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Old April 8, 2005, 10:52 PM   #1
Travis Bickle
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Another Scenario. What Would You Do?

You are driving a car, you have the right of way, make a turn in front of this guy, who mistakenly thinks you took his right of way. He gets all pissed at you and it becomes obvious he is chasing you. You give it the gas, but can't lose him. You go for your cellphone, and it does not work. You would drive to the nearest police station, but you are unfamiliar with the area. He continues to chase you through parking lots, through traffic lights, tailgating at times, but never ramming. Looking in your mirror, you can see he is HIGHLY pissed and looks VERY menacing. You are packing. What is your next move?

This happened to me a couple of years ago, all except the packing part (my CCW should be ready any day now).

What actually ended up happening was, I ran this stop light, but my agressor did not. I found out why about twenty yards further: a cop car was at the other side of the light. He must have seen it, although I did not until I passed him. I just floored it and made a couple of judicious turns and it was done.

It was a chase, in a congested area, and was dangerous, and it did not seem that I would be able to lose him. If I was packing, I'm not sure what would have happened. But because an armed defense was not an option, it was not an option. I have to admit, I may have been sorely tempted to open a window, stop, hop out and take an attack stance with my revolver behind my car door.

I think I have a better option, which I will share once I get some other thoughts. But I'm not sure, which is why I'm asking.
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Old April 9, 2005, 12:08 AM   #2
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Okay, you can delete all most all of your scenario. Why the guy is chasing you and whether or not you are packing is not relevant.

What is your next move? Simple. You keep driving and endeavor to drive such that you do not have to physically stop. Do not drive overly fast or unsafely if the guy isn't actually doing harm to you or your vehicle. Turn on all your headlights and flashers and then continually honk your horm as you drive. This will draw attention to you and ostensibly is supposed to signify to other folks that you are in an emergency situation, not just folks, but also cops.

Being tempted to lower your window, stop, get out, and take a position behind your door in an "attack stance" with your revolver is just flat out a stupid idea. If the guy is chasing you, tailgating, etc., just how is it you will be able to stop, get out, and go all the way around your door and take up your attack position against somebody who is behind you? Remember, it is you, your revolver, and your car door (for cover) against his 2-3 ton vehicle.

Aside from stopping (making you a stationary target), getting out (leaving the safety of the vehicle), getting around and behind the door (unnecessarily exposing yourself to danger and then trying to get out of danger by hiding behind crap for cover), what is really going to suck is that he will just drive his vehicle through your door, smashing it into you and smashing you between the door and the car as it swings back on its hinges.
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Old April 9, 2005, 12:54 AM   #3
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".. I may have been sorely tempted to open a window, stop, hop out and take an attack stance with my revolver behind my car door. "

Well, I'd guess most of us have had to deal with the road rage aholes.
I choose not to be drawn into their insanity. If they want to cut me off, fine, I'll slow and let them in. If they want to tailgate me, fine I'll do whan I can to let them get in front of me. If they want to pull up next to me, give me the finger and scream, red faced in their vehicle, fine, I'll smile and be glad I'm not insane. But NEVER would I stop and invite a confrontation. I carry a weapon SOLELY for defensive purpose, NOT offensive.
Quite frankly, I find the poster's attitude and willingness to draw and confront under the stated circunstances quite troubling.
A regular poster here states: "You can afford to have a temper or you can afford to carry a gun. You CAN'T afford both."
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Old April 9, 2005, 01:00 AM   #4
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I had a similar experience...

About three years ago. I was on the highway, and this guy got really mad at me for passing him. I was driving safely, and did not cut him off or anything. He started screaming in his car (I couldn't hear him, but I could tell), pointing at me, and punching the roof of his car. Altogether, he didn't seem too mentally stable. I pulled into the slow lane to allow him to pass me, but he stayed behind me, all the while screaming, pointing, and punching his roof and dash.

I had my phone with me, but it was dead as a doornail. I didn't want to accelerate and place the lives of others in danger, and I sure didn't want to stop and confront this guy (I wasn't packing, but even if I was this would have been my LAST option). Instead, I took out my dead phone, feigned dialing 911, and held it to my ear, all the while looking intently in my rearview mirror every few seconds. I tried to make it look like I was reporting the guy to the cops. I guess it worked, because his attitude changed IMMEDIATELY. He stopped screaming and hitting his car. He dropped of my tail, and he took the next exit. I am just venturing a wild guess, but I am assuming that this guy was not a newcomer to the criminal justice system, and he probably didn't want to go back. He likely had a few warrants out for his arrest.

This wasn't as good as actually contacting the police, because I worry what this guy will do later on. However, it did de-escalate the situation. I did note his plates and called in later. The police took the report, but I never heard from them.
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Old April 9, 2005, 01:11 AM   #5
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Please think before you draw your weapon or even reach for it. Your gun should not be the first thing that comes to mind in these situations. Being safe and diffusing the event should be.
You could simply, just drive into a very public place and get out of your car and try to calmly confront the other driver. Let him block your car in with his, let the people around see his aggressive and irrational behavior (as they dial 911), let them see him do something really attack you. He will not get far and he will most likely go to jail or worse. You get to tell your story over beers. At least thats what I would do.
Staying calm and thinking through a situation is probably the best thing to do, rather than reaching for your weapon. Seriously, my opinion this scenario, reaching for your weapon should be the last freaking thing you do!!
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Old April 9, 2005, 01:26 AM   #6
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You get to tell your story over beers.
Either that or you get to be placed six feet under by your loved ones. I don't know that the best move is to pull over for this guy. I sure don't think you should get out of the car. I agree that your weapon should be your LAST resort. Maybe you should drive into a public place, but pulling over and letting the guy attack me would not be on my list of moves.
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Old April 9, 2005, 01:46 AM   #7
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Slow down, get beside him, point your weapon at him and watch him leave!
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Old April 9, 2005, 02:49 AM   #8
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univtxattorney...I didn't mean to just pull over. I suggested finding a very public place to pull over...when this scenario happened to me...I pulled into a strip mall with a Starbucks and plenty of people sipping coffee outside.
I highly doubt someone is going to kill someone else in front of 30 witness', although it does happen, it is in the minority.
After the guy blocked me in and we both got out of our cars, I calmly tried to explain that I did not see him (I accidently cut him off). He was ranting and screaming, telling me all sorts of things he was going to do to me...everyone heard him.
I told him I didn't want any everyone could hear me. He was still being unreasonable. I then asked him what he was willing to do? Attack me and go to jail? Over a traffice misunderstanding? I took 2 steps back, took a semi-defensive stance and informed him that he has already committed Assault and that I was more than capable of defending myself and would. By now, most of the people had already called the lady screamed "I just called the cops on you!", she was pointing at the other guy. He decided to get the hell outta there, but too late. Cops showed up...lotsa talk, getting stories etc. Everyone pointed to him as the calm I was and how I tried to diffuse the situation etc.
I told the cops it was no big deal to me, he was probably having a really bad day etc. I said to just inform him that he did in fact committ Assault and could be arrested...and add to that, I have been studying Martial Arts for 30+ years and that I could have taken him down in self defense. Alot more going back and laughing and joking. He apologized, said that he was in fact having a bad day. They let him drive off first...cops chatted with me a bit more...then they drove off, cause I was gonna get me some coffee. I teach self defense to women and children...the thing I tell them is to never be alone and vulnerable...if they find themselves in such a situation...go someplace VERY public. For some reason, people tend not to do anything criminal when there are dozens of potential witness about.
By the way, I did have my guns with me that day, I go to the range twice a week, so it is very common. Never once did I even consider getting my guns out.
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Old April 9, 2005, 03:02 AM   #9
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Well personally I drive a large lifted truck so in the situation you described I would wait until he was real close and lock 'em up. Then while he recovers from the airbag hopefully knocking the pi$$ out of him I will be on my way.
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Old April 9, 2005, 12:44 PM   #10
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The last choice is always a gun and it must be defensive. We all get into situations from time to time. In one case, I was so glad that I didn't have a gun as I may have been more aggressive... I am thankful that I didn't push it. It is just not worth risking your life over some [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]. People have considered me an [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] on more than one ocasion... usually, I'm asking the question? Did I screw up? If I did, I try to wave and make peace. If I didn't screw up, then I just prepare myself for whatever might come as best I can. I will not stop and confront someone which escalates the whole situation. Why bother.
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Old April 9, 2005, 12:52 PM   #11
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I have been in this situation twice. Don't let this loser ruin your day or your life. If you're going home, go home. Get out of your car and walk inside calmly and don't say a word to him. If he follows you home and attacks you for cutting him off, this guy has it coming. If you're going somewhere else, get out of your car and enter the building and let someone know what's going on if the guy gets out of his car - "Some crazy guy is following me, can you call the cops?" This takes out a lot of later quesitons.

This guy is the problem, not you - don't let him interfere in your life and let him be the one that makes mistakes. Pulling over anywhere for a confrontation is a terrible idea.
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Old April 9, 2005, 01:05 PM   #12
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A few problems here. Some of you all act like they stopped making guns when they made yours. No one even considered the possibility that he himself may have a gun. Pulling into a public place isn't the best idea but yeah sure it's a heck of a lot smarter than pulling into somewhere deserted. Aiming the gun at the guy in the through your window is a DUMB idea, ever consider he may shoot you?! Obviously this guy had a serious problem controlling his temper. I would have stayed my butt in the car and driven until he gave up or lost him as much as I could and hauled butt to a police station and gotten inside and notified everyone what was going on while I hid somewhere and let them call the cops. I certainly wouldn't slam on my brakes like someone said and let him hit me. Heck, that may piss him off more! Avoid the comfrontation, the last this I would want to deal with is some psycho! Someone was saying there is a lesser chance that he would do anything in a public place. Well as far as I'm concerned someone seemingly that crazy wouldn't care. There are lots of people out there that feel they have nothing to lose and when you get that attitude the last thing you have regarde for is yourself. They could care less what they do to other people. I woudln't base my safety on statistics and chance. Bottom line here: Keep driving and avoid as much comfrontation as possible especially eye contact!

Edit: Maxprime you were typing your response at the same time I was but I had to leave for a sec. You have some good points except the going home part. Heck no! Don't let the maniac know where you live!!! My God! Never go to your workplace or home or basically anywhere that you would normally be found. NOT a good idea. People are crazy!
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Old April 12, 2005, 11:16 AM   #13
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pretend to ignore and be alert

1. pretend to ignore him, he can't chase you if you don't run.
2. be alert. Make sure you don't loose time drawing your gun because you have to have to lift your sweater of push back your jacket. Make sure you have instant acces to your gun in case you need it. Most of these guys ged bored if you pretend to ignore them for a while. If they finally attack, be sure to have the element of surprise on your side.
3. get a better cell-phone(-contract) and call 911
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Old April 12, 2005, 11:47 AM   #14
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I had a situation sorta like this back about 10 years ago, in Houston on the freeways. It started out about 5 miles outside of the Loop on the SW Freeway (US 59), the guy chased me all the way to the Loop (I 610) where I turned north, he continued chasing me all the way to where US 290 turns off. I faked like I was going to turn NW on 290 -- I started turning and he followed me, right on my tail, and at the last second I switched back to the Loop. He was already "committed" to 290 and had to continue going that way. Anyway, that guy chased me for about 10 miles at speeds up to about 75 -- and was obviously intending to harm me (and my wife, who was also in the car) if he could. As it was, I was able to shake the guy without stopping.
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Old April 12, 2005, 12:51 PM   #15
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Car chases, gun draws, public places. What about massive carnage, civilian collateral damage etc. Opps, I thought I was still watching Ronin, not posting at TFLF's.

Here in the Washington Metro area this kind of road rage happens a lot with the traffic and pace of life.

In fact a similar incident happened to me while driving to Baltimore on the 95 freeway, I passed a guy who didnt like it and he tried to chase me down, even threatening me with a 2 footer stick he had in his car. I just smiled at him, knowing that if it came to a fight, my martial arts experience would win out over his 2 footer stick. I drove maybe slightly faster than normal, and kept my cool. He lost interest after a while.

And when it comes to mobile incidents like this, I follow the standard military protocol for ambushes.

DO NOT stop your vehicle. Keep driving.

Get to a safe zone (whether this is an area that you are familiar with or a police station etc.)

Call for help immediately (Cell phone coverage is the primary choice when picking a cell company. What use is your el-cheapo plan of $12 bucks a month when you can never use it)

Apologize to road rager (either by apology wave, or a smile) might defuse the situation.

Do not escalate the situation, by more aggressive driving, or pulling a weapon - this is probably the single worst thing you can do.

There is a multiple bang theory where if you are in a situation and you fire the first shot, if there are multiple armed folks, they will also in turn fire, either in panic or in response to your fire.

So to alleviate such scenarios, do not be the first to draw your weapon unless you are in immediate danger.

Roads are crazy out there, so be more situationally aware is the best prevention to these incidents.
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Old April 12, 2005, 12:54 PM   #16
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I just smiled at him, knowing that if it came to a fight, my martial arts experience would win out over his 2 footer stick.
"No honest man needs a handgun smaller than a canned ham."
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Old April 12, 2005, 01:08 PM   #17
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Old April 12, 2005, 09:15 PM   #18
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Back in '90, I bought a brand new Silverado and decided to take my young nephews on a break-in drive through the Laural Highlands of PA. We went a little further than I'd planned on and ended up coming back through Maryland on some desolate stretch of Interstate a little after midnight. Ours was the only vehicle westbound that I could tell, until a beat up piece of sh** white pickup with 3 rednecks came out of nowhere and right up within inches of my rear bumper. I slowed, they slowed. I took it up to 90+ and so did they. This went on for miles and there was no cell phone service in the area. I finally told the nephews that at the next exit I would pull off as close to the trees as possible, and as soon as I stop to bail out and run for the trees, and don't look back. They did as instructed and the three creeps exited their truck and started for me. I couldn't see clearly if their hands were clear or not because of their headlights, so I bailed out and came to a crouched low ready with my 4" Smith 19. Not a word was spoken but they ran back to their truck and peeled rubber getting out of there. They got the idea that I meant business... and I did. Had my nephews not been with me I probably would have continued on to someplace populated and handled it another way, but having kids with you changes the whole scenerio... and your response.
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Old April 13, 2005, 01:04 AM   #19
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Had some turkey do this to me the other year, started tailgating me. When I approached a stop sign I applied my brakes rather quickly - he impaled his radiator on my tow bar- the metal hitch of the Hayman Reece minus ball drained it of liquid in seconds imobilising him.

I did not exit the vehicle and drove straight to the nearest Police station and let them know what happened.
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Old April 13, 2005, 01:10 AM   #20
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If you're going home, go home. Get out of your car and walk inside calmly and don't say a word to him.
Sorry, but if someone is following me, the last place I go is home. I've had this happen a few times, and I normally just head to the nearest PD. Everytime so far when they realized what parking lot they just pulled into, they break off.
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Old April 13, 2005, 05:24 AM   #21
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As usual, Double Naught Spy had a very effective response.

If possible I would recommend a parking garage as a means of loosing the a-hole. After 20 minutes of loopdeloops through the garage at 10MPH he would tire of the chase. Maybe that would not be to good of an idea, somebody backing out of a parking place would cause you to stop.

How about pulling onto the interstate and doing 30MPH? I bet he won't stay behind you long then.........

Me, I'd just pull the lever that releases the roofing nails onto the road. If that doesn't work I'll try the oil slick treatment. As a last resort, I'd go to the wings and propeller, or the periscope if water was available. What kind of car do you drive anyway DNS?

edited to add: This is a good reason to keep a full tank of gas. As long as you don't have to stop, it is only a test of MPG and capacity.
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Last edited by XavierBreath; April 13, 2005 at 05:31 AM. Reason: see above.
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Old April 13, 2005, 08:24 AM   #22
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Yeah, just keep driving if possible.
I had this happen about 11 -12 yrs ago. Some guy in a yellow vette came up real fast on my tail and was way to close to me so I tapped the brakes (I didnt lock em up) so he could see my brake lights and back off and I guess he wasnt paying attention and locked up his car and fishtailed a bit and then started chasing me. I just kept driving and he kept on me but wasn't driving erractically so I thought he may have calmed down and decided to stop for the red light instead of blowing it.. He came screeching around me and in front of me to stop and jumps out cussing and heads back towards my vehicle and then I realized that I had no pistol with me, that 1 time out of 1m. He's all exposed in the street heading towards me and I figured on running him over if he kept coming so decided to try and send him a message to get him to stop & back off. He's looking right at me so I reach for my 4 o clock and pop the door slightly never taking my eyes from his...Suddenly he stops and does a couple circles in the street while still cussing but headed back towards his vette and gets back in. About the time his door snaps shut a cop rounded the curve and stopped at the opposing light. We all drove calmly away thank God. The two things I learned that day is tapping the brakes may not be the best way to get someone off your tail, and never NEVER leave home without it. Not that I would have handled it differently if I had my pistol that day, just that it could have went down differently and I should have had it. Too many variables mean have more options available.
I drive a lot more defensively since then and when nutjobs follow too close or whatnot, I just tell myself that maybe he's trying to get home to his wife in labor or something and get out of their way so he can get home to his wife etc and no road rage incident will occur. We live and learn.
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Old April 13, 2005, 08:32 AM   #23
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1. DONT stop, dont exit the vehicle
2. While being persued, gather details about the vehicle, idiot, etc for the call to PD
3. Get a good cell phone & car charger
I like the idea of impaling the jerks car on the trailer hitch. The 8"drop hanging out of the back of my F350 outta work. but would probably get you sued.
When we travel to the city I have a rule:
1. I drive , (wife is too busy trying to find her radio station.)
2.Never pull up closer than 1 to 1//2 car lengths to the car in front. That way if someone approaches or rams from the rear, you have an exit.
3.If someone approaches the car on foot everyone hits the floorboards
4. .45 is close by
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Old April 13, 2005, 10:12 AM   #24
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1969 or 70 headed home late at night, 3 kids sleeping in the back seat, trunk loaded down with extra stuff so my dims were a bit high, caught up with another car, and couldn't pass because of an oncoming car, passed as soon as possible.
The other car pulled right up on my bumper, so I kicked it a little more, he stayed right there up to 90, so I slowed down to let him get around 15 mph, but he stayed right there, back to 65 still right there.
With my wife, and kids in the car I told my wife that's enough of this Bull, I stuck my Ruger .22 auto out the window, which caused him to test his brakes, and remember previous engagements I guess, nowdays it would get me a trip to the hooskow, but that was a world away.
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Old April 13, 2005, 10:29 PM   #25
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I'm usually the guy that gets cut off and I usually just bitch to myself about the guy/broad. I have once been followed closely with some guys wanting trouble...and got it. Could have been worse for them, but I guess they just didn't have killing in their hearts that day, I , on the other hand was going through some very bad times and didn't quite care about the consequences. If you decide to take this unwise action be sure to have sufficient firepower (223,mutiple magazines) and be willing to, or uncaring, about what comes after. And be sure, despite your frame of mind, that at least your opponents are really deserving and are of no loss to anyone. Fairly easy to decide this.
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