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Old June 8, 2017, 08:50 PM   #1
Rockrivr1
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What 8x57 / 8mm Mauser Ammo for K98?

I'm in the process of trying to find some decent 8x57 / 8mm Mauser that will be used in a 1943 K98 and I'm seeing a ton of different options being listed. Many, like early Yugo is hard to find while others like PPU is readily available. I've also seen some Romanian steel cased for sale. Not sure if steel cased ammo is really what I should be shooting out of a K98.

For those that have early model 8mm Mausers, what is your preferred ammo and what should I stay away from like the plague?

Thanks
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Old June 9, 2017, 12:05 AM   #2
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I have a pre-war K98 from one of smaller production German factories and have shot the PPU. I would not shoot steel cased ammo because I will not take a chance on an unknown. I will spin the wheel on recent vintage good factory made ammo or my handloads, nothing else.
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Old June 9, 2017, 07:32 AM   #3
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Thanks HM. I'll be getting the rifle in a few days and will pick up a few boxes of the PPU. Interesting as I was reading that German 8mm ammo during the war was basically steel cased in many instances as well, so I was thinking the Romanian would be an option. Though it is fairly old production. Think 1970s.
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Old June 9, 2017, 07:49 AM   #4
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k98

I have a k98 circa 1942 that I shot for many years with Remington ammo as well as brass-cased, steel bullets and experienced no problems.

I eventually loaded for the 8mm using Norma brass and Remington bullets.
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Old June 9, 2017, 10:33 AM   #5
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The days of decent, cheap milsurp 8mm ammo are GONE.

The days of cheap milsurp 8mm ammo are just about gone, if not already.

If you can find a quantity of cheap milsurp ammo, snap it up, its almost all gone, and won't ever be coming back.

I have a few boxes of 1939 German ammo, and, interestingly its STEEL cased. Dark green color cases, magnet sticks to them. I know the Germans used both brass and steel cases, during the war, and I find it interesting that apparently they began producing steel cased 8mm (at least) BEFORE wartime demands "forced" the use of steel cases.

This ammo "ain't fer shootin', its just fer lookin at."

Have a few bandoliers of Turkish stuff (mfg date unknown) that is brass cased.
Its my emergency use only stuff. IF I ever have to "issue" out one of my 8mms to arm a friend/neighbor in an emergency, a bandolier of that stuff will go with it.

If you just want something that goes bang, steel cased works, so does any milsurp, use whatever you can find. Expect Berdan CORROSIVE priming.

If you want reloadable brass, Norma makes fine quality sporting ammo, (at "fine quality prices -not cheap). Remington makes good ammo, though their 8mm Mauser is considered underloaded by European standards, the brass is "finest kind". Again, not cheap, but in line with comparable sporting ammo prices.

When you get it, have your rifle checked over by a competent gunsmith, for both mechanical condition and headspace. One thing to be aware of (if you aren't, already) military Mausers generally were not made to be single loaded directly into the chamber. Unlike our 1903 Springfield, (with its magazine cutoff), where dropping a round in the chamber and closing the bolt on it is ok, with the majority of K98 Mausers, this is a BAD IDEA.

Generally 98 Mausers lack the relief cut that allows the extractor to snap over the rim of a chambered case without risk. You CAN do it, and you probably will get away with it for a while, but odds are high you will break the extractor at some point.

Feed from the magazine, only, and all will be well.

Some 98s have had the needed modification to allow single loading the chamber directly. Often sporters, or sporterized 98s have had this done. Unless you know, for certain, load the chamber from the magazine, only.

I have an S/37 Kar98k, a VZ 24, and a Yugo 48, all in GI trim. Have had a lot of 98s sporterized over the years, in calibers ranging from .22-250 to .458 Win Mag. They are tanks, but even tanks can be broken if driven incorrectly.

Seriously consider reloading, if you want to shoot them a bit. Good commercial reloadable 8mm brass is a bit spendy, but lasts a long time.
alternately, cases can be formed from .30-06 brass. A little bit of work, but if you have, or can get GI .30-06 brass cheaply, its an option.

Good Luck on the ammo, and enjoy your Mauser!
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Old June 9, 2017, 11:36 AM   #6
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8x57 and 8mm Mauser are the same thing.
You have to try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo your rifle shoots best. The price of said ammo means nothing.
Personally, I wouldn't use any steel cased ammo of any brand in any of my rifles. Isn't reloadable and is low end accuracy wise.
The days of any kind of decent, cheap milsurp ammo are long gone. The cheap steel cased stuff around now(like Wolf) isn't milsurp. It's commercially made by former Warsaw Pact countries.
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Old June 9, 2017, 10:02 PM   #7
James K
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"8x57 and 8mm Mauser are the same thing..."

Well, maybe. The standard 7,9 military ammunition of WWII vintage has its civilian equivalent in the 8x57JS (or 8x57IS if you prefer) with a .323" diameter bullet. The original military load, called the 8mm, and supplanted in service c. 1905, has its civilian equivalent in the 8x57J, with a .318" bullet. The latter, in military service, was usually loaded for rifle use in 5-round en-bloc clips for the Model 1888 rifle; the former was loaded in 5 round "stripper" clips for the Model 1898 rifle.

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Old June 10, 2017, 10:26 AM   #8
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As others have noted 8mm surplus ammo, what's left of it, is of questionable quality. Don't have a K98 but I do have an M48. I just buy loaded PPU ammo, reload the brass a few times and then start over with new PPU ammo.
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Old June 10, 2017, 06:36 PM   #9
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Hornady makes 8x57 JS ammo. It's not exactly cheap. $1.50-$2/round. I use this for a G98. Not sure if the k98 uses the same. There is also 8x57 JRS which is a rimmed cartridge with the rim extending past the circumference of the rest of the case. The JRS is not compatible with my G98. It will not chamber completely because of the rim.
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Old June 10, 2017, 07:54 PM   #10
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The 8x57mm JRS is rimmed for use in Drillings and double rifles. Not useable in standard bolt actions or semi/full auto designs.

Many of the popular European and British rimless/belted sporting rounds have a rimmed case version for use in break action double rifles, drillings, and vierlings. The British call them "flanged" cases.

They are uncommon in the US.
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Old June 10, 2017, 08:17 PM   #11
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I didn't even know the JRS existed until I requested a box of 8mm Mauser at my LGS and that's what they handed me. Once I pulled a round out of the box, I knew immediately that it was different. Fortunately, they took it back and have me the JS that is proper for my rifle.
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Old June 10, 2017, 10:28 PM   #12
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8x57JRS was made mainly for use in drillings as the rifle round in a three-barrel gun (the other two barrels were normally 16 gauge). Since the gun was set up to headspace the rifle round on the shoulder, the standard 8x57JS could be used in a pinch, though extraction would be unreliable at best.

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Old June 14, 2017, 01:27 PM   #13
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I've shot a fair amount of Prvi Partizan ammo in various military rifles over the years. Some of it was their so called match ammo. The match did seem to be a little more accurate than the regular ammo.

Shot some of the Prvi 8mm mauser 200 gr match ammo yesterday in a nice Persian long rifle I own. Often use this rifle when I participate in our ranges military rifle competition. Shot some Romanian and some M75 Serbian surplus 8mm ammo too. Big difference in where these three different ammos hit on my 175 yd target with the same sight hold for all of them. The new Prvi 8mm Match hit considerably lower.

As to new steel case Romanian 8mm ammo, I bought a couple boxes of it from Sportsman's Guide about two years ago to try out. Recall only around half of it would chamber in the several 8mm mausers I own. And most of those I was able to chamber required a fair amount of bolt handle pressure. In short, the cases were not to spec on where shoulder should be. Think I've seen this Romanian steel case 8mm ammo forsale elsewhere and as I recall, was in a different color/style box than was my Sportsman Guide 8mm.
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Old June 15, 2017, 11:04 AM   #14
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Quote:
For those that have early model 8mm Mausers, what is your preferred ammo
I load my own, I form 8mm57 cases from 30/06 cases, when it comes to closing the bolt there is no way I can miss because I know the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face. It is all in the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head, bump as in shoulder bump is not in my vocabulary because bump sounds too much like something that has to do with an accident al all of my dies have case body support and that includes the shoulder; meaning it is impossible to bump the shoulder back with a die that has case body support and then there are body dies, What is a body die?

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Old June 21, 2017, 10:08 PM   #15
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K98s today are valuable antiques. Don't shoot surplus ammo in them, it may be machine gun ammo, or otherwise hot loads no suitable for a rifle. Corrosion is also not nice. Your rifle is too expensive to risk on cheap ammo of questionable utility.

Just go buy some modern PPU ammo, it's brass cased, and you can reload it.

Even the Greek surplus from the 1970's is dirty. Ignore the surplus except as a collector's item if you like the box, otherwise, don't buy it.
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Old June 22, 2017, 01:01 AM   #16
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Just go buy some modern PPU ammo, it's brass cased, and you can reload it.
OR

Just go buy some modern Remington (or other US maker's) ammo, it's brass cased, and you can reload it.

If you're just enjoying some shooting with a "valuable antique" Remington 8mm Mauser is loaded a bit lighter than (most) commercial European hunting ammo, or military loads, so it provides less stress on the gun, and Remington brass is good stuff for reloading.
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Old June 22, 2017, 07:38 AM   #17
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Thanks everyone for the advice. I ended up getting a BYF 43 Russian Capture K98 and took her to the range on Tuesday to see how well she would group. I brought two different types of ammo. The bulk of it was 198gr PPU SP, which worked OK. I also had a box of Federal 170gr SP that my LGS had one box of that I bought. While the PPU was OK I was starting to think the K98 I had was just Minute of Manish. That is until I shot the Federal and the groups tightened up considerably.

These targets are at 100 yards shooting off the bench.

PPU


Federal


The POI was considerably different so I had to adjust my aim for the Federal. The low left hits were at the beginning of the string. Once I figured out the aim point I was able to tighten the group much better.

Overall I do need to tweak the sites a little as she is hitting left so I'm compensating with Kentucky windage. Forgot my front site adjustment tool that I'll bring during my next outing.

A friend has some Yugo M75 that I'm going to try and see how it works.

Thanks again.

Last edited by Rockrivr1; June 22, 2017 at 04:56 PM.
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Old June 22, 2017, 11:24 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. O'Heir
8x57 and 8mm Mauser are the same thing.
This is incorrect. The cases are the same size, and any "S-Bore" military Mauser made after 1903 when .323 became standard can shoot both, but they are absolutely not the same thing.

There are two specifications for what we call 8mm Mauser, the US SAMMI spec "8MM Mauser", which has a max pressure of 35K psi, and the CIP "8x57 IS" which has a max pressure of ~56K psi. To further muddy the waters, "8x57 IS" is often written as "8x57 JS, evidently because the Germans used a Gothic script, and the I looked like a J.

Generally, what you can get in the US is "8MM Mauser", and it the anemic SAMMI spec.

Privi Partisan actually makes both, if you look at their online catalog, they have entries for both "8MM Mauser" and "8x57 IS", with the latter having a higher velocity for the same bullet. For example, the "8x57" IS 198 gr FMJ is 2425 FPS, (essentially the 1934+ s.S. Patrone military load), but the "8MM Mauser" 198 gr FMJ is only 2180 FPS. Naturally, they only sell the wimpy stuff in the US. To further confuse things, some vendors put the European CIP specs in their catalog but ship the SAMMI stuff, pretty sure it was Cheaper than Dirt, been a while.

Hornady and Nosler seem to be the only US folks making "real" 8x57 ammo, Hornady has two options, a 195 hunting bullet and a 196 gr match, both @ 2500 FPS, which is pretty close to the original military load.

Wolf Gold is a decent hunting bullet made by Privi and loaded to 8x57 IS specs, 196 gr SP @ 2461 fps, but I haven't seen it around in a while.

Nosler has a 200gr AccuBond or Partition at 2475 fps, and a 180gr Ballistic tip at 2600 FPS, but they are really proud of them, at about $2.50 per round.

Seller & Belot and Norma both make a few 196 loads at ~2600 FPS, but availability is spotty, and while the price on the S&B is decent, the Norma stuff is up in the $2.50/round neighborhood.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffmanite
Big difference in where these three different ammos hit on my 175 yd target with the same sight hold for all of them. The new Prvi 8mm Match hit considerably lower.
Not surprising, considering how low powered it is compared to the military stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilimanjaro
K98s today are valuable antiques. Don't shoot surplus ammo in them, it may be machine gun ammo, or otherwise hot loads no suitable for a rifle.
Never heard of "Machine gun ammo" in 8X57. The Turkish is pretty hot, but pretty much any other should be fine. Romanian and Yugo are probably the most likely to be available, both are quite good, although the Yugo from some years can have hard primers, that may need a second hit.

It is important to differentiate between Romanian Surplus, and the new production Romanian on the market currently. The new stuff has a reputation for being out of spec, slightly over sized. I know a guy with a MG34 that won't chamber it, but the same ammo works/runs fine in a buddies MG42.

I would start buying a box, make sure it works. It appears to be sold through a few channels, "Hot Shot" (Hot Shot is a Century brand I believe), it is also available from Midway as "PW Arms" and from the arseholes at Sportsmans Guide unbranded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilimanjaro
Corrosion is also not nice. Your rifle is too expensive to risk on cheap ammo of questionable utility.
Some people seem to think that "corrosive" primed ammo is caustic and will damage the gun, and this is not true. It is only corrosive because of salts in the priming compound, which will attract water, and therefore lead to rust if the salts are not removed. All this means, is if you shoot corrosive ammo, you just need to clean the gun shortly thereafter. You can clean at the range if you want, but it is not necessary. Just clean it before the end of the day and you will probably my be fine.

I live in the desert, with so little humidity here, I could probably get away with waiting a few days (weeks?) but I never leave it that long.

In reality, every round fired through almost all military surplus rifles up to the point they ended up in the hands of a collector, was corrosive.

All you need to do it remove the salts, and that is really easy, as salt is water soluble. I pour hot water down the barrel, but a wet patch or two will also work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockrivr1
These targets are at 100 yards shooting off the bench.
Not bad.

There are also some things that can be done to a K98k to improve accuracy, such floating the barrel under the handguard, clearance around the bayonet lug and front band, shimming the action if necessary, clearance between the magazine body and the receiver.

Covered in detail here:

http://www.mausershooters.org/k98k/SC_tips2.html#bed

and here:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...an-capture-98k

Even after doing all that, you still may find your rifle likes one load over another, sometimes significantly so. This is a Soviet capture "AR" code from 1942, the group on the left is commercial Privi Partizan, and is similar to how it shot with both Yugo and Czech surplus ammo. I was about to give up on it, when just for the hell of it, I tried some reloads I had worked up for a different rifle (100 Yards, from the bench with a "Scout" scope):

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Old June 22, 2017, 10:46 PM   #19
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The PMC AMMO was the most accurate but the s&b @ pmc had power.

What's the 8mm surplus AMMO worth today per box?
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Old June 23, 2017, 11:03 PM   #20
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Be warned that almost all WWII ammo is corrosive primed. One exception is German ammo with a box label showing "zdh* 38", which is non-corrosive. Most will show "zdh 88" which is corrosive.

*zdh stands for "zundhutchen", which means "primer."

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Old June 24, 2017, 01:10 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBill
The PMC AMMO was the most accurate but the s&b @ pmc had power.
I didn't know PMC Made 8mm Mauser ammo. Never seen it, and they don't list it on their site. Where did you get it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBill
What's the 8mm surplus AMMO worth today per box?
Hard to say, simply because it has been out of the regular import channels for a long time. All I see lately, is the Yugo M75 sniper ammo, for about 55¢ per round before shipping.

https://rguns.net/shop/yugo-7-92-8mm...5-sniper-ammo/

For that price you may as well get Commercial Privi Partizan for a couple bucks more, and at least you get reloadable brass out of the deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James K
Be warned that almost all WWII ammo is corrosive primed. One exception is German ammo with a box label showing "zdh* 38", which is non-corrosive. Most will show "zdh 88" which is corrosive.
The same can be said for pretty much all surplus ammo. There are a few exceptions, US ammo made after about 1953 (although some earlier), 6.5 Mauser from Sweden, 7.5x55 from the Swiss, .30-06 and .303 from Canada, and a couple others.

Just about everything else is corrosive, which really isn't a big deal, all it means is you have to clean out the salts after you shoot. I use hot water (turkey baster), followed by a liberal spray with WD40 (and a couple patches) to get rid of the water, and CLP (and a more couple patches) to protect the bore. The whole process takes about a minute.
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Old June 28, 2017, 08:22 PM   #22
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Forget shooting surplus ammo, the K98 has become a valuable antique and there are too many crates of machine gun ammo, or dirty ComBloc, out there to risk your action or barrel on, let alone corrosive ammo.

Buy some good Serbian PPU ammo, it's brass cased and reloadable. You'll thank yourself later.
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Old June 29, 2017, 12:43 PM   #23
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1970s Romanian is light ball which doesn't match the K98 iron sights that are setup for heavy ball. The Romanian surplus is reliable.
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Old June 29, 2017, 03:23 PM   #24
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Seller & Belot and Norma both make a few 196 loads at ~2600 FPS, but availability is spotty, and while the price on the S&B is decent, the Norma stuff is up in the $2.50/round neighborhood.
stay away from S&B ammo it is practically worthless

so frekkin uneven it is not even funny, I have had troubles in several calibres with it

and I see people having problem with that brand of ammo all the time

people can't even close their bolts, I have seen it in numerous rifles of different makes
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Old June 29, 2017, 06:15 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kilimanjaro
machine gun ammo
You have mentioned that twice now. I am aware of 9mm Luger and some varieties of 7.62×25mm that were made for submachineguns which is hotter, but I have never heard of any such thing in 8MM Mauser.

The Germans certainly didn't make any, all their ammo types are well documented.
http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/ge...mmunition.html

And quite frankly, these days you are extremely unlikely to find "crate" of any 8mm ammo.

In fact, when it comes to 8mm Machine guns, the last thing you want is "Hot" ammo. The Turkish stuff is pretty hot, and there are quite a few reports of people ruining their absurdly expensive and completely irreplaceable MG34 and MG42s by shooting it.
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