Steel case ammo: Is it bad for chambers?

[Dfariswheel]

"Could you explain why a more tapered case has anything to do with accuracy being slightly less"

I'm not a ballistics expert so I can't explain this phenomenon.
There is a reason, and if you look, there's no accuracy ammunition made with anything but a more straight walled case.

There's also the old saw that when fired the lacquered coating on steel cases will melt and gum up the chamber.

First, why haven't the Soviet Bloc users of full-auto weapons never seen this in the trillions of rounds fired?

Second, get a lacquered case and heat it with torch. Lacquer burns but it doesn't melt.

[dogtown tom]

imashooter Don't drink the bs-flavored kool-aid. Though I don't use it "yet" in my ARs, I'd be ok with it should the need arise. Besides possible sealing issues (never seen it happen), the only possible negative is if the steel cases today are still coated with a lacquer-like substance (rust inhibitor?). This stuff, when heated well, can combine with the carbon residue making a bit of a gummy mess. Avoiding successive magazine dumps and regular cleaning will greatly minimize the anomaly. Once again, I've never seen an AR with steel cases have a problem outside of of a combat environment.

The "bs-flavored kool-aid" is right there in bold print.
The OMG! OMG! LACQUER!!! myth has been disproven for many years.

[4V50 Gary]

Like stuck cases? Unless its a Soviet design, I'd avoid them.

[rickyrick]

I’ve seen chambers that had a hard plastic like substance that formed a gummy adhesive material when hot and would cool back into a hard plastic-like substance.
I also noted that warming the chamber up facilitated easier removal of unknown substance.

I can’t profess to know the source as my experience is purely anecdotal.

In my experience with the .223 steel coated stuff, vanilla ARs and stock Mini14s handle steel ammo well it seems.
If you have some non-standard AR like a pistol with a carbine gas, or a gas system that was barely up to snuff or overpowered, you’ll probably have function issues.

Either way, you should have some plan to unstick a cartridge, whether brass or steel.

Watching people “Mortar” an AR makes me cringe, even though I’ve employed that practice myself.

[Skans]

Steel case ammo will not harm chambers in most rifles. However, bi-metal bullets (steel-covered lead) can cause a bit more wear to a barrel.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Skans has the A+ answer. I’ve shot thousands of rounds of steel case in ARs. If an AR doesn’t like steel case, it doesn’t care if it is lacquer-coated, powder-coated, Tula, Wolf, or Hornady. It could conceivably cause extractor damage; but you can buy a whole new rifle in the cost savings, let alone a new extractor.

Having said that, for me, steel case is blasting ammo only in an AR. And if the delta on price is less than or equal $30/thousand, I’ll pay the higher price for brass case ammo.

Bimetal jackets are a bigger issue than the case as the barrel is more expensive and the increase in wear more significant.

[pete2]

Spend hundreds or more for a gun and then buy junk ammo to shoot in it. I've never understood this.

[Ignition Override]

4V50Gary:
As for Soviet designs being possibly more durable...

..aren't the more popular US-made guns Also made of the highest quality steel?

Apparently even the best US-made guns use lower-quality grades of commercial steel (or just weak extractors), if one were somehow to believe most of the 'hearsay', so much anxiety reflected on the huge number of topics about this.

A gunsmith described on Perfectunion (Mini 14, 30 etc) back in 2008 how steel cases' rigidity allows more residue to collect in chambers, Around the Steel cases, mostly when the gun's owner is lazy or neglectful.

Later switching to brass-cased ammo, which (we all know) > expands <, these cases can get stuck in thick residue which has 'been allowed' to build up in chambers.

Again, avoiding freq. gun cleaning might be the only real issue here.
Stores and individuals which sell only brass-cased ammo certainly aren't going to maintain "radio silence" about steel-cased ammo........ $$$$ Imagine the disinformation being widely propagated for many years.

[Hawg]

Originally Posted by pete2

Spend hundreds or more for a gun and then buy junk ammo to shoot in it. I've never understood this.

Personally I like it because I don't have to go chasing brass all the time. I do reload so it's not used all the time but it sure is nice to empty a few mags now and then and just let the cases lay.

[Master Blaster]

Here is some WWIi historic information on the use of steel cased ammo in WWII. It from the CMP forums:

According to LG Levin H. Campbell, Jr., who should know a little something about the subject as he was Chief of Ordnance from 1942-46, wrote in December 1943: "When brass was available, we used brass. When brass became critical, Industry achieved one of the mechanical miracles of this war and made it possible for Ordnance to convert to steel. Ordnance was satisfied with the results, but now that brass is again available, and since our combat units prefer brass, we are reverting to brass.

The last statement concerned storage and use in the Pacific's climate. He also states that using steel was more expensive than brass, so switching back made economic sense, with savings estimated at $100 million for 1944 alone. To give an idea of scale, a total of $5 billion was spent during the war on the production of small arms. About 8.5 billion was spent on ammo of all sizes through the end of 1944, so $100 million is anything but small change.

The change back was allowed by the improving military situation. The German U-boat effort, which had interrupted copper imports from South America, had been tamed. If you look at a graph of small arms ammo by year, you will see that somewhere around 75% was produced by the end of 1943. By the time steel-cased carbine ammo was ready to gear up for fullscale production we were way ahead on supply, plus the troop basis was greatly reduced as we realized we simply didn't have the manpower to field as many units as we planned early

From a different source, the copper supply was so critical in 1942 that an inventory was taken of cannon tubes and bronze statuary at the Gettysburg battlefield park to estimate the weight of bronze that could be salvaged for war industry use. That's how bleak the situation was seen by those living it. Without the success we had against the submarine menace made possible by Ultra and all the antisubmarine technology we developed, it is likely even more steel cartridge development would have taken place. And it would have been built on the success referred to by Campbell. Though he doesn't break down the percentages, a significant portion of the copper savings through using steel - 50,000 tons in 1942 and 300,000 tons in 1943 - came from using steel for artillery casings. Carbine ammo was a minor consideration in all this, not because of major technical issues, but the relatively minor percentage of the overall total.

BQ97

07-25-2011, 12:03 PM

Steel cased carbine ammo was limited to stateside use solely due to concern the cases would rapidly corrode in the harsh combat environments and cause function issues with the weapons.

<O</OAt the manufacturing facilities it was used for everything but the 6000 round endurance tests and proof firing. The rational for not using steel cased ammo for the endurance tests was to conduct the tests using the same type ammo that was being used in the field. Proof rounds were such a small portion of the overall ammo requirement switching cases didn't make sense.

dontknowdiddly

07-25-2011, 02:30 PM

So not only was it spec-approved; it was used in the field...

karls42

07-25-2011, 03:46 PM

"History of Modern U.S. Military Small Arms Ammunition" Volume 2 page 43
The first lot of steel cased carbine ammo (ES-255607) was completed by Evansville in September 1943 and forwarded to APG. Aberdeen Proving Ground fired 24,000 rounds and said it compared very favorably with brass cased ammo. The U.S.M.C. fired 500,000 steel cased rounds and found it a satisfactory substitute. On October 11,1945 steel cased carbine ammo was approved for training use.

[Shadow9mm]

it will wear the gun out faster, depending on the gun and the price of the gun you might not want to. With that said I ran the numbers on an AR back when ammo prices were cheaper. I assumed (complete rough guess) half life on the barrel and bolt (5,000rnds instead of 10,000). What I found is that with the money saved buying steel cased I could replace the barrel, bolt, and buy another case of steel for the same price as shooting brass.

[Ignition Override]

Do many people mistake their "range ammo" for a different types, which are "carry ammo"?

Apparently range ammo is required to be just as reliable?

* To help identify overall handgun or rifle reliability, nobody has proposed using Russian ammo to help determine it.
Therefore, After a gun is found to be reliable, a quality gun can--then-- handle using Russian ammo. At The Range etc. Such a simple concept, or so it seems.

Apparently some people have "read this" into the topic, jumped to conclusions.

About bullets:
The "Lucky Gunner" test-- very detailed, with numerous colored charts-- found that .223 bullets from Russia accelerated bore wear. >> Google It. <<

10,000 rds. of US-made ammo using fmj lead bullets and brass cases caused approx. the same wear in Rifle A, as 6,000 rds. of Russian in Rifle B: the other AR-15.