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Old February 24, 2020, 08:47 AM   #1
rep1954
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Paradox Handgun Long Gun Guidelines?

Is there a listing for Paradox guns anywhere in the ATF rules? For instance length of rifling, minimum rate of twist and depth, barrel lengths for long guns? Does a gun built so fall into a different category than other than handguns or rifles? What are the legalities of converting an existing firearm into a Paradox firearm?
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Old February 24, 2020, 09:23 AM   #2
Jim Watson
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I have never heard of BATF addressing Paradox guns.
I don't know the legalisms, but there is no official notice that I have ever heard of.

The ones brought in seem to trade freely (if you have the money) but I don't know if they are registered as rifle, shotgun, or "other."
Consider that there are fully rifled shotguns, pretty sure they still sell as shotguns, and there is nothing mechanical or legal to keep you from swapping barrels on a pump gun.

There are rifled choke tubes to give a Paradox effect, and there were at one time clamp on rifled attachments. A friend even has a rifled Cutts Compensator tube.

Maybe somebody really knowledgeable will turn up.
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Old February 24, 2020, 11:26 AM   #3
dogtown tom
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Quote:
rep1954 Is there a listing for Paradox guns anywhere in the ATF rules?
No.
Generally, firearms that can expel a shotgun shell, whether shot or slug, are considered "shotguns". There are other firearms that can expel a shotgun shell, but may not meet the definition of shotgun.

CFR 478.11
Shotgun. A weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

Having "rifling" typically does not change the classification to "destructive device".......but it could:
Destructive device. (a) Any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas (1) bomb, (2) grenade, (3) rocket having a propellant charge of more than 4 ounces, (4) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, (5) mine, or (6) device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding paragraphs of this definition; b) (any type of weapon (other than a shotgun or a shotgun shell which the Director finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes) by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, and which has any barrel with a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter; and (c) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into any destructive device described in paragraph (a) or (b) of this section and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signalling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10, United States Code; or any other device which the Director finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, is an antique, or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes.



Quote:
For instance length of rifling, minimum rate of twist and depth, barrel lengths for long guns?
There is no regulation that covers length of rifling, rate or depth of twist.
For rifles, the minimum is 16" barrel, 26", OAL.
For shotguns, 18" barrel, 26" OAL.
Anything less is NFA.


Quote:
Does a gun built so fall into a different category than other than handguns or rifles?
Yes, shotgun.


Quote:
What are the legalities of converting an existing firearm into a Paradox firearm?
Adding a barrel with rifling for use with slugs? Done every day.
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Old February 26, 2020, 06:07 PM   #4
rep1954
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Doing some more searching I found a gun on the “Bowen Classic Arms” site that is a USFA Single Action Army clone. They state that it has a smooth bore with a short intergal rifled choke and that it is a non NFA item. I know one should never assume when talking NFA but it would make sense to me that the same application could be used in barrels for rifle barrels as short as 16”.
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Old February 26, 2020, 09:18 PM   #5
dogtown tom
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Fourth one down on this page? http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/gallery.html
Thats not a USFA.....its the predecessor US Patent Firearms.

And the description:
Quote:
44 Paradox SAA
Pawnee Bill didn’t break all of those little glass balls with bullets. Instead, exhibition shooters riding in wild west shows fired small shot cartridges in Colt revolvers fitted with choked, smooth-bore barrels. Such guns would be classified as sawed-off shotguns today and taxed accordingly.

This SAA model utilizes the English “ball and shot” rifling system devised by Colonel Vincent Fosbery and popularized by Holland &Holland under their ‘Paradox’ trade name. The barrel has a rifled choke that shoots bullets exceedingly well but still produces useful shot patterns perfect for aerial trick shooting. It is also BATF legal. Like any proper gun, this US Patent Firearms revolver features a browned Damascus barrel. The receiver is color case hardened and the balance of the metal carbona blued.
"Today" it wouldn't be a "sawed off shotgun", but an Any Other Weapon. It doesn't meet the definition of Short Barreled Shotgun.
I would love to see the ATF letter that says this isn't NFA.

It's odd that the two bolded sentences contradict each other.
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Last edited by dogtown tom; February 26, 2020 at 09:28 PM.
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