Would you really pull the trigger?

[Cousin Pat]

Specific guns, ammo and tactics aside, how many are mentally ready to pull the trigger against a human threat in the perhaps less than one second to decide if the threat is real, if the law is on your side, if bystanders are not hit, and if you are ready to kill?

[Doc Intrepid]

Uh, how many are mentally ready to die?












Given the choice between the two, guess what?

The other dude is going down.

[leadcounsel]

I never understood why people would hesitate. It's as easy a reaction as stepping on the brakes to stop your car to avoid an accident. If there's a lethal threat you draw and shoot to stop the threat.

[stephen426]

Sorry... you're on the wrong forum to be asking that question. If anyone is not mentally ready to pull the trigger on another human, they should not carry a gun. Pulling a gun and not being ready to use it may lead to losing the weapon to the bad guy and having it used against you. Not being mentally prepared may also lead to the bad guy drawing his own weapon on you and shooting you, or reaching you with a contact weapon.

I don't believe that anyone here is blood thirsty, but pretty much everyone on here is ready to defend their life with deadly force if necessary.

[45Gunner]

Stephen426 hit the nail on the head; If you elect to carry a gun, you must be prepared to use it. If you're not prepared to shoot another human being, then it is probably best to leave that gun at home.

It is not a decision to be taken lightly and certainly a cavalier, macho attitude is not the approach. One really needs to carefully think it through and reach a very realistic decision because it may be one you will have to live with for the rest of your life.

The first time I shot another human being was in Vietnam. I was panic stricken to think that a complete stranger was going to take my life. What could he possibly have against me? It was a split second decision - kill or be killed. I lost my lunch that day...and for several days thereafter, every time the thought entered my mind. If anyone that has shot another person tells you different, they are either lying or not playing with a full deck. After a year of being in a combat zone, one becomes hardened to shooting but the realization of what has transpired never leaves, regardless of how right you are, no matter if you have the encouragement of peers, superiors, and government. You are the one that has to live it out and replay the rationalizations in your daydreams, nightmares, and vagrant thoughts.

I don't mean to attempt to scare you or persuade you not to carry as I carry every time I step out of my door and I have a gun on me or near me while inside my house. Just know that we can chat it up all day long on Forums just like this, but when you have to act, you will do so and effect the rest of your living days.

[NavyLT]

There is a difference between a human being and a scumbag.

[kraigwy]

I never understood why people would hesitate. It's as easy a reaction as stepping on the brakes to stop your car to avoid an accident. If there's a lethal threat you draw and shoot to stop the threat.

Its more common then you think.

Read ON KILLING, by Ltc Grosman

[hoytinak]

I never understood why people would hesitate.

I had a gunner on one of my deployments that it took a couple of engagements before he finally started pulling the trigger. (and this was his 4th depoyment) I watched a RPG go about a foot over his head and he still didn't shoot. Luckly the other gunners didn't hesitate and we got the guy.

[jalbuquerque]

If you are not mentally ready to pull the trigger than you should reconsider carrying a firearm.

[Lawyer Daggit]

I suggest you read Lt Col Grossman's book 'on killing', an Army Ranger, who is also a psychologist has spent a lifetime researching the subject.

His research shows that up to and the including Korean war, only 2-3 men out of every ten were prepared to kill in combat. This has increased to 90-95% in and since Vietnam due to changes in training.

I imagine more people would 'choke up' and not fire than you imagine, and it does not mean they are cowards- it is merely reflective of their backgrounds and conditioning, such as religious beliefs.

Its not something one can vote on- unless you have 'been there' you don't know.

[CRUE CAB]

Years ago, when my desire to become a police officer was cemented.
I tested for and was accepted to the Brevard County Law Enforcement Acadamy at Brevard Community College.
One of the first speakers to come in was a man named Speedy DeWitt.
Mr DeWitt had been a Brevard Co deputy sheriff for many many years and was probably in his late 50s early 60s at that point.
He was old Florida good ole boy for sure, but he posed the question as his first statement in the class.
"Are you willing to kill or die at the drop of a hat in the persuit of of your profession"?
He said if you have any hesitation on either of those points, start looking for another line of work.
That on top of being the son of a police officer/combat vet, I already knew that I was willing if need be. It was part of me from my up bringing by a man that had to make that call and thankfully lived through it.
Make clear though that I have no desire to harm another person, let alone kill them.
But it is something that must be asked of ones self every now and again. Especially if you are going to keep or carry a gun for defence.
I see alot of threads closed here when the subject comes up, not sure why.
It is a real possibility, even if you are one of those that "just keeps a baseball bat next to the bed" types. Bats can kill and kill in a much more personal manner than a gun.
I know it may sound like "blood lust" when people talk about killing. No matter how they may try to avoid it, or how they try to rationalize it.
But it must be talked about if we are to feel comfortable with the decision to arm ourselves. Because it just make come to that one day, god forbid.
Yes there are going to be downsides to it. Here in Florida not so much, but many states you get charged with a crime right off.
But the alternative could be worse. I would rather be hauled into court for killing a person looking to do my family harm, then let them do said harm and have to live with that guilt.
Sorry to run on. But that is my .02 about pulling the trigger.

[stephen426]

I am hoping that my reactions will be based on what I practice if the poop ever hits the fan. Basically, I am hoping for a smooth draw, front sight on target, and smooth trigger pull. In my opinion, those actions should be mechanical once the decision has been made that there is no other option than to shoot.

I drew on someone once but did not point it at him or shoot him. I was in my car after just having gone through a drive through late one night. The restaurant left something out so I was pulling around to go inside. There were 3 guys walking across the parking lot so I stopped to let them pass. One guy ran up to the car, put his hands on the hood, then ran towards my open window. By the time he left the front of the car and got to my window, I had already grabbed my gun from the center console. I had the gun right next to the bottom of steering wheel pointing forward, but perfectly visible to the guy. I'm not sure how I had the presence of mind not to have the gun either pointing at him or right next to the window. This would have enabled him to either push the gun down, forcing me to shoot through the door, or led to a possible gun grab. By having the gun next to the steering wheel, all I had to do was turn my wrist to be able to shoot him and left my other arm free to fend him off if needed. The guy saw the gun and came up with some stupid excuse about being drunk and not looking to cause any trouble. This occured in Gainesville, FL where UF is so it was entirely possible. In Miami, running up to somebody's window at night is a good way to get shot. I had 3 other people in the car with me and they were shocked at how quickly I was able to draw the gun. I used to occasionally practice drawing from the center console. Fortunately my practice kicked in. Had the guy had a weapon, I don't believe I would have had any hesitation on pulling the trigger.

Again I repeat, this is not about blood lust, but about self-preservation.

[N.H. Yankee]

Survival instinct isn't always enough for some people, these are the people that easily become statistics in the face of a lethal threat. No sane person wants to shoot another, but in the face of a lethal threat one has to consider who brought it to this point. I personally refuse to be a statistic, and if I didn't have that mindset I may not be here typing.

[Yankee Doodle]

"Its not something one can vote on- unless you have 'been there' you don't know."

WELL SAID. That's what training is all about. You are taught to react to the threat, but until the the whistle blows you really have no idea what you are going to do. Simply not a topic you can vote on.

[Caddy]

In my career (if all goes to plan), I will undoubtedly have to do so.

[ZeSpectre]

Can't vote on this one.

I'm not about "shoot to kill", I'm about "stopping the threat".

Or to be clear, I am aware that stopping the threat may ultimately involve the death of another human being and have considered that issue carefully but killing is not my specific goal with regards to my self defense firearms and/or strategy choices.

[CRUE CAB]

But in "one second", how do you control fire to only hope to stop the threat?
Injury and death may only be millimeters apart.

[BlueTrain]

"There is a difference in a human being and a scumbag?" That is pure rationalisation and you need a better reason than that. However, generally speaking, I think an element that will enter into any event is the fact that, most likely, it will be happening fast. Just like stepping on your brake or swerving out of the way in a traffic situation, things will happen fast in a self defense situation. But most people seem to have the natural instinct for self-preservation, though it may not manifest itself the same in every person, nor the same way every time.

If there is this natural instinct, then it stands to reason that any training or practice you may have should incorporate as best as possible one's natural reactions, instead of training to overcome your natural reactions. Mind you, that's only a general statement and not intended to take the thread in a different direction. But overall, I'd say that most people, if they were armed, would ultimately shoot if they thought--in an instant--that they really had to. The others probably wouldn't be armed in the first place.

[ronto]

Fight or flight is a natural survival instinct in all creation...If flight (avoid) is not an option, then pulling the trigger becomes automatic...I don't spend any time thinking about what I would do when faced with a "him or me" situation since I've already been programmed on what I would do by my Creator.

[CWPinSC]

When my wife wanted to carry, I asked her, "Are you mentally ready to look another human being in the eye from 5 feet away and pull the trigger on them without hesitating even a split second?" She replied, "What gun should I get?" BTW, I asked myself the same question when I decided to carry many years ago. "My life is in jeopardy" and the word "hesitation" is an oxymoron.

I believe that I, and others on this Forum, train enough so our reaction to a threat would be instinctive. When you eliminate a decision making process, you decrease your response time to a threat. You can be sure the BG won't hesitate or think about killing YOU. We do train to shoot COM to stop. In the COM are the heart, lungs, major blood vessels, and other vital organs. In the words of Drago in Rocky IV, "If he dies, he dies."

If YOUR life is threatened, how much would YOU hesitate? Where do YOU stand, Cousin Pat?

[misnomerga]

I've had a number of people ask me as a gun owner and a Christian would I shoot a person as if those two things were incompatible. I don't believe them to be but that will be a discussion for another day. My answer is much the same as the other posters. I don't want trouble but if it finds me and I have to do something I will. One example I share with folks is this; My family and I are asleep at night in the house. We hear breaking glass and entry. I gather my family in our secure room, lock the door, contact the police and basically let the intruder have the run of the house all except for where I am. If he proceeds to try and kick in the door I ratchet my shotgun. Hearing that distinctive sound should be enough of a deterrent but if he continues I have no qualms whatsoever about shooting him. I would try to avoid the stand and fight option if the flight and flee option is available but sometimes there may not be that choice.

[CRUE CAB]

The OPs poll askes for the "in one second". What would you do. Meaning you have a shoot /dont shoot move right then and there.
I have a older home, as do alot of people. So there is not a room that would take a whole lot to get into, even if the door was locked. Standard hollow wood doors.
I think the in home scenario would be if an intruder was almost right on top of you startling you out of your sleep.
Think very little seperation once your weapon is in your hand. Its pull the trigger or not and make it a fist fight.
If we are to arm ourselves, we need to think these things through. Run the scenerios through our minds a few times.
Train yourself to think fast and act fast.

[Buzzcook]

and if you are ready to kill?

Well geez if I'm ready to kill looks like that's what I'm going to do.

Personally I hope I'm never ready to kill. I just want to be ready to stop some guy from hurting me or mine.

[BlueTrain]

Do you all really think that training really prepares you to answer that question? I mean you can go shooting every week and know your handgun inside and out but that doesn't begin to address the problem. There may be forms of training that will help but that is not necessarily a pure firearms issue. Some trainers do address those aspects of being armed, no doubt some better than others, and such training should give you more confidence in your actions. But you don't approach being an armed individual in a total vacuum and the sum of one's recent experiences will probably be an indication of your future behavior. And by all that I mean that if your neighborhood or your residence has been the scene of a lot of troubles recently, and some of them have turned out badly for the residents, then no doubt you'd be more prepared mentally to do violence yourself, provided the local legal and political climate was not too discouraging.

[Balog]

I'd wager all the chest thumpers have never seen someone violenty killed, nor done the dead themselves. Killing is one of the deepest societal taboos, as well it should be. You can whistle past the graveyeard all you want, but until/unless the time comes when (God forbid it) you actually have to do it all the blustering in the world is just that. We train to improve our chances of doing the right thing, but there is no guarantee.