One weapon on a plane they didn't think about...

Dave3006 · January 26, 2002, 09:36 PM

When I was flying a couple days ago, I went to the bathroom when the pilot turned off the fasten seatbelts light. It occured to me how easy it would be to scratch and then break apart the mirror with a diamond ring. Wrap the glass in a rag at one end and you have yourself a weapon.

I guess they haven't thought of everything.

Coronach · January 26, 2002, 10:22 PM

I have no idea if it is easy or not to cut glass with a diamond (old wive's tale?) but you could just smash it with any hard object and have the same effect.

Mike

boris_01 · January 27, 2002, 07:10 AM

Shhhh! You may give someone ideas. Terrorist or Airline industry. Lord knows we need it a little more difficult as it is.

Hkmp5sd · January 27, 2002, 08:43 AM

The availability of weapons to hijack an aircraft is endless. Many common, everyday items can be used as a weapon.

One scenerio I've wondered if they have considered is to simply kidnap the pilots and/or co-pilots family and have your buddy terrorists hold them at gunpoint. Then use them as leverage to control the plane. Just hand the pilot a cellphone with his wife or daughter on the line. Not even turning the cockpit into Fort Knox would prevent it.

riddleofsteel · January 27, 2002, 11:05 AM

SHHHHHH

These topics are not good to talk about online

Sick people have enough ideas on thier own.

Dave3006 · January 27, 2002, 05:15 PM

If I can think of it, they can think of it. Believe me, they are not online right now trying to get ideas. It is way beyond that.

Art Eatman · January 27, 2002, 06:18 PM

What folks don't seem to realize is that the whole psychology of air travel has changed. That is, nobody will believe a would-be hijacker who claims that if everybody will just be good little sheeple, all will turn out okay.

Forget it.

A buddy of mine had occasion to fly, sometime back in October. He reported that all the women sat by the windows; the men on the aisles, watching every move by anybody.

Forget doing any good with any hand weapon. Blankets/pillows for a "knife-man", and an all-out charge and swarm. The odds are that against a handgun, the attitude will be "Let's roll!"

The only airline terminal security which has any meaning, now, is searching for explosives. The rest of it is just feel-good, infantile pap.

Art

Hemicuda · January 27, 2002, 07:33 PM

10 to 1 odds that it's tempered glass, ands when you shatter it, all you'll get is a billion small pieces anyway...

striderteen · January 28, 2002, 01:18 PM

No way...any terrorist moves on a plane in the next year or so, he's doing DOWN. Even with a gun, he's not going to be able to take down more than a dozen at most before they get him.

Jarhead_22 · January 28, 2002, 02:32 PM

At a martial arts class I attended in the week following 9.11.01, a guest instructor taught a two hour class on using "field expedient" weapons in self defense. In addition to other things, he brought along a stack of magazines. We learned that a magazine, like American Way or Southwest Spirit, when rolled tightly can be very effectively used against a man armed with an edged weapon.

Jake 98c/11b · January 28, 2002, 02:56 PM

Feel good, infantile pap. Nicely said Art.

Kharn · January 28, 2002, 03:20 PM

Dont forget that the seat bottoms come off to act as a floatation device. Being a floatation device, it has hand straps and is also foamy, it would make a good shield against someone with a 1-2" long blade (like a box cutter). Anything more, and you could be in deep doo-doo.

Kharn

striderteen · January 28, 2002, 03:31 PM

Well, you'd get cut that much less deeply.

armedbutnotdangerous · January 28, 2002, 04:47 PM

Most airplane seatbelts come of thier mountings with a spring loaded clip.

Heavy buckle on the end of a 30 inch strap makes a pretty good weapon.

Steve.

_YoYo_ · January 28, 2002, 11:47 PM

The air marshalls are among us. If someone was to brandish a weapon, they'll take a couple to the chest. I feel safer flying now than ever.

D.W. Drang · January 29, 2002, 12:21 AM

Even after they get this fresh influx of Air Marhsalls trained and in the field...er, air... there won't be enough to put one on every flight.

BTW, I looked at the application--curiosity, I'm too old at 43--ands it looked to me lkike if you didn't wear a funny hat... Dogone it, everyone in the Army wears a funny hat now! Grrr... :barf:

If you weren't from SOCOM--SF, Ranger, Delta, SEAL, Force Recon--the only way they'd talk to you was if you had been a CI spook, or MAYBE a VIP Protection MP. Maybe.

They are really looking for Special Warriors, though...

madmike · January 29, 2002, 09:08 AM

Shoelaces...fishing line...ties...plastic...

See my articles below. I predicted the growing trend to strip-search people.

Sadly, it wasn't much of a prediction. Nor am I pleased by it.

Now, if they'd add CCW holders to the list of alphabet soup and cops who can carry...

Dave R · January 29, 2002, 09:59 AM

The power supply to your laptop would make a pretty mean blackjack.

Jake 98c/11b · January 29, 2002, 10:09 AM

DW Drang, if you saw the PSD for the generals in europe you would not add them to your list. Poorly trained hacks would be too generous I'm afraid. I have never worked that field but these guys are a bad joke and it is easy to spot bad work. They think they are untouchable because they work directly for the big boys themselves so they act as they please.

D.W. Drang · January 29, 2002, 12:13 PM

Quote:

DW Drang, if you saw the PSD for the generals in europe you would not add them to your list. Poorly trained hacks would be too generous I'm afraid. I have never worked that field but these guys are a bad joke and it is easy to spot bad work. They think they are untouchable because they work directly for the big boys themselves so they act as they please.

Hmmm, a 98C puking on MPs... Who to believe...?

The only time I ever saw Protective Services in action was during my final tour in Korea, when what's-his-name, klintooon's SecDef made a campaign stop at Cp Stanley. I saw 2, one, an older guy, who acted professionally, and another, younger guy who seemed to think he was auditioning for "COPS." IOW, a typical MP.

No up-close-and-personal time, though. (All my overseas time was in Korea--7 1/2 years!--and the ROKs get upset at the idea of GIs in plainclothes wandering around freely with guns.)

The skill sets--"KSAs: KNowledge, Skills, Abilities"--that PSD should have were definately on the list, though.

Bogie · January 31, 2002, 02:57 PM

We're spending WAY too much time/energy on airplanes/air travel.

A terrorist isn't going to be able to do diddly squat ON an airplane now...

Next attacks will likely be "car bombs" or something similar - Imagine a stolen LPG tanker, or something similar popped off in a downtown area... Not good.

Heck - look at the miles of railroad lines that are essentially undefended. And at highways - How long do you think that truckers would run, without protective cover, if random snipers started plinking at 'em... Then there are the major communication hubs around the country... And I wonder what a few .50 API (or even .30) rounds would do to the big tanks at those refineries and chemical plants...

Don't just be vigilant on airplanes - look everywhere.

Because they ARE out to get you.

baldangel · February 1, 2002, 07:42 PM

Your sock filled with a roll of quarters or a full soda can.
As mentioned before, shoestrings, rolled up magazines.
The planes fire extinguisher.
The seatbelt extentions used by the attendant for demos.
A pair of pantyhose (wiggle eyebrows).

January 26, 2002, 09:36 PM	#1
Dave3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2000 Location: Lake Forest, CA USA Posts: 493	One weapon on a plane they didn't think about... When I was flying a couple days ago, I went to the bathroom when the pilot turned off the fasten seatbelts light. It occured to me how easy it would be to scratch and then break apart the mirror with a diamond ring. Wrap the glass in a rag at one end and you have yourself a weapon. I guess they haven't thought of everything.

January 26, 2002, 10:22 PM	#2
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	I have no idea if it is easy or not to cut glass with a diamond (old wive's tale?) but you could just smash it with any hard object and have the same effect. Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

January 27, 2002, 08:43 AM	#4
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	The availability of weapons to hijack an aircraft is endless. Many common, everyday items can be used as a weapon. One scenerio I've wondered if they have considered is to simply kidnap the pilots and/or co-pilots family and have your buddy terrorists hold them at gunpoint. Then use them as leverage to control the plane. Just hand the pilot a cellphone with his wife or daughter on the line. Not even turning the cockpit into Fort Knox would prevent it. __________________ NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Safety, Personal Protection, Range Safety Officer NRA Life Member

January 27, 2002, 11:05 AM	#5
riddleofsteel Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2000 Location: above ground Posts: 1,558	SHHHHHH These topics are not good to talk about online Sick people have enough ideas on thier own. __________________ For him there was always the discipline of steel.

January 27, 2002, 07:33 PM	#8
Hemicuda Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,757	10 to 1 odds that it's tempered glass, ands when you shatter it, all you'll get is a billion small pieces anyway... __________________ Hemi. gun and car collector. Rare cars, and rarer guns.

January 27, 2002, 07:10 AM	#3
boris_01 Member Join Date: November 14, 2001 Location: N.C. Posts: 61	Shhhh! You may give someone ideas. Terrorist or Airline industry. Lord knows we need it a little more difficult as it is.

January 27, 2002, 05:15 PM	#6
Dave3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2000 Location: Lake Forest, CA USA Posts: 493	If I can think of it, they can think of it. Believe me, they are not online right now trying to get ideas. It is way beyond that.

January 27, 2002, 06:18 PM	#7
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	What folks don't seem to realize is that the whole psychology of air travel has changed. That is, nobody will believe a would-be hijacker who claims that if everybody will just be good little sheeple, all will turn out okay. Forget it. A buddy of mine had occasion to fly, sometime back in October. He reported that all the women sat by the windows; the men on the aisles, watching every move by anybody. Forget doing any good with any hand weapon. Blankets/pillows for a "knife-man", and an all-out charge and swarm. The odds are that against a handgun, the attitude will be "Let's roll!" The only airline terminal security which has any meaning, now, is searching for explosives. The rest of it is just feel-good, infantile pap. Art

January 28, 2002, 01:18 PM	#9
striderteen Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2001 Location: Pasadena, California Posts: 590	No way...any terrorist moves on a plane in the next year or so, he's doing DOWN. Even with a gun, he's not going to be able to take down more than a dozen at most before they get him.

January 28, 2002, 02:32 PM	#10
Jarhead_22 Member Join Date: September 7, 2000 Posts: 89	At a martial arts class I attended in the week following 9.11.01, a guest instructor taught a two hour class on using "field expedient" weapons in self defense. In addition to other things, he brought along a stack of magazines. We learned that a magazine, like American Way or Southwest Spirit, when rolled tightly can be very effectively used against a man armed with an edged weapon. __________________ USMC/NRA/GOA/TSRA

January 28, 2002, 02:56 PM	#11
Jake 98c/11b Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 1999 Posts: 471	Feel good, infantile pap. Nicely said Art.

January 28, 2002, 03:20 PM	#12
Kharn Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,531	Dont forget that the seat bottoms come off to act as a floatation device. Being a floatation device, it has hand straps and is also foamy, it would make a good shield against someone with a 1-2" long blade (like a box cutter). Anything more, and you could be in deep doo-doo. Kharn

January 28, 2002, 03:31 PM	#13
striderteen Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2001 Location: Pasadena, California Posts: 590	Well, you'd get cut that much less deeply.

January 28, 2002, 04:47 PM	#14
armedbutnotdangerous Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2001 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 171	Most airplane seatbelts come of thier mountings with a spring loaded clip. Heavy buckle on the end of a 30 inch strap makes a pretty good weapon. Steve. __________________ Louis L'Amour said it best!!

January 28, 2002, 11:47 PM	#15
_YoYo_ Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2000 Posts: 181	The air marshalls are among us. If someone was to brandish a weapon, they'll take a couple to the chest. I feel safer flying now than ever.

January 29, 2002, 09:08 AM	#17
madmike Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2000 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 559	Shoelaces...fishing line...ties...plastic... See my articles below. I predicted the growing trend to strip-search people. Sadly, it wasn't much of a prediction. Nor am I pleased by it. Now, if they'd add CCW holders to the list of alphabet soup and cops who can carry... __________________ FORGED IN BLOOD, (editor), Sept 2017, Baen Books THE TIDE OF BATTLE, July 2018, Baen Books http://www.MichaelZWilliamson.com http://www.SharpPointyThings.com

January 29, 2002, 09:59 AM	#18
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	The power supply to your laptop would make a pretty mean blackjack. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

January 29, 2002, 10:09 AM	#19
Jake 98c/11b Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 1999 Posts: 471	DW Drang, if you saw the PSD for the generals in europe you would not add them to your list. Poorly trained hacks would be too generous I'm afraid. I have never worked that field but these guys are a bad joke and it is easy to spot bad work. They think they are untouchable because they work directly for the big boys themselves so they act as they please.

January 31, 2002, 02:57 PM	#21
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	We're spending WAY too much time/energy on airplanes/air travel. A terrorist isn't going to be able to do diddly squat ON an airplane now... Next attacks will likely be "car bombs" or something similar - Imagine a stolen LPG tanker, or something similar popped off in a downtown area... Not good. Heck - look at the miles of railroad lines that are essentially undefended. And at highways - How long do you think that truckers would run, without protective cover, if random snipers started plinking at 'em... Then there are the major communication hubs around the country... And I wonder what a few .50 API (or even .30) rounds would do to the big tanks at those refineries and chemical plants... Don't just be vigilant on airplanes - look everywhere. Because they ARE out to get you. __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!

February 1, 2002, 07:42 PM	#22
baldangel Junior Member Join Date: August 22, 2001 Location: Lafayette, LA Posts: 8	Your sock filled with a roll of quarters or a full soda can. As mentioned before, shoestrings, rolled up magazines. The planes fire extinguisher. The seatbelt extentions used by the attendant for demos. A pair of pantyhose (wiggle eyebrows). __________________ Tony