Enduron 7977

stagpanther · February 12, 2021, 06:50 PM

I had an opportunity to try this out in temperatures of the teens/low twenties in 300 wby mag--unfortunately conditions were a bit too blustery to set up the labradar. However, I can say that true to advertising it seems to shoot pretty consistently, and more evident was the reduction in fouling, particular a reduction in copper fouling.

stagpanther · February 15, 2021, 09:17 AM

I did a follow-up test with VLD's but using ramshot magnum with one of my "sweet spot" loads. While the consistency was noticeably better, the bore was heavily fouled with copper even after fewer bullets down the bore than in the enduron test. To be fair, I didn't do a full "search" for the best load I could find with the enduron, but I'm not sure how much of a difference that would make.

brasscollector · February 15, 2021, 12:04 PM

I have a 1# to try out once the temperature moves back into the positive territory (going on 2 wks of single digit & negative temps here in WI). I'm hoping I find the same results as you, along with an acceptable accuracy node, with my 300 PRC. I know I have some enduron magnum rifle powder of some kind stashed away along with some 30cal berger VLDs.

stagpanther · February 15, 2021, 01:55 PM

Quote:

I have a 1# to try out once the temperature moves back into the positive territory (going on 2 wks of single digit & negative temps here in WI). I'm hoping I find the same results as you, along with an acceptable accuracy node, with my 300 PRC. I know I have some enduron magnum rifle powder of some kind stashed away along with some 30cal berger VLDs.

I was shooting in teens/20's and it's supposed to be temperature insensitive. Just to mix things up and make them even more interesting--I just received a batch of Tubbsdust and may mix a batch into my ramshot magnum just out of curiosity, though the instructions say the formulation favors smaller calibers at higher velocities.

stagpanther · February 15, 2021, 04:48 PM

Just got back using the ram mag mixed with Tubbs dust---ehhhh nope, heavy copper fouling.

Longshot4 · February 15, 2021, 07:29 PM

I would like to see some well coordinated testing with the Enduron powders.
I have never found any powder to prevent copper fouling. I have noticed a black tar like substance in the bore after using using 4166. I wouldn't be surprised to find that it acts as a type of dry lube smeared on lands and groves.
My 6mm Creedmoor sure liked the powder. Shot 95gr. SST like a dream.

stagpanther · February 16, 2021, 02:56 AM

Quote:

I would like to see some well coordinated testing with the Enduron powders.
I have never found any powder to prevent copper fouling. I have noticed a black tar like substance in the bore after using using 4166. I wouldn't be surprised to find that it acts as a type of dry lube smeared on lands and groves.
My 6mm Creedmoor sure liked the powder. Shot 95gr. SST like a dream.

I loaded up some 7977 in 270 WSM for my model 70--it's a copper-collecting cheese grater. I also have some 4166 and may try it out as well, but it's a much faster powder. Whether or not it totally eliminates copper is debatable--but what is noticeable is over-all cleaning time on the bore is significantly reduced. It would be interesting to find out if there was some kind of relationship in bullet bearing surface, velocity, pressure etc to the effectiveness of the cleaning action.

Quote:

My 6mm Creedmoor sure liked the powder. Shot 95gr. SST like a dream.

Interesting--I have a couple of 6creeds and they both seem to prefer bullets in the 103-107 gr weight range. I'll have to try that out.

brasscollector · February 16, 2021, 12:33 PM

I found the 1# of 7977 plus, as a bonus, I also found a 1# of 4955 I totally forgot about. Kinda wish I could get my hands on some 8133 to try out but that is probably a year out at this point.

I had excellent accuracy from the 4451 I tried in my 6.5 creedmoor but I think it lacked a bit in the velocity department. Could just be my barrel too.

Quote:

I wouldn't be surprised to find that it acts as a type of dry lube smeared on lands and groves

Online forum consensus seems to agree with that idea to some degree or another. I never noticed anything when I ran a couple of pounds of 4166 through a few rifles but then I wasn't looking for anything either.

stagpanther · February 16, 2021, 08:33 PM

I ran 12 cartridges of 130 vlds powered by 7977 through my 270 WSM, there was a noticeable "carbon plaque" on either edge of the lands adjacent to the grooves, but I see that a lot with other powders as well. I saw just a hint of very light copper fouling in just a few small areas, I'd say on the order of 90% less than the Winnie factory power max bonded (which shoots extremely well, I might add) of which I shot only 6 cartridges yesterday. Bottom line, about 10 patches and 15 minutes to clean--as opposed to dozens and an hour or more.

Another thing, Quickload threw a warning about overpressure for the published Hodgdon's suggested max loads for 7977. I've learned from experience that more often than not QL is closer to the real pressures and velocities when I've tested, when in doubt I'll stage the ladder test by loading up just the first lower charges rather than loading the whole set of charges up--which is what I did in this case--and glad I did.

February 12, 2021, 06:50 PM	#1
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,789	Enduron 7977 I had an opportunity to try this out in temperatures of the teens/low twenties in 300 wby mag--unfortunately conditions were a bit too blustery to set up the labradar. However, I can say that true to advertising it seems to shoot pretty consistently, and more evident was the reduction in fouling, particular a reduction in copper fouling. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

February 15, 2021, 09:17 AM	#2
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,789	I did a follow-up test with VLD's but using ramshot magnum with one of my "sweet spot" loads. While the consistency was noticeably better, the bore was heavily fouled with copper even after fewer bullets down the bore than in the enduron test. To be fair, I didn't do a full "search" for the best load I could find with the enduron, but I'm not sure how much of a difference that would make. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

February 15, 2021, 12:04 PM	#3
brasscollector Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2015 Posts: 526	I have a 1# to try out once the temperature moves back into the positive territory (going on 2 wks of single digit & negative temps here in WI). I'm hoping I find the same results as you, along with an acceptable accuracy node, with my 300 PRC. I know I have some enduron magnum rifle powder of some kind stashed away along with some 30cal berger VLDs. __________________ He may look dumb, but that's just a disguise. -Charlie Daniels

February 15, 2021, 04:48 PM	#5
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,789	Just got back using the ram mag mixed with Tubbs dust---ehhhh nope, heavy copper fouling. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

February 16, 2021, 08:33 PM	#9
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,789	I ran 12 cartridges of 130 vlds powered by 7977 through my 270 WSM, there was a noticeable "carbon plaque" on either edge of the lands adjacent to the grooves, but I see that a lot with other powders as well. I saw just a hint of very light copper fouling in just a few small areas, I'd say on the order of 90% less than the Winnie factory power max bonded (which shoots extremely well, I might add) of which I shot only 6 cartridges yesterday. Bottom line, about 10 patches and 15 minutes to clean--as opposed to dozens and an hour or more. Another thing, Quickload threw a warning about overpressure for the published Hodgdon's suggested max loads for 7977. I've learned from experience that more often than not QL is closer to the real pressures and velocities when I've tested, when in doubt I'll stage the ladder test by loading up just the first lower charges rather than loading the whole set of charges up--which is what I did in this case--and glad I did. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!* Last edited by stagpanther; February 16, 2021 at 08:48 PM.

February 15, 2021, 07:29 PM	#6
Longshot4 Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2014 Posts: 868	I would like to see some well coordinated testing with the Enduron powders. I have never found any powder to prevent copper fouling. I have noticed a black tar like substance in the bore after using using 4166. I wouldn't be surprised to find that it acts as a type of dry lube smeared on lands and groves. My 6mm Creedmoor sure liked the powder. Shot 95gr. SST like a dream.