How to make safe corroded rifle reloads

[WmMunny]

I’ve got a bunch of highly corroded old IMR 4895 .308 reloads I’m trying to make safe for disposal. I pulled the bullets but the powder has semi-solidified and won’t loosen or dump out. .

If I soak the cases— in tap water, ocean water, WD40, motor oil, or something— for a week or two, would that permanently neutralize the powder and primers?

[Jim Watson]

Not really.
How big a bunch? I have thrown a few doubtful cartridges in the trash. Haven't heard of a garbage volcano at the landfill yet.

[rodfac]

If I soak the cases— in tap water, ocean water, WD40, motor oil, or something— for a week or two, would that permanently neutralize the powder and primers?

Most likely, but the best of the three would be oil of some sort. This assumes you've pulled the bullets as you stated. Rod

[Shadow9mm]

Could you put them in an empty vibratory tumbler and shake the powder loose? Or wet tumble?

[Sevens]

I like the idea of trying the vibratory tumbler, but here is another idea:

If the bullets are out of the case, why not chamber a round (outdoors of course) and squeeze the trigger? Even if the powder refuses to ignite the primer is almost surely live and it should do a fine job of blasting that powder wad out.

Of course you’d want to pull the bolt and get eyes on the bore to be sure.

[ballardw]

Originally Posted by Sevens

If the bullets are out of the case, why not chamber a round (outdoors of course) and squeeze the trigger? Even if the powder refuses to ignite the primer is almost surely live and it should do a fine job of blasting that powder wad out.

I think this might be time to also read post #26 in this thread:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...=614825&page=2

Which describes some things that may be going on with corroded ammo and why firing may not be a good idea.

[44 AMP]

Fire PIT...burn barrel....and a bit of distance...

With the bullets pulled, there is nothing to build pressure in the case. The powder will burn and the primers will pop (or not) without real risk to anyone, (assuming you're smart enough not to stand over the fire...)

Once burnt, its harmless, and if it doesn't burn, ...its not going to, so again, harmless.

alternate method, small stiff rod to insert into the case to break up the clumps, dump it out, toss it (the nitrates do good things for the lawn) a bit labor intensive, but will work.

tumbling the cases with stuck powder (with the bullets removed) might work. Might not work 100%. I'd recommend removing your usual tumbling media, first, if you're going to try that, though...

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Fire PIT...burn barrel....and a bit of distance...

With the bullets pulled, there is nothing to build pressure in the case. The powder will burn and the primers will pop (or not) without real risk to anyone, (assuming you're smart enough not to stand over the fire...)

Once burnt, its harmless, and if it doesn't burn, ...its not going to, so again, harmless.

alternate method, small stiff rod to insert into the case to break up the clumps, dump it out, toss it (the nitrates do good things for the lawn) a bit labor intensive, but will work.

tumbling the cases with stuck powder (with the bullets removed) might work. Might not work 100%. I'd recommend removing your usual tumbling media, first, if you're going to try that, though...

True, but wouldnt a fire pit anneal the heads making the cases worthless?

[Unclenick]

There is a good chance the cases are worthless now, having been internally de-zincified by the acid from the powder breakdown. Per the other thread linked to, it isn't uncommon for them to become completely corroded-through when the powder is in this state.

I can think of more complicated disposal methods than fire, but none are worth the trouble since you can't count on salvaging anything. You could soak them in a strong baking soda solution to neutralize the acid to stop them from inducing rust or corrosion in the objects around them, and maybe it would fizz enough to drive some of the powder out. No guarantees, though, with the powder in a lump state. Soaking in acetone would eventually dissolve the powder. You could etch the cases off of the powder lumps with another acid. But all these things would cost money or possibly, with the exception of the baking soda solution, cause some other unwanted reaction. Fire is still best. You can also call your local fire department and see if they can take them for disposal. In some places, they will.

[44 AMP]

True, but wouldnt a fire pit anneal the heads making the cases worthless?

The cases are corroded, they're already worthless.

Additionally, using a chemical solution, acid or whatever leaves you with the (hazardous) liquid to dispose of, as well.

Fire is simple, relatively safe and very effective. I wouldn't dump a bucket full of them in at once, (cause the burning powder might "flare" a bit and the primers might "pop") and you can rake the metal out of the ashes for recycle if desired.

[WmMunny]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

Could you put them in an empty vibratory tumbler and shake the powder loose? Or wet tumble?

Don't have a wet tumbler and I wouldn't be comfortable putting likely-compromised primers and powder in an expensive vibrator...

Originally Posted by Sevens

If the bullets are out of the case, why not chamber a round (outdoors of course) and squeeze the trigger? Even if the powder refuses to ignite the primer is almost surely live and it should do a fine job of blasting that powder wad out.

Of course you’d want to pull the bolt and get eyes on the bore to be sure.

I don't think I'd want to try to cam/force one of those green crudded-up monsters into my rifle...

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Fire PIT...burn barrel....and a bit of distance...

With the bullets pulled, there is nothing to build pressure in the case. The powder will burn and the primers will pop (or not) without real risk to anyone, (assuming you're smart enough not to stand over the fire...)

Once burnt, its harmless, and if it doesn't burn, ...its not going to, so again, harmless.

alternate method, small stiff rod to insert into the case to break up the clumps, dump it out, toss it (the nitrates do good things for the lawn) a bit labor intensive, but will work.

tumbling the cases with stuck powder (with the bullets removed) might work. Might not work 100%. I'd recommend removing your usual tumbling media, first, if you're going to try that, though...

Thanks but I don't have a suitable burn location and wouldn't be comfortable pushing a rod down into the case.

[reynolds357]

If it was me, I would dig a 2 foot deep hole with the post hole diggers out in woods by a tree, pour them in and cover them up decomposes into good fertilizer. . If that violates some law I don't know about, don't do it.

[Mike Irwin]

Pull the bullets and throw everything in the trash.

There's no danger.

There's no need to remove the powder from the cases.

[Unclenick]

Per post #1, he's already pulled the bullets. As I said before, he can probably drop them off at the local firehouse and they'll take care of it the way they usually will old, unwanted fireworks, but he'd have to call first. I looked to see if my state had any prohibition against munitions in a landfill, but I couldn't spot any, so your solution would be OK where I am, AFAIK.

[Jim Watson]

My PD and FD were not interested in disposing of damaged ammunition.

[Aguila Blanca]

Where I live, during the summer months there's a haz-mat drop-off every Saturday morning in the parking lot behind the municipal water company offices. They take pretty much anything. The OP might try Googling hazardous waste disposal for his geographic area.

[rclark]

You've pulled the bullets, Just through 'em in the trash. No need to over think this.

[7.62 man]

I dispose of all the dud ammo at our range.
If you have pulled the bullets & the powder won't dump out it's probably Cordite type of powder. It will have a cardboard cover over the rod powder. Just pull the cardboard out of the case with a long needle & dump the powder it will look like this. The old .303 Brit has a lot of this.

[Mike Irwin]

IMR 4895 certainly isn't a rod powder like cordite and, as far as I know, .308 was never loaded with cordite powder, either commercially or in its 7.62x51 military configuration.

Decaying nitrocellulose powder can, in some instances, clump. I've found a couple rounds in my personal collection that have done so. In one, an old .30-30 Winchester from probably the 1920s, the powder had turned into a sticky VERY acrid smelling mess that ate its way through the case.

[RoyceP]

Originally Posted by 7.62 man

I dispose of all the dud ammo at our range.
If you have pulled the bullets & the powder won't dump out it's probably Cordite type of powder. It will have a cardboard cover over the rod powder. Just pull the cardboard out of the case with a long needle & dump the powder it will look like this. The old .303 Brit has a lot of this.

He said the powder is IMR 4895 so that's not Cordite.

A friend bought a .303 Enfield rifle at a gun show in the 1980's. It came with a thousand rounds of ammo that was dated 1917. We had several that just went "Click", a few that went "Bang" and a majority that would go "Click" .............."Sizzle"..........."Bang".

It was scary stuff. I don't recall how he disposed of the ammo but he did. At the time we thught it might be cordite filled.

[44 AMP]

The British adopted Cordite and used it in the .303 beginning about 1892. Cordite was their standard powder from then through the end of WWII, and I think, stayed the standard military rifle powder until the British replaced the .303 with the 7.62 NATO.

In Britain (and with British writers) "Cordite" became the generic name used for all gunpowder, the way Kleenex became generic for tissues in the US.

Even many US writers have used the phrase "the smell of cordite" describing gunsmoke, gunfire. etc., even when actual Cordite was not involved.

It does have a smell unique, and noticeably different from other powders. Cordite was used in Britian and the Empire/Commonwealth, but not in the US.
US made .303 British ammo was loaded with an IMR type powder.

Decaying nitrocellulose powder can, in some instances, clump.

Absolutely! and, it doesn't have to be really really old, it just has to be decaying.

About 2008 a friend bought 500rnds of 7.62 NATO foreign surplus. It came in a large carboard box that was more duct tape than box. The ammo inside was loose packed in a plastic bag that crumbled into shards when opened. The ammo was dirty, dusty and there was actual SAND in the bag.

Headstamp codes indicated Israeli manufacture, dates from 98 to 01. we fired 100rnds through his AR10. 11% failed to fire. Of the rest, 17% of the cases cracked on firing. (and had a "tang" smell to them).

I pulled down the rest. The powder had decayed, clumping, looking grey with some white in it, and often a clump stuck to the base of the bullet, with the blue-green color of corroding copper....

The bullets, when cleaned up, were fine. I tossed the rest, none of it, cases, powder or primers were suitable for reuse. That ammo was only about 10 years old, or less, but HAD gone bad. My friend remarked it was the first time he had ever bought ammo sight unseen, and also the last time he ever would.

[Jim Watson]

British military ammunition loaded with nitrocellulose has a Z suffix.
Mk 7 - Cordite
Mk 7Z - nitrocellulose.

[Unclenick]

I read that WC852 was the first spherical propellant in use during WWII and that it was used specifically in 303 British ammo we were reloading to supply Britain. It's nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin plus deterrent and stabilizer. Would that have had the z suffix as well, or did we headstamp it differently?

[Mike Irwin]

" Would that have had the z suffix as well, or did we headstamp it differently?"

As I understand it anything NOT loaded with cordite powder would have been marked Z to denote nitrocellulose powder.

I believe that at various times nitrocellulose powders were loaded in the US, in Canada, and in Britain. Not all of those powders would have been WC852 or its equivalent. I have heard, but have never verified, that Dominion obtained much of its nitrocellulose powder from Du Pont, while the British used powders manufactured domestically.

Strictly speaking, however, Cordite is a nitrocellulose powder, so I suppose the Z marking really means nitrocellulose powder OTHER than Cordite.

[Mike Irwin]

Hum...

I was just doing some more reading, and Wikipedia is claiming that .303 British ammo was loaded with specification WC846, not 852, and 852 was specified for full-load .30-06 ammo.