What does "Performance Center" indicate in the context of S&W? - Page 2

wild cat mccane · February 11, 2021, 05:25 PM

My use of "every" might have been wrong on having a different spring, but you can see it's pretty normed across all PC revolvers that it's this spring giving the PC revolver trigger previously unmentioned.

Moenie · February 11, 2021, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74A95

In some of their current production PC guns (example; https://www.smith-wesson.com/product...-686?sku=11759) they had on their old website description (just a few months back) the guns had a 'bossed' mainspring. That's not very descriptive, but what they did was change the normal mainspring for a ribbed mainspring. I have one and it has a ribbed mainspring. I also have a relatively new standard model 67 (like the one at this link: https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...weights/383919) and it has the typical flat mainspring.

I'm not sure how you can present these two links as supporting the notion that PC guns have different spring rates.

The first link makes mention of a "tuned" action. It does not go into details as to whether the tuned action involves different spring rates. It may, but it's not mentioned.

The second article doesn't state PC guns have different spring rates either.

Moenie · February 11, 2021, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

My use of "every" might have been wrong on having a different spring, but you can see it's pretty normed across all PC revolvers that it's this spring giving the PC revolver trigger previously unmentioned.

Your belief that trigger tuning = spring swap is incorrect, and it's causing you to make the assumption that PC revolvers have different springs. While PC revolvers may have different springs (which I doubt), your assumption that PC revolvers have different spring because their triggers are better is wrong.

74A95 · February 11, 2021, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moenie

I'm not sure how you can present these two links as supporting the notion that PC guns have different spring rates.

The first link makes mention of a "tuned" action. It does not go into details as to whether the tuned action involves different spring rates. It may, but it's not mentioned.

The second article doesn't state PC guns have different spring rates either.

I said nothing about different spring rates or trigger pull weights. I only mentioned different mainspring types.

74A95 · February 11, 2021, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moenie

Your belief that trigger tuning = spring swap is incorrect, and it's causing you to make the assumption that PC revolvers have different springs. While PC revolvers may have different springs (which I doubt), your assumption that PC revolvers have different spring because their triggers are better is wrong.

I just gave an example of a PC revolver that has a different mainspring than a non-PC revolver.

74A95 · February 11, 2021, 07:10 PM

In case anyone is interested, my S&W PC 686 L-frame revolver (SKU # 11759) has a 3.75 pound single action trigger pull and a 10.75 pound double action trigger pull right out of the box.

My Model 67 (non-PC) has a 4.5 pound single action trigger pull and the double action trigger pull is 13.0 pounds right out of the box.

The double action on the PC gun is much smoother than it is on the non-PC gun.

wahsben · February 11, 2021, 08:27 PM

I've got 3 PC guns. A 627 a 1911 and a 629 Stealth Hunter. All have very good triggers. I believe that no MIM parts are used in them either but I'm not sure and tolerances are closer on the revolvers. I'm not sure on the 1911. I also have a 625 that's not a PC but I sent it in for one of the packages where they did trigger work and changed out some parts and the trigger is better than what it was before but I still give a slight edge to the triggers on the PC. I've had the 627 and 1911 for several years but the 629 for only around a year and at least on mine I'd say the quality is the same.

Moenie · February 12, 2021, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74A95

I just gave an example of a PC revolver that has a different mainspring than a non-PC revolver.

My comment wasn't in response to anything you said.

Moenie · February 12, 2021, 11:42 AM

delete

Moenie · February 12, 2021, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74A95

I said nothing about different spring rates or trigger pull weights. I only mentioned different mainspring types.

Fair enough. My bad.

Carl the Floor Walker · February 12, 2021, 01:15 PM

Interesting question. When I purchased my 642, I was checking out all the models and saw a few from the "Performance Center". I also spent some time researching what this meant. What I believe is possible is, that any change from the standard model is "FROM" the performance center. And that could be any modification such as just a different grip or in one case the cylinder drilled for Moon clips. I am not sure to this day if they do any trigger jobs on all Performance Center Guns, or perhaps just do trigger jobs on select models?
Regardless, IMO the trigger of the 642 was not near as nice as the LCR trigger. So I did put in a After Market Spring Kit and it helped smooth it out. It was not expensive and very easy to install.

wild cat mccane · February 12, 2021, 01:37 PM

The S&W forum is full of info that it's a different rebound spring being used plus the different obvious cosmetic changes.

rock185 · February 12, 2021, 03:46 PM

I don't believe the Performance Center actually exists anymore, in the form described in the January/February 2001 Handgunner magazine. I've owned several Performance Center guns built between the '90s and early 2000s. Not at all what the "PC" is building now. Now days, IMHO, "Performance Center" signifies guns with some non-standard feature/s, the formerly prestigious PC logo LASERed on the gun somewhere, and a higher MSRP.

BTW, if PC guns having a "bossed"/ribbed mainspring is a desirable thing, all you want are available from Wolff springs for a few bucks a piece. The Wolff Power Rib reduced power mainsprings and/or reduced power rebound springs will reduce trigger pull. Gosh, just like those swell "PC" guns

Moenie · February 12, 2021, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

The S&W forum is full of info that it's a different rebound spring being used plus the different obvious cosmetic changes.

Of course it is. It's also full of info telling you an L Frame is an N Frame in the front and an K Frame at the back.

Moenie · February 13, 2021, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rock185

BTW, if PC guns having a "bossed"/ribbed mainspring is a desirable thing, all you want are available from Wolff springs for a few bucks a piece. The Wolff Power Rib reduced power mainsprings and/or reduced power rebound springs will reduce trigger pull. Gosh, just like those swell "PC" guns

Don't you just feel silly buying all those expensive PC guns when you could have bought a regular S&W and stuck a $15 Wolf mainspring in it and had the same? LOL.

Grizzly2 · February 13, 2021, 04:51 PM

I tried twice to buy one of these 642s from the performance center. Luckily they were ordered through Davidson's and could be returned. The first one had the barrel clocked or canted and was returned for another. The second also had a clocked/canted barrel as well as a trigger that was very sluggish to return (bad spring? or may needed cleaning or deburring?). This one was also returned and the lgs simply refunded my money. I gave up trying to buy a 642 and went elsewhere. What a shame. The add claims it to have had a tuned action. Really?

10186_01_lg_1.jpg
Performance Center by Smith & Wesson - Where fit meets performance. From hand-cutting and fitting to precise fine-tuning, Performance Center firearms are top performers. Originating from standard designs or created from the ground up, Performance Center revolvers, hunting revolvers, pistols and modern sporting rifles are the ultimate expression of old-world craftsmanship and modern technology.

• Performance Center Tuned Action
• High Bright, Polished Cylinder Flutes
• High Bright, Polished Thumbpiece and Side Plate Screws
• Custom, Synthetic Grip with Wood Inserts
• Chrome-Plated, Polished Trigger
• Cylinder Cut for Full Moon Clips (Moon Clips Included)

A moon clip is a ring-shaped or star-shaped piece of metal designed to hold multiple cartridges together as a unit for simultaneous insertion and extraction from a revolver cylinder.

ALL BACKED BY OUR SMITH & WESSON LIFETIME SERVICE POLICY.
Availability subject to applicable federal, state and local laws, regulations, and ordinances.

Specs
SKU 10186
Model Model 642
Caliber 38 S&W SPECIAL +P
Capacity 5
Color Two-Tone
Length 6.31
Front Sight Integral
Rear Sight Fixed
Action Double Action Only
Grip Synthetic with Wood Inserts
Cylinder Material Stainless Steel
Barrel Material Stainless Steel
Frame Material Aluminum Alloy
Frame Finish Matte Silver - Two Tone
Barrel Length 1.875" (4.8 cm)
Weight 14.4 oz.

February 11, 2021, 05:25 PM	#26
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,627	My use of "every" might have been wrong on having a different spring, but you can see it's pretty normed across all PC revolvers that it's this spring giving the PC revolver trigger previously unmentioned. __________________ My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.

February 12, 2021, 11:42 AM	#34
Moenie Member Join Date: December 17, 2020 Location: In a house Posts: 53	delete Last edited by Moenie; February 12, 2021 at 11:51 AM.

February 12, 2021, 01:15 PM	#36
Carl the Floor Walker member Join Date: June 3, 2017 Location: South Posts: 1,422	Interesting question. When I purchased my 642, I was checking out all the models and saw a few from the "Performance Center". I also spent some time researching what this meant. What I believe is possible is, that any change from the standard model is "FROM" the performance center. And that could be any modification such as just a different grip or in one case the cylinder drilled for Moon clips. I am not sure to this day if they do any trigger jobs on all Performance Center Guns, or perhaps just do trigger jobs on select models? Regardless, IMO the trigger of the 642 was not near as nice as the LCR trigger. So I did put in a After Market Spring Kit and it helped smooth it out. It was not expensive and very easy to install. Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; February 12, 2021 at 01:22 PM.

February 12, 2021, 01:37 PM	#37
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,627	The S&W forum is full of info that it's a different rebound spring being used plus the different obvious cosmetic changes. __________________ My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.

February 12, 2021, 03:46 PM	#38
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,093	I don't believe the Performance Center actually exists anymore, in the form described in the January/February 2001 Handgunner magazine. I've owned several Performance Center guns built between the '90s and early 2000s. Not at all what the "PC" is building now. Now days, IMHO, "Performance Center" signifies guns with some non-standard feature/s, the formerly prestigious PC logo LASERed on the gun somewhere, and a higher MSRP. BTW, if PC guns having a "bossed"/ribbed mainspring is a desirable thing, all you want are available from Wolff springs for a few bucks a piece. The Wolff Power Rib reduced power mainsprings and/or reduced power rebound springs will reduce trigger pull. Gosh, just like those swell "PC" guns __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

February 11, 2021, 07:10 PM	#31
74A95 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Posts: 1,570	In case anyone is interested, my S&W PC 686 L-frame revolver (SKU # 11759) has a 3.75 pound single action trigger pull and a 10.75 pound double action trigger pull right out of the box. My Model 67 (non-PC) has a 4.5 pound single action trigger pull and the double action trigger pull is 13.0 pounds right out of the box. The double action on the PC gun is much smoother than it is on the non-PC gun.

February 11, 2021, 08:27 PM	#32
wahsben Member Join Date: January 16, 2005 Posts: 48	I've got 3 PC guns. A 627 a 1911 and a 629 Stealth Hunter. All have very good triggers. I believe that no MIM parts are used in them either but I'm not sure and tolerances are closer on the revolvers. I'm not sure on the 1911. I also have a 625 that's not a PC but I sent it in for one of the packages where they did trigger work and changed out some parts and the trigger is better than what it was before but I still give a slight edge to the triggers on the PC. I've had the 627 and 1911 for several years but the 629 for only around a year and at least on mine I'd say the quality is the same.

February 13, 2021, 04:51 PM	#41
Grizzly2 Member Join Date: September 5, 2017 Posts: 88	I tried twice to buy one of these 642s from the performance center. Luckily they were ordered through Davidson's and could be returned. The first one had the barrel clocked or canted and was returned for another. The second also had a clocked/canted barrel as well as a trigger that was very sluggish to return (bad spring? or may needed cleaning or deburring?). This one was also returned and the lgs simply refunded my money. I gave up trying to buy a 642 and went elsewhere. What a shame. The add claims it to have had a tuned action. Really? 10186_01_lg_1.jpg Performance Center by Smith & Wesson - Where fit meets performance. From hand-cutting and fitting to precise fine-tuning, Performance Center firearms are top performers. Originating from standard designs or created from the ground up, Performance Center revolvers, hunting revolvers, pistols and modern sporting rifles are the ultimate expression of old-world craftsmanship and modern technology. • Performance Center Tuned Action • High Bright, Polished Cylinder Flutes • High Bright, Polished Thumbpiece and Side Plate Screws • Custom, Synthetic Grip with Wood Inserts • Chrome-Plated, Polished Trigger • Cylinder Cut for Full Moon Clips (Moon Clips Included) A moon clip is a ring-shaped or star-shaped piece of metal designed to hold multiple cartridges together as a unit for simultaneous insertion and extraction from a revolver cylinder. ALL BACKED BY OUR SMITH & WESSON LIFETIME SERVICE POLICY. Availability subject to applicable federal, state and local laws, regulations, and ordinances. Specs SKU 10186 Model Model 642 Caliber 38 S&W SPECIAL +P Capacity 5 Color Two-Tone Length 6.31 Front Sight Integral Rear Sight Fixed Action Double Action Only Grip Synthetic with Wood Inserts Cylinder Material Stainless Steel Barrel Material Stainless Steel Frame Material Aluminum Alloy Frame Finish Matte Silver - Two Tone Barrel Length 1.875" (4.8 cm) Weight 14.4 oz.