accuracy of 38s in a 357Magnum carbine?

CCCLVII · November 21, 2022, 03:09 PM

been looking at an 1873 trapper (16.25 inch barrel) for SASS. Downside is it only hold 9 rounds of 357Magnums but holds 10 rounds of 38special.

Will rounds in 38special brass loose accuracy in 357magnum chamber?

gwpercle · November 21, 2022, 03:33 PM

Not enough for most shooters to even notice ...
I've been shooting 38 specials in my 357 Ruger Blackhawk since 1973 .
38 special brass was free . A few years ago I bought 200 new Starline 357 magnum cases to test and Did a bit of testing of the old " 38 spcl not accurate in 357 chamber " thing .
I didn't see any big difference ... Same loads in 38 brass and in 357 mag . brass , I was expecting big improvement in the 357 brass ... but it didn't work out ... a few were slightly better but most were not as good as the loads in 38 brass . Firing them in the longer chamber didn't seem to matter . Powder type and charge made more of a difference .
Work up a good 38 special Cowboy Load in 38 special brass and roll with it !
Gary

**44 AMP** · November 21, 2022, 05:47 PM

IF you were to build a bench rest class rifle in .357 Magnum, you might, MIGHT, be able to find some measurable difference in accuracy between .357 Magnum and .38 Special, but I doubt it. AND, even if you did, it would ONLY apply that that one specific rifle you used.

The stories have been around probably as long as the magnum, that the "long jump" due to the longer chamber means the shorter .38 Spl must be less accurate. Nobody has yet provided any proof that is the case, beyond the possible idiosyncrasies of a specific gun.

That "long jump" is based on the difference in case length, which is 0.135".

This completely ignores the fact that while the .357 case is .135" longer than the .38 case, the difference in the (max) length of the loaded rounds is 0.040"

AND a difference of 0.040" is only a fraction of the distance the bullet has to go to reach the rifling in every revolver, and I would say it is also an insignificant difference in a rifle as well.

In a revolver or any regular lever gun chambered in .357 Magnum, shooting .38 specials has never resulted in any SIGNIFICANT difference in accuracy that I've ever experienced or heard of.

IF someone claims the .38 special, fired in a .357 Magnum chamber is less accurate because the .38 Special is shorter, I'd ask them to prove it.
I'd be willing to make a wager they cannot.

Hellgate · November 21, 2022, 07:38 PM

I would bet that 90% of the SASS members shooting .357 chambered rifles and pistols in cowboy matches are shooting 38 Specials. Some of them are shooting multiple thousands of rounds a year. I haven't heard of them complaining of getting a fouling ring/buildup or erosion in that last bit of extra chamber. The only reason I shoot .357 in my rifles is so I can get more Holy Black or sub powder into the case to get a little more umph for the occasional knockdown.

As to accuracy concerns: Have you noticed how close the targets have migrated toward the firing line? Geeze, you used to have to AIM (at least back in 1992 when I started). The bullets could be keyholing and you could still shoot a clean match at today's ranges. So don't fret any difference in accuracy unless you are considering the side matches like pistol caliber long range.

Mk VII · November 26, 2022, 05:51 PM

I've been shooting .38's in a Rossi for years, and the open sight is a bigger handicap than the amount of freebore.

rclark · November 27, 2022, 02:21 PM

From what I've seen of SASS (on-line as I don't participate) you could have a smooth bore to hit most of the targets

. Speed seems to be more important than shooting tight groups. I guess I am a 'little' surprised that they allow cartridges that didn't exist in the middle to late 1800s too. Not saying it still wouldn't be fun (which I think is the idea)!

As said above shooting .38s shouldn't make enough difference in a .357 to matter. Reloading, I just use .357 cases and don't bother with .38s. Same with .44 Magnum.

Hawg · November 28, 2022, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellgate

I would bet that 90% of the SASS members shooting .357 chambered rifles and pistols in cowboy matches are shooting 38 Specials.

Magnums are allowed in CAS IF they're loaded with black powder or to black powder levels.

November 21, 2022, 03:09 PM	#1
CCCLVII Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2012 Location: Idaho Posts: 432	accuracy of 38s in a 357Magnum carbine? been looking at an 1873 trapper (16.25 inch barrel) for SASS. Downside is it only hold 9 rounds of 357Magnums but holds 10 rounds of 38special. Will rounds in 38special brass loose accuracy in 357magnum chamber? __________________ Always looking for a good hunt! Last edited by CCCLVII; November 21, 2022 at 03:44 PM. Reason: added an "S" to round

November 21, 2022, 05:47 PM	#3
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,794	IF you were to build a bench rest class rifle in .357 Magnum, you might, MIGHT, be able to find some measurable difference in accuracy between .357 Magnum and .38 Special, but I doubt it. AND, even if you did, it would ONLY apply that that one specific rifle you used. The stories have been around probably as long as the magnum, that the "long jump" due to the longer chamber means the shorter .38 Spl must be less accurate. Nobody has yet provided any proof that is the case, beyond the possible idiosyncrasies of a specific gun. That "long jump" is based on the difference in case length, which is 0.135". This completely ignores the fact that while the .357 case is .135" longer than the .38 case, the difference in the (max) length of the loaded rounds is 0.040" AND a difference of 0.040" is only a fraction of the distance the bullet has to go to reach the rifling in every revolver, and I would say it is also an insignificant difference in a rifle as well. In a revolver or any regular lever gun chambered in .357 Magnum, shooting .38 specials has never resulted in any SIGNIFICANT difference in accuracy that I've ever experienced or heard of. IF someone claims the .38 special, fired in a .357 Magnum chamber is less accurate because the .38 Special is shorter, I'd ask them to prove it. I'd be willing to make a wager they cannot. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 21, 2022, 07:38 PM	#4
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	I would bet that 90% of the SASS members shooting .357 chambered rifles and pistols in cowboy matches are shooting 38 Specials. Some of them are shooting multiple thousands of rounds a year. I haven't heard of them complaining of getting a fouling ring/buildup or erosion in that last bit of extra chamber. The only reason I shoot .357 in my rifles is so I can get more Holy Black or sub powder into the case to get a little more umph for the occasional knockdown. As to accuracy concerns: Have you noticed how close the targets have migrated toward the firing line? Geeze, you used to have to AIM (at least back in 1992 when I started). The bullets could be keyholing and you could still shoot a clean match at today's ranges. So don't fret any difference in accuracy unless you are considering the side matches like pistol caliber long range. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

November 27, 2022, 02:21 PM	#6
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,618	From what I've seen of SASS (on-line as I don't participate) you could have a smooth bore to hit most of the targets . Speed seems to be more important than shooting tight groups. I guess I am a 'little' surprised that they allow cartridges that didn't exist in the middle to late 1800s too. Not saying it still wouldn't be fun (which I think is the idea)! As said above shooting .38s shouldn't make enough difference in a .357 to matter. Reloading, I just use .357 cases and don't bother with .38s. Same with .44 Magnum. __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.

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November 21, 2022, 03:33 PM	#2
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,748	Not enough for most shooters to even notice ... I've been shooting 38 specials in my 357 Ruger Blackhawk since 1973 . 38 special brass was free . A few years ago I bought 200 new Starline 357 magnum cases to test and Did a bit of testing of the old " 38 spcl not accurate in 357 chamber " thing . I didn't see any big difference ... Same loads in 38 brass and in 357 mag . brass , I was expecting big improvement in the 357 brass ... but it didn't work out ... a few were slightly better but most were not as good as the loads in 38 brass . Firing them in the longer chamber didn't seem to matter . Powder type and charge made more of a difference . Work up a good 38 special Cowboy Load in 38 special brass and roll with it ! Gary

November 26, 2022, 05:51 PM	#5
Mk VII Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2000 Location: England Posts: 455	I've been shooting .38's in a Rossi for years, and the open sight is a bigger handicap than the amount of freebore.