Second hand ammo - Page 3

Classic12 · March 8, 2022, 04:07 PM

Switzerland has a lot of shooting associations with outdoor ranges which are supported by the various counties. Those are non profit setups and allow citizens to hone their shooting skills outside of their military service, both for rifles (300 meters) and pistols (25 and 50 meters). Soldiers can also do their qualification shooting at those ranges.

The army provides ammo, GP 11 (7.5 Swiss) & GP 90 (5.56 NATO) for rifles and 7.65 & 9 mm parabellum for pistols, all at 35 cents per round. The clubs put their orders in in December and pick up their ammo in February, before the start of the season, which runs from March to October.

I picked up 4000 9mm and 8000 7.65mm for my club at the army arsenal.

86 associations pick up their order over two days, so there is some stock there

Electrod47 · March 8, 2022, 06:14 PM

Are you trying to give us a heart attack or a hard on??

Classic12 · March 12, 2022, 04:07 PM

A guy contacted me, he had some Swiss military ammo he had no use for, so I picked up 960 rounds of 7.65 mm parabellum (.30 Luger), 120 rounds of GP11 (7.5 X 55 mm Swiss) and some collectible GP11 and 9mm (red boxes) for $ 350.-

There’s also a growing sense of panic, with fear that ammo prices will shoot up and availability issues, so we decided to organise a group buy for the club, and I picked up 30’000 rounds at the LGS for $ 7200, i.e. $ 240 / 1000 rds of Geco 124 grains.

The club safes are almost full, about 45’000 rounds not counting .22 lr

FITASC · March 12, 2022, 05:43 PM

Do you have to keep it at the club? Is there a limit on how much you can keep in your home?

Classic12 · March 12, 2022, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FITASC

Do you have to keep it at the club? Is there a limit on how much you can keep in your home?

No limit, I have plenty at home

This lot is for sharing amongst club members so it’s easier to keep it in the vault under the range.

Classic12 · April 27, 2022, 07:54 AM

My favourite LGS is specialised in second hand weapons, he buys from estates, windows or retiring collectors. More often than not there’s ammo with it which he sells me at very reasonable prices

Picked up this haul last month

Tons of .22

Stocked up on 7.62 X 39 for my new Kalashnikovs

From a private seller

And the last crate of Igman (ex Yougoslavia) from another LGS

Some Swiss milsurp, 7.65, 9 mm and old GP11 (7.5 X 55 Swiss) from another private seller

Some old .45 ACP, real cheap, $ 220 for this lot

And some GP 90 (5.56 NATO Swiss), 30-30 Winchester and .223 Remington SP

This seller also had some mags I picked up. Three of the Colt including the 20 rds are Vietnam era / sixties

Classic12 · June 30, 2022, 02:42 PM

LGS gifted me a few boxes of old ammo, 9mm, .32 ACP, .25 ACP and .22 short

Then I bought this typically Swiss curiosity, a can of GP11 “Taschenmunition”, or pocket ammunition. As you may know, the Swiss militia soldiers kept their rifles at home, and were therefore given a sealed can of 24 rounds, to be only used in case of mobilisation and in order to reach a meeting point.

Precisely this reads :

Guidelines for pocket ammunition
This pocket ammunition is intended exclusively for personal protection during active duty, especially before reaching the designated duty station.
The pocket ammunition is to be presented at each service and during communal inspections.
Anyone who opens the box improperly or misuses the ammunition will be punished in accordance with the order concerning ammunition.
Federal Military Department, Bern 1970

Quigs37 · June 30, 2022, 03:57 PM

Is there a time/years limit you can keep ammunition before it expires?

Classic12 · September 22, 2022, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quigs37

Is there a time/years limit you can keep ammunition before it expires?

If it’s well stored not really. I’ve shot stuff from the 50ies

Classic12 · September 22, 2022, 05:47 AM

The gentleman who sold me the Rem 700 VTR also had a case of Swiss GP90 (5.56 NATO) for a reasonable price ($350.-)

He was also kind to gift me 260 rds of Barnaul .223

And I bought some 9mm subsonic and .30M1 ammo from two different private sellers

**4V50 Gary** · September 23, 2022, 07:54 PM

Classic 12 - are you Nicholas Cage/Warlord or just Samuel Cumings (Interarms).

Classic12 · September 24, 2022, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4V50 Gary

Classic 12 - are you Nicholas Cage/Warlord or just Samuel Cumings (Interarms).

Haha neither, just a Swiss citizen having fun

But I did not know Sam Cummings and I just spent half an hour reading about him, fascinating stuff

**4V50 Gary** · September 24, 2022, 09:30 PM

Sam Cumings was the person the Nicholas Cage Warlord character was very loosely based on.

**JohnKSa** · September 24, 2022, 10:25 PM

That 1940s vintage .45ACP might be corrosive. I think that it changed over to non-corrosive sometime in the early 1950s.

stagpanther · September 25, 2022, 07:31 AM

Now all you need is a train ticket to the Ukrainian border.

SIGSHR · September 26, 2022, 05:07 PM

Julian Hatcher wrote that Army match shooters had to use up existing stocks before they could use the newer ammo-he said that took until 1936. IIRC the M-1 Carbine was the first US military round to be loaded only with non-corrosive primers.

**Mike Irwin** · September 27, 2022, 06:45 AM

"That 1940s vintage .45ACP might be corrosive. I think that it changed over to non-corrosive sometime in the early 1950s. "

1940s era .45 ACP loaded by American manufacturers or Government arsenals IS MOST DEFINITELY corrosive.

The ONLY WW II era ammunition that was loaded exclusively with non-corrosive primers was .30 M1 Carbine.

**4V50 Gary** · September 27, 2022, 09:08 AM

Thanks Mike. I wasn't aware of that.

BTW, I love that Swiss round can of ammunition.

Classic12 · October 23, 2022, 09:14 AM

Back in April I ordered 20 boxes of Geco .38 spl wad cutter for $ 18.-/box. Only 4 arrived as they were out of stock, the rest was on back order. It finally came with the invoice at the same price despite the general increase of ammo prices. Great shop to deal with.

Also got 150 rds of .357 Sig for $50.- from a private seller

And 224 rds of Swiss army 7.65 mm Parabellum (.30 Luger) for $60.- from another private seller

Paul B. · October 23, 2022, 03:20 PM

"That 1940s vintage .45ACP might be corrosive. I think that it changed over to non-corrosive sometime in the early 1950s. "

1940s era .45 ACP loaded by American manufacturers or Government arsenals IS MOST DEFINITELY corrosive."

Not sure when the change to non-corrosive primers Occurred but have heard, 1951, 52, 53. Seems like no one has a clue for sure. Me? I play it safe and consider anything up to 1953 to be corrosive and treat it accordingly. 1954 on I consider safe. I know there's some 30-06 match ammo that was made sometime in the 1960s that was corrosive. There may have been some .308 match as well. All was made at a government arsenal, probably Lake City.
Paul B.

**JohnKSa** · October 23, 2022, 06:05 PM

Quote:

I ordered 20 boxes of Geco .38 spl wad cutter for $ 18.-/box...

How do you like GECO ammo? It shows up in the U.S. from time to time, usually at pretty good prices, but it's hard to find folks who have had experience with it.

Classic12 · October 24, 2022, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

How do you like GECO ammo? It shows up in the U.S. from time to time, usually at pretty good prices, but it's hard to find folks who have had experience with it.

I have shot tons of it in various calibers over the years, mostly 9mm but also 223, 45, 38 etc..

I’ve always found it to be consistent and accurate.

**JohnKSa** · October 24, 2022, 10:19 PM

That's good to know, thanks for the information!

Classic12 · October 27, 2022, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Classic12

Then I bought this typically Swiss curiosity, a can of GP11 “Taschenmunition”, or pocket ammunition. As you may know, the Swiss militia soldiers kept their rifles at home, and were therefore given a sealed can of 24 rounds, to be only used in case of mobilisation and in order to reach a meeting point.

Precisely this reads :

Guidelines for pocket ammunition
This pocket ammunition is intended exclusively for personal protection during active duty, especially before reaching the designated duty station.
The pocket ammunition is to be presented at each service and during communal inspections.
Anyone who opens the box improperly or misuses the ammunition will be punished in accordance with the order concerning ammunition.
Federal Military Department, Bern 1970

I recently bought the modern version of the pocket ammunition GP 90 (Swiss version of the 5.56 NATO)

**JohnKSa** · October 27, 2022, 09:34 PM

Very interesting. Is there significant collector value to such items?

March 12, 2022, 05:43 PM	#54
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	Do you have to keep it at the club? Is there a limit on how much you can keep in your home? __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

September 23, 2022, 07:54 PM	#61
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	Classic 12 - are you Nicholas Cage/Warlord or just Samuel Cumings (Interarms). __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

September 24, 2022, 09:30 PM	#63
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	Sam Cumings was the person the Nicholas Cage Warlord character was very loosely based on. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

September 24, 2022, 10:25 PM	#64
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,990	That 1940s vintage .45ACP might be corrosive. I think that it changed over to non-corrosive sometime in the early 1950s. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

September 25, 2022, 07:31 AM	#65
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,789	Now all you need is a train ticket to the Ukrainian border. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

March 8, 2022, 04:07 PM	#51
Classic12 Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2020 Posts: 696	Switzerland has a lot of shooting associations with outdoor ranges which are supported by the various counties. Those are non profit setups and allow citizens to hone their shooting skills outside of their military service, both for rifles (300 meters) and pistols (25 and 50 meters). Soldiers can also do their qualification shooting at those ranges. The army provides ammo, GP 11 (7.5 Swiss) & GP 90 (5.56 NATO) for rifles and 7.65 & 9 mm parabellum for pistols, all at 35 cents per round. The clubs put their orders in in December and pick up their ammo in February, before the start of the season, which runs from March to October. I picked up 4000 9mm and 8000 7.65mm for my club at the army arsenal. 86 associations pick up their order over two days, so there is some stock there

March 8, 2022, 06:14 PM	#52
Electrod47 Member Join Date: April 27, 2021 Location: SE Mississippi Posts: 92	Are you trying to give us a heart attack or a hard on??

March 12, 2022, 04:07 PM	#53
Classic12 Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2020 Posts: 696	A guy contacted me, he had some Swiss military ammo he had no use for, so I picked up 960 rounds of 7.65 mm parabellum (.30 Luger), 120 rounds of GP11 (7.5 X 55 mm Swiss) and some collectible GP11 and 9mm (red boxes) for $ 350.- There’s also a growing sense of panic, with fear that ammo prices will shoot up and availability issues, so we decided to organise a group buy for the club, and I picked up 30’000 rounds at the LGS for $ 7200, i.e. $ 240 / 1000 rds of Geco 124 grains. The club safes are almost full, about 45’000 rounds not counting .22 lr

April 27, 2022, 07:54 AM	#56
Classic12 Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2020 Posts: 696	My favourite LGS is specialised in second hand weapons, he buys from estates, windows or retiring collectors. More often than not there’s ammo with it which he sells me at very reasonable prices Picked up this haul last month Tons of .22 Stocked up on 7.62 X 39 for my new Kalashnikovs From a private seller And the last crate of Igman (ex Yougoslavia) from another LGS Some Swiss milsurp, 7.65, 9 mm and old GP11 (7.5 X 55 Swiss) from another private seller Some old .45 ACP, real cheap, $ 220 for this lot And some GP 90 (5.56 NATO Swiss), 30-30 Winchester and .223 Remington SP This seller also had some mags I picked up. Three of the Colt including the 20 rds are Vietnam era / sixties

June 30, 2022, 02:42 PM	#57
Classic12 Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2020 Posts: 696	LGS gifted me a few boxes of old ammo, 9mm, .32 ACP, .25 ACP and .22 short Then I bought this typically Swiss curiosity, a can of GP11 “Taschenmunition”, or pocket ammunition. As you may know, the Swiss militia soldiers kept their rifles at home, and were therefore given a sealed can of 24 rounds, to be only used in case of mobilisation and in order to reach a meeting point. Precisely this reads : Guidelines for pocket ammunition This pocket ammunition is intended exclusively for personal protection during active duty, especially before reaching the designated duty station. The pocket ammunition is to be presented at each service and during communal inspections. Anyone who opens the box improperly or misuses the ammunition will be punished in accordance with the order concerning ammunition. Federal Military Department, Bern 1970

June 30, 2022, 03:57 PM	#58
Quigs37 Junior Member Join Date: June 26, 2020 Posts: 5	Is there a time/years limit you can keep ammunition before it expires?

September 22, 2022, 05:47 AM	#60
Classic12 Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2020 Posts: 696	The gentleman who sold me the Rem 700 VTR also had a case of Swiss GP90 (5.56 NATO) for a reasonable price ($350.-) He was also kind to gift me 260 rds of Barnaul .223 And I bought some 9mm subsonic and .30M1 ammo from two different private sellers

September 26, 2022, 05:07 PM	#66
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Julian Hatcher wrote that Army match shooters had to use up existing stocks before they could use the newer ammo-he said that took until 1936. IIRC the M-1 Carbine was the first US military round to be loaded only with non-corrosive primers.

September 27, 2022, 06:45 AM	#67
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"That 1940s vintage .45ACP might be corrosive. I think that it changed over to non-corrosive sometime in the early 1950s. " 1940s era .45 ACP loaded by American manufacturers or Government arsenals IS MOST DEFINITELY corrosive. The ONLY WW II era ammunition that was loaded exclusively with non-corrosive primers was .30 M1 Carbine. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 27, 2022, 09:08 AM	#68
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	Thanks Mike. I wasn't aware of that. BTW, I love that Swiss round can of ammunition. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

October 23, 2022, 09:14 AM	#69
Classic12 Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2020 Posts: 696	Back in April I ordered 20 boxes of Geco .38 spl wad cutter for $ 18.-/box. Only 4 arrived as they were out of stock, the rest was on back order. It finally came with the invoice at the same price despite the general increase of ammo prices. Great shop to deal with. Also got 150 rds of .357 Sig for $50.- from a private seller And 224 rds of Swiss army 7.65 mm Parabellum (.30 Luger) for $60.- from another private seller

October 23, 2022, 03:20 PM	#70
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	"That 1940s vintage .45ACP might be corrosive. I think that it changed over to non-corrosive sometime in the early 1950s. " 1940s era .45 ACP loaded by American manufacturers or Government arsenals IS MOST DEFINITELY corrosive." Not sure when the change to non-corrosive primers Occurred but have heard, 1951, 52, 53. Seems like no one has a clue for sure. Me? I play it safe and consider anything up to 1953 to be corrosive and treat it accordingly. 1954 on I consider safe. I know there's some 30-06 match ammo that was made sometime in the 1960s that was corrosive. There may have been some .308 match as well. All was made at a government arsenal, probably Lake City. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

October 24, 2022, 10:19 PM	#73
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,990	That's good to know, thanks for the information! __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

October 27, 2022, 09:34 PM	#75
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,990	Very interesting. Is there significant collector value to such items? __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?