Hornady OAL Gauge vs Loctite

ninosdemente · October 23, 2022, 02:13 AM

Currently using the Hornady OAL gauge. I don't reload as often as some may do and don't process many rounds at any given time. The amount I do, I consider enough until I feel I need more. Plus, I didn't buy enough components to stock before prices became a problem. Shame on me.

I like to view reloading videos on YouTube and to see whether I am using them as it is intended and for learning. I saw a couple of videos where loctite was used as another alternative to the Hornady OAL gauge. I can purchase the loctite and try it myself to see what results I get as it is not out of reach to buy. Sure am curious to see if anyone has tried it and compared it to your results from the OAL gauge (if you use it).

Loctite method seems like it's not a new method, but it is a new method for me, which I saw a video on this a few weeks ago. Does look like one may need to lookout for the loctite from "spilling" onto the rifle if too much loctite is applied. May have some other cons, but won't know until I actually try it myself. What are your thoughts/results? Thanks in advanced.

Nathan · October 23, 2022, 08:24 AM

Can you link to the locktite method? I’m not sure what it is….

I tend to follow the “wheeler” method. FINDING YOUR LANDS

I think this is a bit slower, but more repeatable and more accurate. It requires removing the firing pin and ejector from the bolt. It also helps to find a piece of brass that fits without resistance to close. Also, there is some feeling lost with hunting actions. My benchrest action just drops the handle as shown, where my W70 has just a bit of drag.

ninosdemente · October 23, 2022, 08:51 AM

Here you go Nathan, https://ultimatereloader.com/2021/10...ind-the-lands/

This one is from Impact Shooting, https://youtu.be/QC0RKTLbdeg

This video starts at 4:10

jetinteriorguy · October 24, 2022, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninosdemente

Currently using the Hornady OAL gauge. I don't reload as often as some may do and don't process many rounds at any given time. The amount I do, I consider enough until I feel I need more. Plus, I didn't buy enough components to stock before prices became a problem. Shame on me.

I like to view reloading videos on YouTube and to see whether I am using them as it is intended and for learning. I saw a couple of videos where loctite was used as another alternative to the Hornady OAL gauge. I can purchase the loctite and try it myself to see what results I get as it is not out of reach to buy. Sure am curious to see if anyone has tried it and compared it to your results from the OAL gauge (if you use it).

Loctite method seems like it's not a new method, but it is a new method for me, which I saw a video on this a few weeks ago. Does look like one may need to lookout for the loctite from "spilling" onto the rifle if too much loctite is applied. May have some other cons, but won't know until I actually try it myself. What are your thoughts/results? Thanks in advanced.

Since in the video the results for the two methods were pretty much the same, the only reason I can see for using the loctite method would be to save your money by not needing to purchase the Hornady tool plus additional cases for each caliber. Although once you do use the loctite method you’d have a ready made gauge you could use to set your seating die in the future for that particular load.

Metal god · October 25, 2022, 12:34 AM

I think the OAL gauge is the way to go and not sure why they jammed the bullet when using it . I push the bullet in to touch not jam . I think touch is more consistent because jam is based on how hard you push so that is subjective based on feel rather then an actual stop . That and starting at a jam and backing off .005 might still have you jammed if you never knew the touch measurement because your jam measurement is based nothing more then how far you pushed the bullet into the lands in the first place .

I do it different then the guys in the video because of the pushing the rod method can vairy , at least for me it does . I set the bullet as long as possible with out it falling out of the case . I then hold the red section of the OAL gauge with the gray rod touching the base of the bullet and insert the cartridge into the chamber . This results in the bullet being seated into the case once it touches/stops on the lands pushing the loose gray rod out of the gauge . I then give the gray rod a "VERY LIGHT" tap/touch to be sure it's touching the base of the bullet and the bullet is touching the lands then lock it down . I have found that method gives me the most consistent measurements . If I get the same measurement three times in a row or with in +/- .0005 I call that good and I now have my touch measurement . I then can adjust off or even jam from my touch measurement .

FrankenMauser · October 25, 2022, 09:32 AM

Loctite seems like a lot of work for something that can be achieved by slightly squishing the neck of a fired case for a quicker and easier take on the 'jam' method.

The only chamber in which this doesn't work for me, personally, is a .243 Win 'match' chamber. It is so tight that any deformation of the neck is taken back out by the chamber when the case is inserted (and, therefore, losing tension on the bullet).

ninosdemente · October 30, 2022, 01:12 PM

Thank you for the replies. I do have the Hornady tool which I use. Was curious to see those who have used this method.

RC20 · October 31, 2022, 03:55 PM

I would never use Locktite and with various other methods can't see why anyone would (or other odd substances).

What I found was the OAL gauge got you ballpark but was not particularly accrate. My brother machined a copy in steel that is better).

That said, the best for a bolt action is a sized case, seat the bullet to your best estimate or OAL measurement and try to close the bolt. If it does not close, measure the OAL (to be sure you did not move the bullet back but I never have).

You can guess how close was a bit out and you don't even start to get the bolt handle down. Bolt handle goes down but it is sticky coming out (tap with a soft handle on the bolt if needed) then you are still too long (or jammed if that is what you want)

Measure the bullet again.

Once the bolt closes with no stick on open and extract, you can nudge it around from there.

**Unclenick** · November 2, 2022, 09:05 PM

The Hornady gauge has the limitation that the caliber adapters are new cases. If you dedicate a fired case from your chamber to the tool by drilling and tapping it to 5/16-36, much of the alignment trouble abates. I believe Hornady offers a service to do this, but you can buy the tap and drill sets on Amazon. If you first resize that case the way you would do in reloading, you will get the most accurate relative position of the bullet in the case, but there will be more wobble in the fit. In that situation I place the rifle butt on the bench so the bullet is vertical and a little wiggling at the bottom makes it easier to get the bullet to find its way fully into contact with the throat. It can be helped by sizing the top two thirds of the neck only, and then expanding that with a mandrel that gives the bullet no more than a thousandth of slip fit. This both centers the bullet to avoid it hanging up on the way in, and it keeps the overall geometry a good match to the ammo you eventually want to load.

Metal god · November 2, 2022, 09:59 PM

I lucked out , the Hornady modified case is only .001 shorter then my sized cases . IMHO that’s plenty close enough and I’d likely be fine with .002 or .003 . Keeping in mind this is a reference point to measure off of . I don’t see a reason for an absolute measurement here . Does it really matter that I think I’m .020 off and I’m really .018 ? Everything I’m doing is new as it relates to a new load work up so as long as my measurements are repeatable it does not matter that my reading is x but the actual measurement is y .

Example , my comparator measures GO gauges -.010 but that is irrelevant as long as I use the same comparator on all the things being compared . Same difference with the modified case , as long as my sized cases are consistent and I always use the same modified case . All my measured jumps and or jams should be consistent.

The only time I can see that being an issue if you are looking to be just touching the lands on your loaded round . I’ve found that to be the worst place to be shooting from . I get by far my worst SD/ES if I try to just touch the lands . I’ve found jump it or jam it is going to give you best results .

mehavey · November 3, 2022, 06:30 AM

Quote:

. . . jump it or jam it . . .

You boke the code.
Be one or the other.
Don't get cute.
Burma Shave

reynolds357 · November 3, 2022, 07:04 AM

The picture method is a variation of the "smoke" method. I keep a nasty burning candle on my bench. It is so fast and easy that it's crazy.

reynolds357 · November 3, 2022, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mehavey

You boke the code.
Be one or the other.
Don't get cute.
Burma Shave

My 6 br likes barely touch it. Loose neck tension brass, long seated, final seating done by rifle when bolt closed.

Metal god · November 3, 2022, 07:57 AM

Yeah but thats really a jam all be it a light jam .

**Unclenick** · November 3, 2022, 04:07 PM

Yes. What raises pressure is the inability of gas to bypass around the bullet while more powder gets burning. You'll still get peak pressure about 20% higher than the same charge would give you with 0.030" or so off the lands.

M.G. Yep! It's all a relative comparison. If you want to know your jump, measure both the ogive and the shoulder with their different comparator inserts. It's this relationship you want to keep constant if your case headspaces on its shoulder.

markr6754 · November 12, 2022, 02:25 PM

I have to confess that I had given up on using my Hornady OAL gauge because I'm an idiot. I wasn't using the bullet comparator on the caliper, and thus, kept measure on the tip, getting all kinds of stupid measurements.
Thankfully, I'm a teeny bit smarter now, and realize that the whole purpose is to see where the ogive hits...the bullet tip is uninvolved in this process. Duh!
@ninosdemente That UR video was a great help to my understanding.

October 23, 2022, 02:13 AM	#1
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	Hornady OAL Gauge vs Loctite Currently using the Hornady OAL gauge. I don't reload as often as some may do and don't process many rounds at any given time. The amount I do, I consider enough until I feel I need more. Plus, I didn't buy enough components to stock before prices became a problem. Shame on me. I like to view reloading videos on YouTube and to see whether I am using them as it is intended and for learning. I saw a couple of videos where loctite was used as another alternative to the Hornady OAL gauge. I can purchase the loctite and try it myself to see what results I get as it is not out of reach to buy. Sure am curious to see if anyone has tried it and compared it to your results from the OAL gauge (if you use it). Loctite method seems like it's not a new method, but it is a new method for me, which I saw a video on this a few weeks ago. Does look like one may need to lookout for the loctite from "spilling" onto the rifle if too much loctite is applied. May have some other cons, but won't know until I actually try it myself. What are your thoughts/results? Thanks in advanced.

October 25, 2022, 12:34 AM	#5
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	I think the OAL gauge is the way to go and not sure why they jammed the bullet when using it . I push the bullet in to touch not jam . I think touch is more consistent because jam is based on how hard you push so that is subjective based on feel rather then an actual stop . That and starting at a jam and backing off .005 might still have you jammed if you never knew the touch measurement because your jam measurement is based nothing more then how far you pushed the bullet into the lands in the first place . I do it different then the guys in the video because of the pushing the rod method can vairy , at least for me it does . I set the bullet as long as possible with out it falling out of the case . I then hold the red section of the OAL gauge with the gray rod touching the base of the bullet and insert the cartridge into the chamber . This results in the bullet being seated into the case once it touches/stops on the lands pushing the loose gray rod out of the gauge . I then give the gray rod a "VERY LIGHT" tap/touch to be sure it's touching the base of the bullet and the bullet is touching the lands then lock it down . I have found that method gives me the most consistent measurements . If I get the same measurement three times in a row or with in +/- .0005 I call that good and I now have my touch measurement . I then can adjust off or even jam from my touch measurement . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

October 25, 2022, 09:32 AM	#6
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Loctite seems like a lot of work for something that can be achieved by slightly squishing the neck of a fired case for a quicker and easier take on the 'jam' method. The only chamber in which this doesn't work for me, personally, is a .243 Win 'match' chamber. It is so tight that any deformation of the neck is taken back out by the chamber when the case is inserted (and, therefore, losing tension on the bullet). __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

October 31, 2022, 03:55 PM	#8
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I would never use Locktite and with various other methods can't see why anyone would (or other odd substances). What I found was the OAL gauge got you ballpark but was not particularly accrate. My brother machined a copy in steel that is better). That said, the best for a bolt action is a sized case, seat the bullet to your best estimate or OAL measurement and try to close the bolt. If it does not close, measure the OAL (to be sure you did not move the bullet back but I never have). You can guess how close was a bit out and you don't even start to get the bolt handle down. Bolt handle goes down but it is sticky coming out (tap with a soft handle on the bolt if needed) then you are still too long (or jammed if that is what you want) Measure the bullet again. Once the bolt closes with no stick on open and extract, you can nudge it around from there. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

November 2, 2022, 09:05 PM	#9
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	The Hornady gauge has the limitation that the caliber adapters are new cases. If you dedicate a fired case from your chamber to the tool by drilling and tapping it to 5/16-36, much of the alignment trouble abates. I believe Hornady offers a service to do this, but you can buy the tap and drill sets on Amazon. If you first resize that case the way you would do in reloading, you will get the most accurate relative position of the bullet in the case, but there will be more wobble in the fit. In that situation I place the rifle butt on the bench so the bullet is vertical and a little wiggling at the bottom makes it easier to get the bullet to find its way fully into contact with the throat. It can be helped by sizing the top two thirds of the neck only, and then expanding that with a mandrel that gives the bullet no more than a thousandth of slip fit. This both centers the bullet to avoid it hanging up on the way in, and it keeps the overall geometry a good match to the ammo you eventually want to load. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 23, 2022, 08:24 AM	#2
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,333	Can you link to the locktite method? I’m not sure what it is…. I tend to follow the “wheeler” method. FINDING YOUR LANDS I think this is a bit slower, but more repeatable and more accurate. It requires removing the firing pin and ejector from the bolt. It also helps to find a piece of brass that fits without resistance to close. Also, there is some feeling lost with hunting actions. My benchrest action just drops the handle as shown, where my W70 has just a bit of drag.

October 23, 2022, 08:51 AM	#3
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	Here you go Nathan, https://ultimatereloader.com/2021/10...ind-the-lands/ This one is from Impact Shooting, https://youtu.be/QC0RKTLbdeg This video starts at 4:10

October 30, 2022, 01:12 PM	#7
ninosdemente Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2017 Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 831	Thank you for the replies. I do have the Hornady tool which I use. Was curious to see those who have used this method.

November 2, 2022, 09:59 PM	#10
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	I lucked out , the Hornady modified case is only .001 shorter then my sized cases . IMHO that’s plenty close enough and I’d likely be fine with .002 or .003 . Keeping in mind this is a reference point to measure off of . I don’t see a reason for an absolute measurement here . Does it really matter that I think I’m .020 off and I’m really .018 ? Everything I’m doing is new as it relates to a new load work up so as long as my measurements are repeatable it does not matter that my reading is x but the actual measurement is y . Example , my comparator measures GO gauges -.010 but that is irrelevant as long as I use the same comparator on all the things being compared . Same difference with the modified case , as long as my sized cases are consistent and I always use the same modified case . All my measured jumps and or jams should be consistent. The only time I can see that being an issue if you are looking to be just touching the lands on your loaded round . I’ve found that to be the worst place to be shooting from . I get by far my worst SD/ES if I try to just touch the lands . I’ve found jump it or jam it is going to give you best results . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

November 3, 2022, 07:04 AM	#12
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	The picture method is a variation of the "smoke" method. I keep a nasty burning candle on my bench. It is so fast and easy that it's crazy.

November 3, 2022, 07:57 AM	#14
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	Yeah but thats really a jam all be it a light jam . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

November 3, 2022, 04:07 PM	#15
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Yes. What raises pressure is the inability of gas to bypass around the bullet while more powder gets burning. You'll still get peak pressure about 20% higher than the same charge would give you with 0.030" or so off the lands. M.G. Yep! It's all a relative comparison. If you want to know your jump, measure both the ogive and the shoulder with their different comparator inserts. It's this relationship you want to keep constant if your case headspaces on its shoulder. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

November 12, 2022, 02:25 PM	#16
markr6754 Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2018 Location: Centerville, OH Posts: 347	I have to confess that I had given up on using my Hornady OAL gauge because I'm an idiot. I wasn't using the bullet comparator on the caliper, and thus, kept measure on the tip, getting all kinds of stupid measurements. Thankfully, I'm a teeny bit smarter now, and realize that the whole purpose is to see where the ogive hits...the bullet tip is uninvolved in this process. Duh! @ninosdemente That UR video was a great help to my understanding. __________________ “Draw me not without reason, sheath me not without honor.”