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Old March 10, 2019, 02:27 PM   #1
ColoradoGunNut
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Reloading with cast 45 acp questions

Hello all I am reloading 45 acp with cast lead 230 grain round nose boolits. The boolits are powder coated. I am having feed issues in my Sig Sauer and Kimber 1911's. Wondering what others are using for a COL with this same round? I started my testing using 5.2 grains of Unique powder with a COL of 1.250. That round jammed every other round in both guns but more in the Sig than the Kimber. I retested using the same load but with a COL of 1.210. That round fed much better but still getting a few jams hear and there. Can anyone suggest a solution or elaborate on the COL you are using for little to no feed problems? Thanks!

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Old March 10, 2019, 02:51 PM   #2
Marco Califo
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Here's the forum master thread on loading RN in 45 Auto:

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=407195
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Old March 10, 2019, 03:35 PM   #3
Dufus
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I only have Colts, no Sigs or Kimbers.

My seating with that bullet is to 1.200". Edit: I originally mistakenly entered 1.170 as the COAL and this was in error.

When I load a batch, I always take 2 full mags & the pistol to the back yard and aiming to the ground, manually cycle the mags thru the gun to verify function.

If you worry about dirt, throw down a large plastic bag or something similar to drop the cartridges on.

Last edited by Dufus; March 10, 2019 at 08:33 PM.
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Old March 10, 2019, 04:01 PM   #4
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ColoradoGunNut,

Use your barrels as a gauge:



Avoid the 4th condition on the right, in particular.

The reason round nose can vary is different makers don't use the same profiles for the ogives. Some are drawn-out ellipses, while others are stubby hemispheres. The stubby ones have to be seated deeper than the long ones do. The cast RN's that I have all have a small shoulder. If you can see a shoulder on yours, it can stick out of the case mouth. The photo below is a little more sticking out than average, but the barrel-as-gauge will tell you what your gun likes. When the gun is an unkown, the starting point is usually to have the shoulder about a thumbnail thickness (around 0.020") forward of a full length (0.898") case. Most cases are a little shorter and you can adjust the shoulder position accordingly.

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Old March 10, 2019, 04:10 PM   #5
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Would seriously recommend loading up dummy rounds with no primer or powder to check function before loading any actual live rounds. Not all 230 lrn lead bullets are the same, though most seem to be similar. Nor do all 1911's function with the same length.

5.5 grains unique is favorite 45 acp load with 230 lrn bullets, and it is already a light load. Have loaded mine at 1.255 in, never seen any lrn loaded as short as 1.170. Am loading my lrnfp slightly longer than that.
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Old March 10, 2019, 08:30 PM   #6
Dufus
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Quote:
5.5 grains unique is favorite 45 acp load with 230 lrn bullets, and it is already a light load. Have loaded mine at 1.255 in, never seen any lrn loaded as short as 1.170. Am loading my lrnfp slightly longer than that.
I apologize to all. I was on the wrong page in my notebook and I almost always go back and double check. I was distracted and did not this time.

My correct COAL is 1.200" for that 230 gr bullet.
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Old March 11, 2019, 02:10 AM   #7
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Lyman lists the max COAL for the .45ACP as 1.275"

USUALLY there is nothing wrong with shorter rounds provided they feed properly.

you said you're having jams in both a Kimber and a Sig. WHERE in the feeding cycle are you having the jams? Same in both guns? before chambering? during??

My first guess would be to load your rounds a little LONGER and see if they cycle properly. I set my dies using a GI ball round, and never have issues.

Good luck
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Old March 11, 2019, 07:05 AM   #8
Scottcc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoGunNut View Post
Hello all I am reloading 45 acp with cast lead 230 grain round nose boolits. The boolits are powder coated. I am having feed issues in my Sig Sauer and Kimber 1911's. Wondering what others are using for a COL with this same round? I started my testing using 5.2 grains of Unique powder with a COL of 1.250. That round jammed every other round in both guns but more in the Sig than the Kimber. I retested using the same load but with a COL of 1.210. That round fed much better but still getting a few jams hear and there. Can anyone suggest a solution or elaborate on the COL you are using for little to no feed problems? Thanks!
My Sig P220 has a shorter chamber than my 1911s. My loads were in spec according to my Lee manuals, 45acp LSWC 200 gr Hornady the loads passed the plunk test in the 1911 barrel. At the range when I tried them in the P220. Many of them would not allow the slide go into battery, and I had to tap the rear sight lightly with a rubber hammer.

I'm not sure if you're having the same issue, or if your Sig is a 1911, or if my 220 is in spec. I could run the loads in all my 45 guns after I shortened my COL by .05".

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Old March 11, 2019, 12:13 PM   #9
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SAAMI Spec allows for 1.190 min to 1.275 Max. My Springfield 1911 starts to feed poorly over 1.260. Shorten your OAL until it feeds properly but start a new ladder test at the minimum powder for each new length. Watch for pressure signs. Attached is the SAAMI Spec sheet for 45 ACP. Also a check gauge would be a good idea to make sure your case is the right diameter. You can use the barrel of your firearm as well. You can also compare some factory ammo dimensions to your reloads.
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Old March 11, 2019, 12:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottcc View Post
My Sig P220 has a shorter chamber than my 1911s. My loads were in spec according to my Lee manuals, 45acp LSWC 200 gr Hornady the loads passed the plunk test in the 1911 barrel. At the range when I tried them in the P220. Many of them would not allow the slide go into battery, and I had to tap the rear sight lightly with a rubber hammer.

I'm not sure if you're having the same issue, or if your Sig is a 1911, or if my 220 is in spec. I could run the loads in all my 45 guns after I shortened my COL by .05".

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Well-said.

I've had the same issue in my P220 on a couple of occasions when I tried a new bullet. Of course, nowadays, I always barrel check so it hasn't been a problem lately.

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Old March 11, 2019, 02:22 PM   #11
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Make sure the powder coating isn't interfering with the loaded round's seating.
Powder coating adds to the diameter of a bullet...this at times makes the bullet too large and it won't fully chamber . I have run into this problem before with coated bullets and can be a downside to using them .
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Old March 11, 2019, 03:00 PM   #12
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What feed issues, jams are you having? Is the cartridge hanging up on the feed ramp, not going into battery, or something else? Without knowing the actual problem it's a crap shoot trying to fix it.

It's possible that it's a brass problem or magazine problem also... Are you sizing the case completely? Are you removing the flare from the brass completely?
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Old March 16, 2019, 04:41 PM   #13
ColoradoGunNut
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Thanks everyone for your replies! I fixed the problem after reading the post by Johnny Guest on reloading 45 acp with cast lead bullets. My problem was not my COL! It was the fact that I was not crimping the bell out of the case. After reading the post by Johnny Gueast I reloaded 50 rounds using the suggested COL in the post but after seating the bullet I went back and added a crimp on a second pass through the he press. That fixed the problem with feeding. The rounds are now smooth and the case doesn't catch any longer. The feed properly in bot my guns with no problems. Using 5.7 grains of unique. Rounds shoot like factory ammo now. Thanks again for all the replies, great group of people here.
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Old March 17, 2019, 06:17 AM   #14
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Yep, finishing the loading process helps solve problems.
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Old March 17, 2019, 10:19 PM   #15
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What diameter bullets are you using .451 or .452? If they were .452 the powder coating might add a few thousands of an inch to diameter just enough to create your problems. Might be best to run them through a bullet sizing die like this, either in .451 or .452, your choice.
https://leeprecision.com/new-lube-size-kit-.451.html

Never mind I see you solved the problem.
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Old March 21, 2019, 07:43 AM   #16
rodfac
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Quote:
The reason round nose can vary is different makers don't use the same profiles for the ogives. Some are drawn-out ellipses, while others are stubby hemispheres. The stubby ones have to be seated deeper than the long ones do. The cast RN's that I have all have a small shoulder. If you can see a shoulder on yours, it can stick out of the case mouth. The photo below is a little more sticking out than average, but the barrel-as-gauge will tell you what your gun likes. When the gun is an unkown, the starting point is usually to have the shoulder about a thumbnail thickness (around 0.020") forward of a full length (0.898") case. Most cases are a little shorter and you can adjust the shoulder position accordingly.
This is excellent advice from UncleNick. Pay particular attention to the "thumbnail' thickness of full dia. lead exposed above the cartridge case mouth. That bit of lead serves to smooth out any tendency of the case mouth to hang up on a less than sterling chamber. When you eject the round, and find the beginings of rifling marks on the lead, you'll probably have to seat the bullet deeper.

With Lyman's excellent 452374 ~230 gr RN, I've seated them from 1.245" to 1.270" with no feeding issues in my Sig 1911 RCS as well as a Sig P220. Lyman recommends a COL of 1.240" BTW, with this cast bullet. I've used Winchester 231 almost exclusively with it, loading charges from 4.9 gr to 5.5 grains with excellent accuracy at close to military ball 230 gr velocities. Given one choice for loading, I'd go with 1.260", paying close attention to the taper crimp and that little "thumbnail" of exposed, full dia. lead.

Some lead alloy bullets of the RN persuasion will require you to taper crimp onto the ogive of the bullet due to their length, and may take some experimentation to find a good compromise between COL, taper crimp demands, and feeding reliability. Lyman's 452374 is one of these...designed as a direct replacement for the military hard ball bullet, it's a bit longer in the nose section than the military one. I taper crimp it onto the ogive and use long COL's as a result.

Lastly, I don't push lead alloy bullets in my 1911's, looking instead for reliability and accuracy over speed. I carry with factory rounds, for potential legal issues, but practice with lead alloy.

As always, consult a manual, then work up to the above loads after considering your gun's condition and the pressure implications.

HTH's Rod
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Last edited by rodfac; March 21, 2019 at 07:58 AM.
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Old March 21, 2019, 12:14 PM   #17
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Let's try VERY SIMPLE first.......

The first time I did powder coating I too had most of the first batch jam hard in both my Glock and my Carbine.

Did you put the powder coated rounds back through a sizing die after cooling? If not I'd hazard a guess the rounds are now 456 to 458 in size and sticking in the bore.

Spec the projectiles.

One tell is if you had flakes of the powder coat polymer scraped off my the case when seating the projectile. If you put a strong flare on your cases to help ease the projectile in, this may not happen.
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Old March 21, 2019, 12:45 PM   #18
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A nice taper crimp fixes a lot of ACP issues. I find the powder coating fad has created a lot of unnecessary issues too.
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