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Old December 6, 2020, 06:58 PM   #1
GJeffB
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Sadly Cimarron SINGLE Shot

posted here and elsewhere per usual

Cimarron 1874 Sporting Rifle Sharps falling block .45-70. Brand new, received last week or so, first range session today. grrr

Load round 1, fire, eject. Load round 2. Lever won't close, block rises slightly, hangs on the rim, cartridge chambered. Pulled the lever pin and lever, block still hangs on the rim. I removed the fore end and further inspection shows the barrel is loose! As in perhaps an 1/8th of an inch in both directions of the witness mark. Finally tapped the round out of the chamber with cleaning rod. Later on at home, rinse and repeat. The barrel is clearly so loose it's preventing the action from closing on a chambered round. Thus making the rifle a TRUE single shot. I only got 1 round off before it stopped functioning.

Question, just for my information, please: Does anybody know how the barrel is secured in the receiver? It doesn't appear to be threaded, pinned perhaps? If pinned, would that first round have caused the loosening?

Looks like I'll have to prepay shipping back to Cimarron after getting authorization, and expect a minimum 2 month wait. I'll call Customer Service tomorrow. Email sent tonight

-jb
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Old December 6, 2020, 08:41 PM   #2
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I am sorry to hear that. Is it made by Uberti, Pietta or someone else?
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Old December 6, 2020, 10:29 PM   #3
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Sarge, I understand Cimarron is an importer for Uberti, Pedersoli, and, perhaps in this case Chiappa as marked on the barrel under the forearm. Enclosed paperwork refers me to [email protected] which is apparently the "factory authorized repair" location. So that's now a 3rd (4th) party intervention?

Let's see how the first contact goes

Anybody with possible diagnoses, anticipated/preferred fixes, so I know what I'm talking about if it escalates.

-jb, hoping for the best, preparing for ...
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Old December 6, 2020, 10:59 PM   #4
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Hard to believe that barrel is not threaded into the receiver....send that thing back..no question

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Old December 6, 2020, 11:27 PM   #5
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ocharry, just so there's no misunderstanding:
I don't know if the barrel is threaded or not. I just know that there's easily a few degrees of turn/slop/twist in a loose barrel. I can't determine if it is threaded or not.

Quote:
send that thing back..no question
Pretty much where I'm at. Emailed tonight, but that's Sunday, so they get a pass for a day or so. I'm a bit itchy about having to pay for shipping, but let's give it a bit to play out.

I was kind of looking for ... I don't know. Maybe "yes/no/maybe that's normal" <or not or "this is the proper fix to expect ..."> or some such. You may have answered the question.

Thanks,

-jb, bummed about the first big mouth rifle
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Old December 7, 2020, 02:15 AM   #6
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The barrel is threaded into the receiver. If the barrel has rotated even a little bit, your extractor is keeping the breech block from coming up all the way.
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Old December 7, 2020, 10:17 AM   #7
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^^^^
This
Seems to be correct. Well played Scorch

-jb
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Old December 7, 2020, 10:58 PM   #8
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I have an older Dixie gun works 74...made by pedersole...spelling...it is their sport target model...may not be made anymore....anyway....I think scorch is right...if the barrel turns any it would keep the extractor from going in its notch

The front of the block has a radius on it to help cam or slide by the rim of the cartridge and push the extractor back into its notch

So I guess if you want to you could pull the take down pin and drop the block out...the extractor hinges on that pin....put it back together and leave the extractor out....just to see if the block will slide into place...the corners or edges of the block should stay in contact with the barrel face even when you push the lever all the way forward for extraction...with the barrel turning...if it turns out then it could cause a head space problem too

Either way the barrel should be tight in the receiver

I would think cimarron should pay the shipping back.....I'm pretty dang sure they want it back just because it could turn into a real liability mess for them if you get hurt with the thing....its a manufacturing problem

For sure dont shoot it anymore

Hope it works out for you....I think I would want a different rifle from here

Good luck..play for keeps on this one.....keep us up to date on this one...definitely curious what they say

Yeah I feel for ya

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Old December 17, 2020, 11:13 PM   #9
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x-posted

Just updating the thread as requested ...

Email to Cimarron for a Return Authorization (RA#) Dec. 6th explaining the events, date of purchase and advising I have appropriate documentation of purchase. I received a reply Dec.10 (4 business days, not too bad) with an RA# and advised to standby for additional email with paperwork that will need to send with [my] rifle. I replied same day (12/10) asking for a return label for an out of the box defect.

Today, 12/17, 5 more business days with no reply, I followed up asking for an estimated time to expect “'additional paperwork'” so I have an idea when to get worried, please?"
Also included was an explanation that I've never had to return a firearm, and I'm unsure of what response time should be, given covid, etc.

To be continued ...

-jb, no idea what's un/reasonable
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Old December 18, 2020, 02:05 PM   #10
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Yep, factory's problem. Barrel is not supposed to be free floated in the receiver. I wonder how it passed inspection? Don't they headspace it?
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Old December 18, 2020, 02:12 PM   #11
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European made, didn't they proof test it? Which is supposed to include inspection, not just firing with an overload.
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Old December 18, 2020, 02:45 PM   #12
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Makes you question the proof house, doesn't it Jim?

Get Joey to bless the batch, have Antonio stamp it with a proof and crate 'em for shipment overseas. Not our problem anymore.
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Old December 23, 2020, 05:31 PM   #13
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Update as promised:

Glad I was patient with Cimarron. They must be buried like other vendors. Anyway, today, after 13 days of no reply, the Customer Service Agent that had contacted me initially replied. He gave me complete step by step instructions and included a prepaid UPS shipping label and a copy of the authorized repair shop's FFL, just in case. No fuss, no muss, dropped it off at UPS and it's on it's merry way.

That's twice now that I was this >< close to jumping down somebody's throat when I've been contacted. CS Agents must also be mind readers

-jb
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Old December 23, 2020, 05:55 PM   #14
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There are a number of ways that could be "fixed" Some are "less good"

You paid for a pristine,correct rifle. IMO,that pretty much means a new barrel.

Next best,setting it back a thread.

From there, IMO, it turns into hacks to send you smiling down the road. Loctite,a shim, peening or rolling to displace metal,etc.

I might ask to be informed of what the remedy will be before the work begins.
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Old December 23, 2020, 10:43 PM   #15
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Let there be no doubt

At the moment in time, I'm accepting slow motion steps.
TBC

-jb
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Old December 24, 2020, 01:01 AM   #16
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They'll have to either set back the existing barrel and rechamber it, or replace the existing barrel to make it right.
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Old February 8, 2021, 07:13 PM   #17
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[Reviving the thread for promised update]

You can’t make this stuff up …

I had a message today to call Cimarron Firearms about my gun [yay, fingers crossed]

I called back and spoke to the Texas Customer Service Rep. She’s happy as a clam, explains that the gunsmith had to send my gun back to the Chiappa factory in Ohio. But they got it repaired, sent it back to the Texas Customer Service center, and she’s going to get it boxed up and sent out to me tomorrow. She goes on to explain it doesn’t have to go to an FFL, (I knew that), verified my address, blah blah blah. As we were finishing up I asked her what repair was made.

“Let’s see,” she says … sound of papers shuffling. “Oh, it says they modified the trigger plate [can almost see the smile on her face].” I nicely explained that I don’t even know what a trigger plate is, but my issue didn’t seem to have anything to do with a trigger plate. She asked me what gun I sent (uh-oh). I told her the model and type of the rifle, and the issue was a loose barrel.

She’s properly embarrassed and explains she thought I was a different customer. She found the paperwork on mine and confirmed the gunsmith had noted “the barrel can be unscrewed by hand” and sent it also to the factory in Ohio.

Me: so my rifle is not repaired?
Her: no, sorry
Me: and you’re not boxing up and sending me the gun?
Her: no, sorry
Me: I had you calendared to follow up on Friday, since that would be 30 business days since the gunsmith received it. Since you called me, could you check on the progress and get me an update?
Her: yes sir. I’ll do that and let you know. I’ll email you tomorrow. I’m sorry for the confusion.
[Conversation closes]

[Jeff kicks himself in the back] Daaaang. If I’d have kept my mouth shut, I might have had some weapon with a “modified trigger plate: show up!” Wait what? Heck, some guy in Sheboygan NJ might still end up with a once fired falling block o_O Talk about confidence in a company … Well, at least they're responsive, friendly, and trying to be helpful

You can’t make this stuff up …

[p.s. I acknowledged the old thread warning. I revived as promised for the update. When there's a resolution would it be better to start a new thread and reference the old? It seems appropriate to revive it to keep continuity.]

-jb, patiently awaiting the next adventure
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Old March 2, 2021, 09:17 PM   #18
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x-posted per usual

Saga continues ...
Anybody have a valid email address for some exec at Cimarron Arms? Best I could find was a possible [email protected] dunno if that's valid or not.

-jb, getting no replies
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Old March 4, 2021, 06:43 PM   #19
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the next time you talk to any one there, tell them you have kept all e-mails and phone calls from day one and if things don,t get resolved to your liking, you will post every thing about your plight about their firearm on several firearm sites that you are a member on. good luck. ps i read all posts about anyone having troubles with any firearm and that helps me to determin if i want to buy one.
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Old March 4, 2021, 09:28 PM   #20
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eastbank, I have indeed documented everything.
Update: Back to post #17 when the nice ady said my rifle had been forwarded to the "factory in Ohio." I emailed Chiappa Ohio and their reply was that they did not have my rifle, Cimarron has not sent it to them AYKM??
So, since the Feb 8th conversation, I've followed with more emails. [crickets] For some reason they are no longer even responding. I called the original CSR's numbers ... no answer, no answering machine, just ring ring ring until I gave up. Right now I know zero about their repairs. All I know is their customer service has provided conflicting and false information and for whatever reason stopped answering my inquires. That's about the worst thing you can do, ignore a customer.

Quote:
next time you talk to any one there, tell them you have kept all e-mails and phone calls from day one and if things don,t get resolved to your liking, you will post every thing
Yeah, I've considered that. Just not my style. Sounds like "I'm gonna tell my mom on you ..." No offense, I just don't play that card. Besides, everything I've posted here and elsewhere is factual and not embellished. I leave it up to the readers to draw their conclusions.

So to recap: It's been well over 60 days. Their CSR offered to follow up if I asked, has not. Another CSR almost (apparently) returned the wrong gun, and again offered to provide an update, didn't happen. I was told the rifle was returned to the factory, factory denies. Additional requests to original CSR *and* company president (if I had the currect e-dress) are unanswered. I'm inquiring about a credit card merchant dispute, but I'm guessing it's too late. I almost feel like my gun is lost, but I can't be sure one way or another.

Conclusion: take what you will about Cimarron customer care. But thanks again for the sugghestion

-jb, never never land
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Old March 4, 2021, 11:37 PM   #21
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The president's name is Mike Harvey. Corporate address is:

105 Winding Oak Road, Fredericksburg, TX 78624

Try snail mail, certified, return receipt requested.

E-mail addresses:
Dealer Sales: [email protected]

Shipping: [email protected]

Repair Service: [email protected]

Press: [email protected]
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Old March 5, 2021, 06:40 AM   #22
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post #21 gives you all the info you need to get the ball rolling, some one there will or should care about their image. and to me its not like telling mom, but getting a company to take care of a problem of their making. i,m sure we are not talking about peanuts here, but high dollars. if me, i would be screaming to the high heavens.
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Old March 5, 2021, 01:12 PM   #23
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I might suggest a polite letter to Mike Harvey bringing it to his attention.

Any CEO concerned with success would like to know about a serious shortcoming in the organization.

I suggest a brief, concise cover letter advising him a defective rifle sent to customer service went missing,and communication from customer service is inadequate.

I would attach an organized,uncluttered timeline. Names and dates.

I might also attach a URL to this thread.

Given that Mr Harvey undoubtedly wants the Cimarron Brand to be a trusted one,he can weigh his marketing costs against his cost of one rifle and make you whole just by making the decision to replace a defective rifle.

Its also valuable to a CEO to learn where to focus efforts to improve his organization.

In these times,perhaps a key player or even several may have been affected
by COVID.
These days,especially with an international business dealing in firearms,documentation must be robust enough to not rely on key individuals who can go down,and everything must be trackable.

Mr Harvey likely will be grateful to you.
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Old March 5, 2021, 06:04 PM   #24
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Yeah, let me cover both replies.

White Eagle, thanks for the info, I have that from the website.
HiBC, I have been probably as polite as I ever have been given the building frustration. One of the polite correspondences was indeed to Harvey via email. No response. And the email having not bounced as an invalid address, it's a pretty good guess it was delivered.

It's not the repair time at issue. It's the absolute cessation of all communication. As an aside, I just today saw another thread where the poster has been calling Cimarron and never gets an answer.

Finally, time is running out for my merchant dispute period with the credit card. At this time, I had to file the billing dispute or risk loosing the chance.

Thanks for the information guys

-jb
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Old March 7, 2021, 01:18 AM   #25
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The return receipt with a certified letter may be of interest when you decide to get a lawyer involved to get your property back or possibly in small claims court.


A notarized copy of the actual contents might not be a bad idea either.
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