Fiocchi .25 ACP 50gr FMJ in Clear Ballistics Gel.

5pins · January 4, 2020, 08:13 AM

Test Gun: FN Baby Browning
Barrel length: 2.11 inches.
Ammunition: Fiocchi .25 ACP 50gr FMJ.
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel.
Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
Five shot velocity average: 654fps
Gel Temperature 70 degrees.

This will more than likely be the last .25 test I will do. Unless I see something in the future to change my mind, I just don’t see the point.

I got a five-shot average velocity of 654fps with a high of 687fps and a low of 624fps.

Five shots at five yards offhand.

The two round’s in the bare gel had a velocity of 693fps and 642fps. Penetration was 12.25 and 11.5 inches. 50 and 49.9 grains were the recovered weight and just in case you were wondering there was no expansion. The first round showed sign of tumbling about midway through and stopped base first. The second round did not show and signs of tumbling and was recovered nose forward.

In the heavy clothing gel, the first round’s velocity was 671fps and it penetrated to 9.25 inches. The second round hit the block at 674fps and penetrated to 9.5 inches. Neither bullet expanded and the recovered weight was 49.6 and 49.3 grains. Both bullets showed signs of tumbling at the mid point and were recovered base forward.

TxFlyFish · January 4, 2020, 08:28 AM

data is very useful, especially when it comes to less common chamberings. Props also for using a proper test gun!

Carmady · January 4, 2020, 09:06 AM

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to do all this with the small calibers. It's interesting to see what they really do.

JERRYS. · January 4, 2020, 11:46 AM

does anyone make a 50gr. fmj that goes 800 fps from a 2.5" bbl? and how about a 35gr. h.p. that goes 950 fps from a 2.5" bbl? in other words, does anyone make ammo that is even close to matching their box flap velocity claims?

Brit · January 4, 2020, 12:14 PM

Quite a while ago, in New York City an old Lady, a Jewelers wife, working in their Store, was standing behind the glass-topped counter, when two local hood-Rats entered the store. At least one had a gun. A Colt .25 belonging to her husband was sitting behind the counter, near her. She picked it up, pointed it, pressed the trigger twice. Two heart shots!
They had been robbed a few times before. But not since. Newspaper article, in the window! Reading your article, with those penetration depths? Makes sense.

TruthTellers · January 4, 2020, 04:22 PM

Under 700 fps is slow, Fiocchi obviously doesn't load this stuff hot. If you continue with .25 tests, try PPU next, they cost about $15 a box online, so pretty cheap and hopefully are closer to 750 fps.

Carmady · January 4, 2020, 07:27 PM

Going by some reloading notes it looks like 800 fps from a 50gr FMJ might be easy to reach while remaining below the SAAMI limit of 25,000 CUP. An unknown source said most 50gr FMJ's are around 760 fps, but doesn't give any barrel length/s.

The Lyman 49th Edition Handbook lists data for six different loads, all between 740-754 fps and 16,700-18,100 CUP. This may be the wrong way to look at it, but it looks to me like they could be able to increase the velocity by 50-75 fps while getting nowhere near 25,000 CUP.

JERRYS. · January 4, 2020, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carmady

Going by some reloading notes it looks like 800 fps from a 50gr FMJ might be easy to reach while remaining below the SAAMI limit of 25,000 CUP. An unknown source said most 50gr FMJ's are around 760 fps, but doesn't give any barrel length/s.

The Lyman 49th Edition Handbook lists data for six different loads, all between 740-754 fps and 16,700-18,100 CUP. This may be the wrong way to look at it, but it looks to me like they could be able to increase the velocity by 50-75 fps while getting nowhere near 25,000 CUP.

because of the apparent underloading of sub-calibers by manufacturers FMJ is the way to go. I have STHP. Hydra-Shok, and Gold Dot hollow points for my LWS32s only because the magazine shim prevents all FMJ [except WWB] from fitting in it. Hornady and PMC are loaded too low for me to bother with, not that the others I have are loaded hot. in .25 acp I wouldn't stray from a FMJ round at all unless I saw something else loaded properly.

darkgael · January 5, 2020, 06:18 AM

See the thread .22LR vs .25 ACP from 2013. I had chrono'd both cartridges previously and reported the results there. In short, Aquila 50 grain FMJ fired from a Bernardelli VP gave an average of 760 fps.
Pete

5pins · January 5, 2020, 09:43 AM

I don't plan on continuing with the .25 unless something compelling changes my mind. For one thing, I have returned the pistol to the owner and really don't want to use it again. I also don't see any real revelations coming with any new test.

JERRYS. · January 5, 2020, 10:35 AM

I've worked a few homicides where a single .25 acp FMJ round did the job. no doubt as to its lethality on unobstructed torso shots. the last one was a single shot to the chest of a thug who than ran down one flight of steps in an apartment building and collapsed [and died] in the hallway.

Rapidrob · January 5, 2020, 11:08 AM

At the turn of the last century. the .25 ACP was the most popular cartridge in the world and the use for self defense stories filled the newspapers.
Browning's design to off-set the poor ignition of that periods .22LR ammunition was a winner and is still is out of a quality pistol.

Bill DeShivs · January 5, 2020, 03:34 PM

The .25 will still do what it always has done.

samsmix · January 6, 2020, 01:56 PM

We say things like "stopping power", but most stops are psychological, something like 80%. Most non-militant bad guys baddies don't plan on being shot at, let alone shot.

Sgt127 · January 21, 2020, 07:00 PM

I have several .25’s. A Beretta 21A. A Bauer and a new production Seecamp. If you carry it and consider yourself armed with a 7-8 try ice Pick with range, you’re in the ballpark.

And, certainly not unarmed.

silvermane_1 · January 22, 2020, 12:43 AM

I always wondered what 25 ACP would gain out of a longer barrel.

TruthTellers · January 22, 2020, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvermane_1

I always wondered what 25 ACP would gain out of a longer barrel.

It would gain some because a 2 inch barrel isn't much to work with for any cartridge, especially a low pressure, small bore like the .25 is.

Ballisticsbytheinch shows that .25 ACP's velocity tops out after 10 inches of barrel, but even a 5 inch barrel is netting almost 100 fps to 180 fps more vs a 2 inch barrel with certain ammunition. I would like to see longer barrel handguns for the .25 and the .32 ACP because it's not always about the extra velocity, but just better sights and a longer sight radius.

Hal · January 22, 2020, 05:10 AM

Quote:

The .25 will still do what it always has done.

Let's all give Bill a big round of applause for - what has to be the best post I've read here in many a year!!

That is absolutely the most non-committal statement!!!

Nice job!

Carmady · January 22, 2020, 07:16 AM

I really like the Berettas with the lightweight frames, makes a huge difference.

I hefted an empty Protec-25 and an LCP loaded 6+1. The loaded LCP felt noticeably lighter, and there wasn't enough size difference to really matter.

Paul Harrell killed a deer with a .25 from less than 10', shot it in the head.

January 4, 2020, 08:13 AM	#1
5pins Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 1998 Location: WV Posts: 252	Fiocchi .25 ACP 50gr FMJ in Clear Ballistics Gel. Test Gun: FN Baby Browning Barrel length: 2.11 inches. Ammunition: Fiocchi .25 ACP 50gr FMJ. Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel. Distance: 10 feet. Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2. Five shot velocity average: 654fps Gel Temperature 70 degrees. This will more than likely be the last .25 test I will do. Unless I see something in the future to change my mind, I just don’t see the point. I got a five-shot average velocity of 654fps with a high of 687fps and a low of 624fps. Five shots at five yards offhand. The two round’s in the bare gel had a velocity of 693fps and 642fps. Penetration was 12.25 and 11.5 inches. 50 and 49.9 grains were the recovered weight and just in case you were wondering there was no expansion. The first round showed sign of tumbling about midway through and stopped base first. The second round did not show and signs of tumbling and was recovered nose forward. In the heavy clothing gel, the first round’s velocity was 671fps and it penetrated to 9.25 inches. The second round hit the block at 674fps and penetrated to 9.5 inches. Neither bullet expanded and the recovered weight was 49.6 and 49.3 grains. Both bullets showed signs of tumbling at the mid point and were recovered base forward. __________________ www.general-cartridge.com

January 4, 2020, 04:22 PM	#6
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,888	Under 700 fps is slow, Fiocchi obviously doesn't load this stuff hot. If you continue with .25 tests, try PPU next, they cost about $15 a box online, so pretty cheap and hopefully are closer to 750 fps. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

January 5, 2020, 06:18 AM	#9
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	See the thread .22LR vs .25 ACP from 2013. I had chrono'd both cartridges previously and reported the results there. In short, Aquila 50 grain FMJ fired from a Bernardelli VP gave an average of 760 fps. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

January 5, 2020, 09:43 AM	#10
5pins Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 1998 Location: WV Posts: 252	I don't plan on continuing with the .25 unless something compelling changes my mind. For one thing, I have returned the pistol to the owner and really don't want to use it again. I also don't see any real revelations coming with any new test. __________________ www.general-cartridge.com

January 5, 2020, 11:08 AM	#12
Rapidrob Member Join Date: January 15, 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 49	At the turn of the last century. the .25 ACP was the most popular cartridge in the world and the use for self defense stories filled the newspapers. Browning's design to off-set the poor ignition of that periods .22LR ammunition was a winner and is still is out of a quality pistol. __________________ President NM MILSURPS Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club

January 4, 2020, 08:28 AM	#2
TxFlyFish Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Posts: 1,246	data is very useful, especially when it comes to less common chamberings. Props also for using a proper test gun!

January 4, 2020, 09:06 AM	#3
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	Thanks for taking the time and trouble to do all this with the small calibers. It's interesting to see what they really do.

January 4, 2020, 11:46 AM	#4
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,969	does anyone make a 50gr. fmj that goes 800 fps from a 2.5" bbl? and how about a 35gr. h.p. that goes 950 fps from a 2.5" bbl? in other words, does anyone make ammo that is even close to matching their box flap velocity claims?

January 4, 2020, 12:14 PM	#5
Brit Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 1,934	Quite a while ago, in New York City an old Lady, a Jewelers wife, working in their Store, was standing behind the glass-topped counter, when two local hood-Rats entered the store. At least one had a gun. A Colt .25 belonging to her husband was sitting behind the counter, near her. She picked it up, pointed it, pressed the trigger twice. Two heart shots! They had been robbed a few times before. But not since. Newspaper article, in the window! Reading your article, with those penetration depths? Makes sense.

January 4, 2020, 07:27 PM	#7
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	Going by some reloading notes it looks like 800 fps from a 50gr FMJ might be easy to reach while remaining below the SAAMI limit of 25,000 CUP. An unknown source said most 50gr FMJ's are around 760 fps, but doesn't give any barrel length/s. The Lyman 49th Edition Handbook lists data for six different loads, all between 740-754 fps and 16,700-18,100 CUP. This may be the wrong way to look at it, but it looks to me like they could be able to increase the velocity by 50-75 fps while getting nowhere near 25,000 CUP.

January 5, 2020, 10:35 AM	#11
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,969	I've worked a few homicides where a single .25 acp FMJ round did the job. no doubt as to its lethality on unobstructed torso shots. the last one was a single shot to the chest of a thug who than ran down one flight of steps in an apartment building and collapsed [and died] in the hallway.

January 5, 2020, 03:34 PM	#13
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,986	The .25 will still do what it always has done. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

January 6, 2020, 01:56 PM	#14
samsmix Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Montana (Montucky?) Posts: 1,273	We say things like "stopping power", but most stops are psychological, something like 80%. Most non-militant bad guys baddies don't plan on being shot at, let alone shot. __________________ You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life. IF we're not supposed to eat animals, howcome God made 'em outta meat?

January 21, 2020, 07:00 PM	#15
Sgt127 Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2002 Posts: 1,053	I have several .25’s. A Beretta 21A. A Bauer and a new production Seecamp. If you carry it and consider yourself armed with a 7-8 try ice Pick with range, you’re in the ballpark. And, certainly not unarmed.

January 22, 2020, 12:43 AM	#16
silvermane_1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2011 Location: Burien,WA Posts: 897	I always wondered what 25 ACP would gain out of a longer barrel. __________________ Rugers:SR1911 CMD,MK 3 .22lr 6",Sec. Six '76 liberty .357 4",SRH .480 Ruger 7.5",Mini-14 188 5.56/.233 18.5", Marlins: 795 .22lr 16.5",30aw 30-30 20",Mossberg:Mav. 88 Tact. 12 ga, 18.5",ATR 100 .270 Win. 22",S&W:SW9VE 9mm 4",Springfield:XD .357sig 4", AKs:CAI PSL-54C, WASR 10/63, WW74,SLR-106c

January 22, 2020, 07:16 AM	#19
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	I really like the Berettas with the lightweight frames, makes a huge difference. I hefted an empty Protec-25 and an LCP loaded 6+1. The loaded LCP felt noticeably lighter, and there wasn't enough size difference to really matter. Paul Harrell killed a deer with a .25 from less than 10', shot it in the head.