactly what I would call a match cartridge of choice no matter what you fire it through and it becomes something of a drop-chart challenge beyond 200 yds. Might as well get an AK and have immense fun doing it

AA1680 is a top preferred powder though I use interchangeably CFEBLK and shooter's world blackout to equally good effect.

[joneb]

"Just my opinion--but the 7.62 x 39 is not exactly what I would call a match cartridge of choice "
My Ruger American Ranch with a 16" is good for 1.5" @ 100yrds with most steel case stuff. With my reloads it is a different story, with a good bullet and powder sub moa is the norm.

[hammie]

@stagpanther: You're absolutely correct. The 7.62x39mm doesn't have the custom or reputation as a target cartridge, and I was surprised that Howa offered that chambering in a short, heavy barreled bolt action, installed in an aluminum target chassis. Then I loloked at the geometry of the short russian cartridge, and it seems to be not too different from some short, stubby bench rest cartridges. Hence, I thought, "Why not try it. It'll be something different." I'm not looking for a long range precision rifle. Just something different for use at 100 yards.

Again, you're right about 1680. (I think it's close to the old WW680.) It's often overlooked because of the limited applications but I often used it for heavy bullets in a hornet. I have a lot of 4198 and it looks like 4198 will work in the 7.62x39 russian.

What "joneb" said is interesting and encouraging. If I remember correctly, those ruger mini-30's had 0.308 grooved barrels.

[Mike / Tx]

Not sure just how much work you're willing to do in order to make up some decent ammo but I have read about using a push through die to swage down a bullet just a smidgen for a proper diameter.

There are several .311 bullets that might not be much of a chore to run through a Lee sizing die. Might have to polish a .309 die out a little but that isn't a huge chore with a drill and some smooth grit Emory cloth.

Or there is always the cast route. Lots of options there especially if your looking for a hunting bullet. Tom at Accurate Molds will make you an awesome mold to the right diameter, possibly even a as cast shooter that only need be lubed or PC'ED. I have two that I got for my 30 Carbine revolver, the 31-115H and 31-125F. Both are very accurate and hit hard. I've also run them through my little Ruger Compact in .308 up to around 2400fps and they really smack a water jug. Haven't had a chance to get a hog with one but I have no doubt that it would work.

Also the Starline brass is real good if you want to spend a little extra and it's in stock.

Hope ot works out well for you.