Need help with shotgun ID

ordie ed · October 10, 2009, 10:00 PM

I have acquired an older double bl "Rabbit Ear" 20 ga. I've taken in down for a good cleaning and I've found the usual (blurded) stamp marks and a couple of numbers stamped on most of the main parts. I haven't found any kind of name or ID stamp other than a: "triangle with a circle inside of it with a capital T in the circle" on each barrel.

Any one seen this stamp before or have a clue of the manufacturer of the weapon?
Thanks

SDC · October 10, 2009, 10:30 PM

Can you get any pictures of the marks? It could conceivably be an older gun made by Tula, in Russia.

ordie ed · October 11, 2009, 12:46 AM

Here are three photo's of this shotgun. I'm no great photographer but I hope they might help in the ID proccess. The stamps are very faint but they can be seen. If I can do this right.

SDC · October 11, 2009, 06:01 AM

Your pictures aren't coming through; do you see any stamps inside a diamond that look like "ric"?

ordie ed · October 11, 2009, 10:12 AM

Sorry about the pictures, no idea why they didn't come through. There are no diamonds that I see.

Beside the stamped numbers is a 5 point star, a few letters here and there.

The one outstanding mark is the Triangle, with the Circle inside of it and the Capital T inside the circle. This stamp is located on the top of both barrels near the breech. There is alot of scroll work on this shotgun around the side plates, the barrel breech and the bottom of the receiver. It would seem from this work it was not a cheap gun. The stocks are in bad shape, but they have checking on the fore stock and at the hand grip, which is more rounded like a pistal handle than flat like most hand grips on todays guns.

Harley Nolden · October 11, 2009, 11:55 AM

The five point star with a coupe of letters indicates to me that it is French. However these marks indicate proof for rifles not shotguns.

1. Take a #2 graphite pencil and color over the markings. This will allow you to read them more clearly.

2. Make your photos or the shotgun PDF or jpeg.

Mr Harley

SDC · October 11, 2009, 12:29 PM

Do these markings look like this?

This is the logo of Russia's Tulsky Oruzheiny Zavod ("Tula Weapons Factory") and is commonly seen on the tops of the barrels of their side by sides.

ordie ed · October 11, 2009, 03:10 PM

Mr. Harley, thanks for the info on the gun and photo's. The pix were in Jpeg. format but they didn't come out on the web page. I'll try to work on that.

SDC, Bingo!! that is the stamp on both barrels. So this would indicate that the shotgun is Russian made. Do you know if there is a website for research on these weapons?

Thanks for all the help from you both.

SDC · October 11, 2009, 06:50 PM

There are a couple of websites, but they're not much use to you unless you speak/read Russian; from what I can see, you either have a TOZ-B (built from 1902-1957, with breaks for WW1, the Civil War, and WW2; see http://www.hunt4u.ru/model_b.htm ), or the TOZ-BM, which is a modified/strengthened version of the B, built after 1957 (see http://www.hunt4u.ru/toz-bm.htm ). I hope this helps.

ordie ed · October 11, 2009, 10:13 PM

SDC, I totally agree that this is either a Model B or BM. After looking at the links you sent. From the pictures and the ruff discription, it's hard to tell which, but it is one of them for sure.
Now I need to see if I can find some place to get some parts from. As I said the stock is in sad shape and I may not be able to clean up some of the other parts, but now that I have a clue as to the maker I may have a better chace of getting this weapon back in shape.

Thanks again for all your help.

October 10, 2009, 10:00 PM	#1
ordie ed Junior Member Join Date: October 10, 2009 Location: SC Posts: 5	Need help with shotgun ID I have acquired an older double bl "Rabbit Ear" 20 ga. I've taken in down for a good cleaning and I've found the usual (blurded) stamp marks and a couple of numbers stamped on most of the main parts. I haven't found any kind of name or ID stamp other than a: "triangle with a circle inside of it with a capital T in the circle" on each barrel. Any one seen this stamp before or have a clue of the manufacturer of the weapon? Thanks

October 11, 2009, 12:46 AM	#3
ordie ed Junior Member Join Date: October 10, 2009 Location: SC Posts: 5	Pix of unkown shotgun Here are three photo's of this shotgun. I'm no great photographer but I hope they might help in the ID proccess. The stamps are very faint but they can be seen. If I can do this right.

October 11, 2009, 06:01 AM	#4
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	Your pictures aren't coming through; do you see any stamps inside a diamond that look like "ric"? __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

October 11, 2009, 10:12 AM	#5
ordie ed Junior Member Join Date: October 10, 2009 Location: SC Posts: 5	ID stamps Sorry about the pictures, no idea why they didn't come through. There are no diamonds that I see. Beside the stamped numbers is a 5 point star, a few letters here and there. The one outstanding mark is the Triangle, with the Circle inside of it and the Capital T inside the circle. This stamp is located on the top of both barrels near the breech. There is alot of scroll work on this shotgun around the side plates, the barrel breech and the bottom of the receiver. It would seem from this work it was not a cheap gun. The stocks are in bad shape, but they have checking on the fore stock and at the hand grip, which is more rounded like a pistal handle than flat like most hand grips on todays guns.

October 11, 2009, 12:29 PM	#7
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	Do these markings look like this? This is the logo of Russia's Tulsky Oruzheiny Zavod ("Tula Weapons Factory") and is commonly seen on the tops of the barrels of their side by sides. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

October 10, 2009, 10:30 PM	#2
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	Can you get any pictures of the marks? It could conceivably be an older gun made by Tula, in Russia. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

October 11, 2009, 11:55 AM	#6
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	The five point star with a coupe of letters indicates to me that it is French. However these marks indicate proof for rifles not shotguns. 1. Take a #2 graphite pencil and color over the markings. This will allow you to read them more clearly. 2. Make your photos or the shotgun PDF or jpeg. Mr Harley

October 11, 2009, 03:10 PM	#8
ordie ed Junior Member Join Date: October 10, 2009 Location: SC Posts: 5	Shotgun ID Mr. Harley, thanks for the info on the gun and photo's. The pix were in Jpeg. format but they didn't come out on the web page. I'll try to work on that. SDC, Bingo!! that is the stamp on both barrels. So this would indicate that the shotgun is Russian made. Do you know if there is a website for research on these weapons? Thanks for all the help from you both.

October 11, 2009, 06:50 PM	#9
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	There are a couple of websites, but they're not much use to you unless you speak/read Russian; from what I can see, you either have a TOZ-B (built from 1902-1957, with breaks for WW1, the Civil War, and WW2; see http://www.hunt4u.ru/model_b.htm ), or the TOZ-BM, which is a modified/strengthened version of the B, built after 1957 (see http://www.hunt4u.ru/toz-bm.htm ). I hope this helps. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

October 11, 2009, 10:13 PM	#10
ordie ed Junior Member Join Date: October 10, 2009 Location: SC Posts: 5	Shotgun ID SDC, I totally agree that this is either a Model B or BM. After looking at the links you sent. From the pictures and the ruff discription, it's hard to tell which, but it is one of them for sure. Now I need to see if I can find some place to get some parts from. As I said the stock is in sad shape and I may not be able to clean up some of the other parts, but now that I have a clue as to the maker I may have a better chace of getting this weapon back in shape. Thanks again for all your help.