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Old March 2, 2021, 02:54 PM   #1
Bucksnort1
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160 grain .357 lead bullets

I have a lot of (for me it's a lot) 160 grain, .357 LSWC bullets. I looked for recipes and could only find one for a 160 grain linotype round nose bullets.

Other than the difference in the shape of the two bullets and that linotype bullets are probably harder, what's the difference in loading. I'm loading for 38 special.

160 grains is 160 grains, yes?

Is it ok to use the linotype recipe for the LSWC bullets?
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Old March 2, 2021, 03:02 PM   #2
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Bucksnort1,

Cast lead bullet weights will vary according to the alloy used. Just use 158gr LSWC load data and you will be fine.

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Old March 2, 2021, 04:24 PM   #3
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USSR, thank you.
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Old March 2, 2021, 09:52 PM   #4
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USSR,

A while back, I asked the question about loading 160 grain lead bullets. I believe you advised me to load as 158, which I did. I am curious to know the difference in the linotype and non-linotype 160 grain bullets.
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Old March 2, 2021, 11:36 PM   #5
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My 158 gr Lee mold drops 160 gr bullets.

I use 158 grain jacketed bullet load data for reference.

I have used Quickload a bunch of times to determine how much adjustment to the specified charge is needed to compensate for small weight changers or small seating depth changes. The weight difference between a 158 and 160 is real close to insignificant. What is frequently much more important is any change in seating depth.

One really nice thing about my Quickload software is the ability to plug in the exact bullet used for the reference load and the software will figure out the seating depth (it knows the lengths of all common commercial bullets).

For example Alliant used the Speer 158 Gold Dot for some of its 357 magnum 158 gr loads. With a 1.575" OAL, the 0.680" long Speer bullet is seated 0.395" deep.
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Old March 2, 2021, 11:50 PM   #6
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As for impact from the difference in hardness, it is also small. Quickload uses a "start pressure" to deal with this parameter.

I ran a 6" 357 with a cast bullet and a jacketed bullet. All cases use the same charge of 16 grs of H110 and I started off with a seating depth of 0.395.

The 158 cast bullet calculated results: 1363 fps at 31698 psi.

The 158 jacket bullet calculated results: 1360 fps at 31749 psi.

I then ran the cast load with the weight increased to 160 gr.

The 160 cast bullet calculated results: 1362 fps at 32151 psi.

I then went back to 158 grs but increased the seating depth to 0.415"

The 158 cast bullet calculated results: 1393 fps at 34490 psi.

The above cases all support the position that seating depth is more important than a couple of grains bullet weight or the difference between jacketed data and cast data.

Last edited by P Flados; March 3, 2021 at 12:11 AM.
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Old March 3, 2021, 12:04 AM   #7
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Just use 158 grain lead bullet data. You'll be fine.
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Old March 3, 2021, 12:18 AM   #8
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If my math is right, 2gr is 1.25% of 160gr.
one and a quarter PERCENT difference
That is a very small amount.
At .38 special pressure and speeds this is an insignificant difference.
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Old March 3, 2021, 01:21 AM   #9
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The decimal should be moved a couple of places to 0.0125 which is smaller.
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Old March 3, 2021, 07:28 AM   #10
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Quote:
The decimal should be moved a couple of places to 0.0125 which is smaller.
Imperceptible.

Amazing what our digital age allows us to do.

"What time is it?"

"Twelve forty-nine."

Back in the day it was simply "ten till."
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Old March 3, 2021, 08:26 AM   #11
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I am curious to know the difference in the linotype and non-linotype 160 grain bullets.
Linotype is simply the alloy they used when testing that particular bullet. Back in the day, linotype was cheap and readily available - not so today. It makes for a light and hard bullet. Using alloys typically used today, the same bullet will be softer and weigh more.

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Old March 3, 2021, 03:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ms6852 View Post
The decimal should be moved a couple of places to 0.0125 which is smaller.
That’s the decimal, you then have to multiply by 100 for percent. Thus it’s 1.25 %.
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Old March 3, 2021, 10:17 PM   #13
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Got it.
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Old March 4, 2021, 02:21 PM   #14
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Linotype is lead. Pure lead too, as I recall. Used by printers in the olden days.
As mentioned, 2 grains won't make any difference.
"...a cast bullet and a jacketed bullet..." Different critters. A cast bullet using jacketed data can lead your barrel.
16 grains of H110 is .7 below MAX. Hodgdon doesn't give any cast bullet loads for the .357. Mind you, they also tested with a 10" barrel.
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Old March 4, 2021, 03:56 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by T. O'Heir View Post
Linotype is lead. Pure lead too, as I recall. Used by printers in the olden days.
As mentioned, 2 grains won't make any difference.
"...a cast bullet and a jacketed bullet..." Different critters. A cast bullet using jacketed data can lead your barrel.
16 grains of H110 is .7 below MAX. Hodgdon doesn't give any cast bullet loads for the .357. Mind you, they also tested with a 10" barrel.
Linotype is most certainly not pure lead.

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Old March 4, 2021, 10:29 PM   #16
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Linotype is a category of alloys for casting moveable type. The most common composition is 84% lead, 12% antimony, and 4% tin.
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Old March 12, 2021, 11:47 PM   #17
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My standard 357 for both pistols and rifles is my cast 168 gr. SWC pushed by #2400 powder.
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Old March 13, 2021, 10:56 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USSR View Post
Linotype is simply the alloy they used when testing that particular bullet. Back in the day, linotype was cheap and readily available - not so today. It makes for a light and hard bullet. Using alloys typically used today, the same bullet will be softer and weigh more.

Don
Depending on who's mould you are using. FME, Lee moulds tend to run light while Lyman moulds tend to run heavy. Maybe its just me.

Linotype can still be purchased from various suppliers at a few pennies more per pound than #2 alloy, or you can purchase the lead, antimony and tin separately and make your own for a few pennies a pound cheaper.

Wheel weights are a crap shoot as to composition, but adding tin (2-3%, which doesn't make bullets harder) facilitates mould fill allowing the melt to flow better in the mould thus casting "larger" bullets for better sizing.

When weighing cast bullets, always include the lube and gas check if there is one.

To the OP's original question, as with any new load, start at the lowest "starting load" and work up and you will always be safe.

RJ
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Old March 13, 2021, 11:19 AM   #19
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Linotype can still be purchased from various suppliers at a few pennies more per pound than #2 alloy, or you can purchase the lead, antimony and tin separately and make your own for a few pennies a pound cheaper.
Please do not try to make your own linotype by buying pure antimony and blending it into lead and tin. Antimony is very toxic and the temperatures required to blend it are beyond normal casting temperatures. If you want linotype, buy linotype.

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Old March 13, 2021, 12:30 PM   #20
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It's the alloying temperature that is the issue, so you want to buy an antimony/lead alloy if you are going to create your own blend.

Since this has turned into a casting discussion, I'll move it to the cast bullet forum.
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